Author Topic: Found! Power Spots are confirmed!  (Read 12840 times)

Leebot

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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2005, 03:43:39 pm »
Quote from: GrayLensman
Let's not argue semantics.


So, now we're not being literal? As opposed to when we were arguing about Spekkio's speech?

I'd also like to point out that people usually say this when they know they can't argue with it directly, so just skirt the issue. There is one valid argument you could make, but you probably wouldn't like it if I started arguing "your side" of the debate.

Hadriel

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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2005, 08:51:38 pm »
Do it anyway.  If you've got a relevant piece of information, throw it out here and let's see what we can make of it.

I'm rather fond of the practice -- it tends to bring more complete solutions than if I just stick to one argument.  I did it just yesterday, in fact, in an argument about the economics of the Empire.  I argued for two positions in as many posts.  And the debate actually got somewhere.

Leebot

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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2005, 09:51:27 am »
Alright, then. The counter-argument is that this character likely wouldn't think through all the possible connotations of what he says and would just say it, so we're overanalyzing.

The counter-counter-argument is that, if you don't take accents into account, everyone in the game speaks with perfect grammar. Writers take this small liberty in order to make it easier for the audience to follow. One effect of this is that whatever a character says likely has been thought over deeply for connotations and implications, so this argument does have merit.

razor's edge

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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2005, 02:32:16 pm »
The word 'generate' is rarely associated with natural pheonomenon. We don't say things like, "the clouds generate rain" or "trees generate leaves".

Leebot

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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2005, 03:12:33 pm »
Generate is usually associated with some form of energy, but mostly electrical. Either way, we're talking about a natural phenomena (energy itself makes up everything in the universe, so we could say it's the most natural phenomena). Since the usage of the term is so limited, we may even be able to associate "Elements" with "Energy."

GrayLensman

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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2005, 06:50:48 pm »
Unfortunately I don't have my Oxford English Dictionary, but this is good enough.

From Dictionary.com:

Quote
gen·er·ate   Audio pronunciation of "generate" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (jn-rt)
tr.v. gen·er·at·ed, gen·er·at·ing, gen·er·ates

1. a. To bring into being; give rise to: generate a discussion.
    b. To produce as a result of a chemical or physical process: generate heat.
2. To engender (offspring); procreate.
3. Mathematics. To form (a geometric figure) by describing a curve or surface.
4. Computer Science. To produce (a program) by instructing a computer to follow given parameters with a skeleton program.
5. Linguistics. To construct (a sentence, for example), as in generative grammar.

[Latin generre, genert-, to produce, from genus, gener-, birth. See gen- in Indo-European Roots.]

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2005, 07:14:46 pm »
What? I heard that the CC translation wasn't so hot, but I don't know if it had much to do with story-elements or not...I know that a lot of the Elements are fugged...and that Harle doesn't use a French accent.

Faulce

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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2005, 09:33:41 pm »
Quote from: GrayLensman
Unfortunately I don't have my Oxford English Dictionary, but this is good enough.

From Dictionary.com:

Quote
gen·er·ate   Audio pronunciation of "generate" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (jn-rt)
tr.v. gen·er·at·ed, gen·er·at·ing, gen·er·ates

1. a. To bring into being; give rise to: generate a discussion.
    b. To produce as a result of a chemical or physical process: generate heat.
2. To engender (offspring); procreate.
3. Mathematics. To form (a geometric figure) by describing a curve or surface.
4. Computer Science. To produce (a program) by instructing a computer to follow given parameters with a skeleton program.
5. Linguistics. To construct (a sentence, for example), as in generative grammar.

[Latin generre, genert-, to produce, from genus, gener-, birth. See gen- in Indo-European Roots.]

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


"Ancient lore reveals that
the Dragonites knew of
certain land formations
they called Power Spots.

There they are said to
have used the natural
energy of the planet to
generate Elements."

word replacement time!!:

There they are said to have used the natural energy of the planet to bring Elements into being.

There they are said to have used the natural energy of the planet to  produce Elements as a result of a chemical or physical process.

Well, assuming "they" refers to the Dragonians, Elements were created through artificial means. Unless generate was really the wrong word to put there, they must not be natural.  The Dragonians did "something" and brought the elements into being. Before the "something" occurred, only the Power Spots were there.

Leebot

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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2005, 10:55:06 pm »
But by that logic, since a power station generates electricity, electricity can't be natural. I'll be sure to inform the government that lightning rods are unnecessary as the natural world is certainly uncapable of producing large amounts of electricity on its own--certainly not enough to create, say a bolt of energy.

Faulce

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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2005, 11:18:09 pm »
Quote from: Leebot
But by that logic, since a power station generates electricity, electricity can't be natural. I'll be sure to inform the government that lightning rods are unnecessary as the natural world is certainly uncapable of producing large amounts of electricity on its own--certainly not enough to create, say a bolt of energy.


Name an element that is not tied in with the Dragonians and/or Power Spots.

razor's edge

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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2005, 11:18:19 pm »
But we never see any signs of Elements forming naturally. Nor does anyone mention them forming naturally. For example, in FF7(which seems to be the most-often-referred-to-parallel) there's materia formed by man in reactors, and then there's materia formed by nature found in hidden caves and such around the world.  We don't find Elements growing in a cave anywhere. They're found in chests and from monsters and such.

Leebot

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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2005, 12:27:00 am »
We also don't see them being made; they're just there, left over from when the Dragonians made/found/produced them.

Faulce

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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2005, 05:01:35 pm »
Quote from: Leebot
We also don't see them being made; they're just there, left over from when the Dragonians made/found/produced them.

But we know that they are made using the natural energy found in power spots. If they were formed naturally, wouldnt we run across some on the Zenan continent? Obviously not in the same form (game designs) but what about an equivalent? Can you think of any? I can think of none at the present moment. Again, its possible that nothing like it may exist because of the difference between the games, but its worth an observation.

Leebot

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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2005, 06:59:41 pm »
Or maybe they're all over the place but Crono and co. don't know how to recognize them (particularly possible if they are more ethereal in nature).

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2005, 07:25:25 pm »
Chronopolis and the Dragonians originated the system, and El Nido is bound to the success of the heroes of time. They wouldn't have existed in Chrono Trigger.