Author Topic: Magus's Weakness to the Masamune  (Read 21066 times)

razor's edge

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2005, 10:36:19 pm »
I've recently come to believe that Magus's weakness to the Masamune and the Mammon Machine's weakness to it are for different reasons.

Outside the Magic Cave...
Quote
Frog: Mine name is Glenn!  Cyrus's hopes and dreams... And now the Masamune...  Forthwith I shall slay Magus and restore honor!

After defeating Magus in his castle...
Quote
Magus: W.. what have you done to the Masamune...?

Magus seems to be quite shocked that the Masamune is hurting him so. The Masamune didn't seem to help Cyrus and Glenn 10 years earlier when Cyrus was killed.  This implies that the Masamune was powered by Frog's will, otherwise it would have worked when wielded by Cyrus. This could be an example of the Dreamstone being utilized in a way not Lavos-related, since it was Frog's dream to defeat Magus and thus avenge Cyrus.

Faulce

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2005, 10:45:54 pm »
no... it implies that the fully restored Masamune is somehow stronger that the aged version that Magus last encountered, which makes sense - the original Masamune was apparently fragile for a sword - it was very old.

razor's edge

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2005, 10:51:44 pm »
Just found further support of Frog's will powering the Masamune.
When laying Cyrus's spirit to rest, and the Masamune powers up...
Quote
Masa: Heh heh.
Mune: That's it! That was special!
Masa: Quite. I guess it means that a Hero's power comes from within.
Mune: Mucha metaphysical, man.
Masa: Like, MIND over matter, Mune!
Frog: My... mind?
Mune: Now for a yummy, full-on test!
Masa: It's thrasin' time!
Frog: 'Tis flowing with strength and vigor. Ahh! 'Tis the true identity of the Masamune!! Cyrus, I promise to fulfill your wishes! 'Tis a sad farewell! Onward, all!

Notice they are saying Frog's power with the Masamune comes from within him. Mind over matter. The true identity of the Masamune.

Faulce

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2005, 11:27:18 pm »
Ok.. so the Masamune absorbs from Magus because of Frogs will. You have enough proof, assuming you arent looking at that conversation from the wrong angle. I guess that means that Frog has emotional tension with the Mammon Machine...

so yea, look at the conversation again

razor's edge

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2005, 11:50:31 pm »
Quote from: myself
I've recently come to believe that Magus's weakness to the Masamune and the Mammon Machine's weakness to it are for different reasons.

That's why I said that I don't think the Masamune is absorbing energy from the two for the same reasons.

SilentMartyr

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2005, 11:41:38 am »
I am pretty sure the reason that Magus saw the sword being more powerful was because it was reforged with more dreamstone.

Now about that Non-Legend malarky

Quote
[Young Woman] Only the ancient sword, «Masamune,» can defeat him. And only the Hero can wield it!


Quote
[Young Man] Did you know? They say the mythical Masamune lies deep within the Denadoro mountains. But it's guarded by terrible beasts.


Quote
Frog: The legendary Masamune is required to fight Magus. And I've no right to wield it.



Hmm, while I was searching through the script for quotes to confrim the legend, I found something odd that I don't remeber happening in the game. There were found under battle messages 2.

$3WF9:Masamune absorbs energy...
This was found very deep into the section, right around a lot of Queen Zeal's second form attacks. I am going to check this out tonight, for it might let some insight to this mystery.

razor's edge

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2005, 03:48:02 pm »
Quote from: CTcronoboy
I am pretty sure the reason that Magus saw the sword being more powerful was because it was reforged with more dreamstone.

Now about that Non-Legend malarky

Quote
[Young Woman] Only the ancient sword, «Masamune,» can defeat him. And only the Hero can wield it!


Quote
[Young Man] Did you know? They say the mythical Masamune lies deep within the Denadoro mountains. But it's guarded by terrible beasts.


Quote
Frog: The legendary Masamune is required to fight Magus. And I've no right to wield it.

So it says the Masamune is legendary, but it doesn't say a specific legend about it. Hmm.

True, the Masamune was old, but Cyrus was able to beat Masa & Mune to get the sword, so it's safe to say he was a good swordsman. I don't think that the fight between Cyrus and Glenn vs. Magus and Ozzie would have been a pushover for Magus and Ozzie. Which would mean that Cyrus would have hit Magus with the Masamune at least once before it broke. If Magus was affected by the Masamune just because it was made of Dreamstone, then he would've known it could do that already. Instead, after defeating him in his castle, he is suprised. The sword was made of Dreamstone before it broke and after it was fixed. That is why Frog is the reason the Masamune worked so well on Magus.

Now, for the case of the Mammon Machine, I think that the Masamune absorbing it's energy is an innate ability of the Dreamstone. Think of it like this: You take two car batteries, one fully charged and one much less charged. You hook them up to each other and the fully charged one will, over time, lose power to the less charged one, until they both contain the same amount of energy. I think this is a great comparison, since both the Masamune and the Mammon Machine are made of Dreamstone. It's a simple case of equilibrium. Magus is obviously not made of Dreamstone, hence, the Masamune drains his energy for a completely different reason, which I stated a few posts ago.

SilentMartyr

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2005, 04:14:49 pm »
Quote from: razor's edge

So it says the Masamune is legendary, but it doesn't say a specific legend about it. Hmm.

True, the Masamune was old, but Cyrus was able to beat Masa & Mune to get the sword, so it's safe to say he was a good swordsman. I don't think that the fight between Cyrus and Glenn vs. Magus and Ozzie would have been a pushover for Magus and Ozzie. Which would mean that Cyrus would have hit Magus with the Masamune at least once before it broke. If Magus was affected by the Masamune just because it was made of Dreamstone, then he would've known it could do that already. Instead, after defeating him in his castle, he is suprised. The sword was made of Dreamstone before it broke and after it was fixed. That is why Frog is the reason the Masamune worked so well on Magus.


Okay, so why does it only work on Magus specifically? That is the real question that I am trying to figure out.

SilentMartyr

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2005, 04:15:07 pm »
Quote from: razor's edge

So it says the Masamune is legendary, but it doesn't say a specific legend about it. Hmm.

True, the Masamune was old, but Cyrus was able to beat Masa & Mune to get the sword, so it's safe to say he was a good swordsman. I don't think that the fight between Cyrus and Glenn vs. Magus and Ozzie would have been a pushover for Magus and Ozzie. Which would mean that Cyrus would have hit Magus with the Masamune at least once before it broke. If Magus was affected by the Masamune just because it was made of Dreamstone, then he would've known it could do that already. Instead, after defeating him in his castle, he is suprised. The sword was made of Dreamstone before it broke and after it was fixed. That is why Frog is the reason the Masamune worked so well on Magus.


Okay, so why does it only work on Magus specifically? That is the real question that I am trying to figure out.

razor's edge

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2005, 04:30:17 pm »
Like Masa said--mind over matter. Hero's power comes from within. Frog wants to defeat Magus, he wants the sword to hurt Magus, so it does.

SilentMartyr

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2005, 04:41:38 pm »
But Frog wants to defeat Lavos, and it doesn't do anything there.

razor's edge

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2005, 05:02:18 pm »
Lavos isn't using a magical defence shield like Magus is. Plus Lavos's power is of a much larger scale than Magus's.

V_Translanka

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2005, 07:58:38 pm »
I think it's possible, quite so, that Magus is simply being pompus when he says "what have you done to the Masamune". He can be saying this not because there is any actual change with the Masamune, but only because this time he lost to it's wielder.

razor's edge

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2005, 08:54:16 pm »
Quote from: V_Translanka
I think it's possible, quite so, that Magus is simply being pompus when he says "what have you done to the Masamune". He can be saying this not because there is any actual change with the Masamune, but only because this time he lost to it's wielder.


Possibly, but there are only two instances I can think of where things don't go Magus's way and he seems (to me, at least) genuinely suprised. The first is after defeating him in his castle, and the other is after he reveals himself in the Ocean Palace and his attack on Lavos proves futile.

Magus seems to be pompous very little in the game, but then again, depending on how you interpret it, almost everything he says in the game could be considered pompous.

V_Translanka

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2005, 09:19:01 pm »
Alright, maybe that's not the exact word I was looking for, but at the very least he could be...I dunno...Covering up how badly he was beaten by simply tossing it all of as it being the fact that the Masamune was somehow more powerful that time...