Was there ever a timeline that Lavos never appeared on Earth?

[Fireseal]

Was there ever a timeline that Lavos never appeared on Earth? I know how the player eventually becomes aware that there is a universe where Reptites won the prehistoric war on the Humans, but did the game ever mention if Lavos crashed on Earth in that dimension? Lavos crashing into the Earth helped wiping out the Reptites off the face of the planet, by crashing directly onto the Reptite stronghold, as well as causing the Ice Age, which Reptites being cold-blooded(I'm assuming) most likely not be able to survive through the long cold Ice Age. The Ice Age would not have happened had Lavos not arrived on Earth and not give the Humans an edge for fighting off cold-blooded foes. This just leads me to wonder if at any point in Chrono Cross, hinted that Lavos was non-existant in the Reptite/Dragonian dimension.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Who knows!  That's definitely a possibility.  I know I've heard a lot of similar theories and the theories along those lines seem like some of the more plausible ones.

[DarioEMeloD]

please read this...
I think that would answer your question... if I'm wrong, please ignore me

[Lakonthegreat]

Correct. Lavos was not present in the Dragonian timeline.

[Thought]

please read this...
I think that would answer your question... if I'm wrong, please ignore me

Perhaps I am wrong, but I am aware of no conclusive evidence that says that Lavos was not present in the dragonian dimension. There is a lot of very compelling circumstantial evidence, mind you, but we don't know for sure. Thus the encyclopedia may be a little hasty in its claim.

The very fact that the Reptites continued to exist is a very good indication that Lavos did not fall. But he still could have fallen and they merely survived. The very fact that the Dragonians were not corrupted by Lavos and the Dragon God is almost his antithesis indicates that Lavos was not present during that period. But he may not have been present due to having never fallen or due to having been destroyed previously.

Curiously, if there was a timeline that Lavos never appeared on Earth, that would imply that the timeline was sent to the DBT as it would have been replaced by the timeline in which Lavos did fall.

Huh, that is an interesting implication. If there was a timeline in which Lavos never appeared on earth, then that would require that the timelime must have been altered so that Lavos would appear on earth. That implies that Lavos falling to earth was itself the result of a time traveler.

Either Lavos existed on early in earth's most original timeline, or he came into existence on earth as the result of some unknown force manipulating time.

Of course, it might be that the Dragonian Dimension is significantly different than standard timelines and the two dimensions of CC (which seem to be a curious anomaly).

[Fireseal]

After playing both Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross I started to think if there was only one sole timeline in the Chrono universe, where Lavos did crash into the Earth, caused an Ice Age, destoryed Zeal while sending Janus, Melchior, Gaspar and Belthasar into their respective future dates. The reason for only one timeline? Not once at any point in the timeline where a point in history was changed, Janus and the three Gurus vanishing from 12000BC only to appear at different time periods, all after 12000BC, is part of the unchanged original timeline. In theory, moving forward in time makes you part of history, moving backward in time changes it. And there were no changes in history... Until the Entity decided to send Marle from 1000AD to 600AD. With that in mind, that action alone would've caused a dimension to divert from the original timeline where Leene was supposed to be found without any interruption. (If you want to get technical about it, then perhaps right after Marle was sent back in time everything from 600AD and onward should've been sent to the Darkness Beyond Time? But I won't talk about it now.)

This is my imagined original timeline from past to end of time, uninterrupted, most of it explained by dialogue from Magus at North Cape right after the fall of Zeal;

Before 12000BC - No recorded history before 12000BC from the perspective of the original timeline. Sometime before 12000BC, we know that Lavos crashed onto the Earth. Sure we all know that it was in 65000000BC, but take in mind this was after Crono and co. traveled back into that distant past. We know it crashed, but not sure when during the original timeline. We(the player and the humans of the game) do know that it is an entity that is with great power, but only we the player's perspective, know that it came from outer space. There was an Ice Age that started and we assume(like what happened to our own history) that dinosaurs died.

12000BC - Mammon Machine is completed and shortly afterward Lavos is summoned. Janus and the three Gurus are forced sent to future time periods, from Magus'  where it becomes part of the original timeline. Schala(maybe?) uses her magic to escape death(with Zeal?) from Lavos. Magic eventually became extinct for use by humans except for wizards(as told by Spekkio) but you never saw them except for that freaky dude with no chest body in the tent at the Millenial fair. It does not seem

12000BC~580AD(maybe?) - Janus appears in the middle ages. His absence for the last approx. 12600 years is part of the original timeline.

Whenever Janus appeared~600AD - Janus becomes Magus under the supervision of the Mystics, as told by Magus.

600AD - Magus' army wage war on the kingdom of Guardia, the kingdom of Guardia won, as told by some dialogue before going into the Millenial Fair at the start of the game.

12000BC~1000AD - Melchior appears in 1000AD shown from the scene in Magus' story. His absence of exactly 13000 years is part of the original timeline since he traveled from the past.

1000AD - Guardia is in a time of peace and prosperity. The Millenial Fair is organized. Marle mysteriously disappears from the timeline. (Not really sure if I should put Crono and Lucca disappearing as well in the original timeline, since technically them going back in time would be already part of the changed timeline from the moment Marle appeared in 600AD.)

1000AD~2300AD - From the original timeline's perspective, we do not know if the Day of Lavos occured in 1999AD. Remember that 1999AD definitely happened after Crono and Lucca saved Leene and brought Marle back with them to 1000AD. But the apocalypse definitely did happen because...

12000BC~2300AD - Belthasar appears in 2300AD shown from the scene in Magus' story. His absence of exactly 14300 years is part of the original timeline since he traveled from the past. The era appears to be in ruins. Something at one point in time that shook the world made civilization in shambles.

12000BC~End of Time - Gaspar appears at the End of Time, whether it be from the perspective of humans or something greater or lesser, shown from the scene in Magus' Story. He just vanished from history and never returned is now part of the original timeline.


...Does this make sense on how this original timeline would be envisioned? Before Marle gets sent back in time? It always hurts my head talking about this game. I got very technical. lol


Now this is the timeline after Marle gets sent back in time;

Everything up until 600AD - Remains the same.

600AD - Leene is at one point captured by mystics and a search party is sent. Search party finds Marle whom they mistakenly take for Queen Leene of Guardia.

600AD~1000AD - No idea what happens here, Marle might act tomboy and eventually leave Guardia for a way back home and never realizing that she's in the past; The real Leene might eventually be found; both, one or the other, none, or something entirely different might happen; We just don't know. Looking at a Chrono Cross angle, the rest of original timeline would get dumped into the Darkness Beyond Time.

1000AD - This era should now be different, then having a Marle existing in this time period, since the one from the original timeline lived and died of old age(realistically saying) nearly 400 years ago.

1000AD~End of Time - Unknown what happens.


...Does this difference make sense? If any of you had played Chrono Cross, Miguel makes you realize that every choice you make creates a future. After Marle is sent back in time, Crono, Lucca and everyone after 600AD should be sent to the Darkness Beyond Time? This made me think, what if the Darkness Beyond Time is only a perspective of the Chrono series characters, to which they cannot return or live through the other future had they had chosen another path in life? Because Crono and Lucca still seem intact, 1000AD still seems normal after Marle appearing in 600AD. I could go on and keep re-explaing each timeline everytime the Chrono crew move back and forth through time, but maybe I'll do it another time.

...and that was for how I believe there was only one sole timeline before the Chrono Trigger adventure began... I went off topic from my own topic lol, but discussing Chrono-related stuff just does that.


Anyhow back on topic, I do think that Lavos did indeed crashed into the Earth at 65000000BC and existed in all timelines. I mean heck, some things have survived throughout the ages even with Lavos' influence. There was still a dinosaur that existed in 600AD, the Sun Palace existed in 2300AD from the kingdom of Zeal, and the sun keep, that hardly ever moved. Why couldn't the Reptites survive even with Lavos crashing? The Tyrano lair survived. Maybe in the dimension that Crono and co. obtain the rainbow shell the Reptites weren't so lucky in surviving, maybe the Rust Tyrano ate them all? LOL... Who knows if in the Reptite/Dragonian dimension if the Reptites had won the prehistoric war against the humans? Maybe the humans won at first? Who knows?

[Lakonthegreat]

I retract my earlier statement because it would make sense that Lavos crashed into the earth.

It's possible that at some point in the Dragonian timeline that contact with the Frozen Flame could have been made, thereby forcing the evolutionary spark from Reptite to Dragonian. Also, Lavos seems to be a pretty good energy source, so who's to say the Dragonians didn't harness it as Zeal did?

[Dark Serge]

Eh, didn't read everything, but if Lavos exists in the timeline I don't think the Reptites would have been able to survive what with the ice age and all, and impending doom in 1999 A.D.

Besides, Lavos falling effectively crushed the Reptite Lair along with all the Reptites in it, including Azala. I don't think they could have won against the humans with only some sheer survivors.

[V_Translanka]

Would the Ice Age have mattered as much if Lavos hadn't fallen into the Reptite's base (among all of that volcanic activity, I might add)...I mean, they DID even in the K-2 timeline, we're given evidence of Reptites surviving with the Giant's Claw...

[Fireseal]

Wouldn't it be incredibly Deus ex Machina (kinda) if the game script incorporated our Earth's history as we know it, as the new timeline, where Lavos is truly no longer a threat?  Let's say, hero & co. go way back in time with a space ship that would work like the Epoch, before Lavos ever reaches Earth, they do battle, and if;

a. The party loses, Lavos jets off to Earth and oddly enough there is already a meteor on a trajectory course to fall on Earth. Lavos, wanting to prove to himself that he's badass, just rushes through the Meteor as if he never notices it and breaks it to pieces, and the pieces fly everywhere but not towards Earth. Lavos continues towards Earth and eventually crashes into the Earth and stay nice and comfy in his pocket dimension. Such as the Chronoverse knows it.

b. The party wins, Lavos is dead, Earth will finally be able to have a Lavos-free history without having different dimensions and the methods of time-travel no longer exists... Except for the party members that are in the time-traveling space ship. They realize that if they time-travel yet again on Earth, they might create paradoxes. In order to keep the new timeline free of time-travelers. They set course to the nearest sun where their bodies, knowledge of time-travel, and their time-traveling device will be incinerated and never be found. The meteor that Lavos should have rammed through is still intact and eventually does hit the Earth and causes an Ice-Age, like our today's scientific studies have proven.

I mean, wouldn't that be like... Genius for an ending to Chrono Trigger? Sorta I would think... lol

[V_Translanka]

I have no idea wtf you're talking about...There was a meteor heading to Chrono World...? You're postulating a what if scenario of if Chrono World was our world...? Is anyone else confused as to what he's talking about?

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

I understand it.  It's just a "what if" scenario.

[Fireseal]

Well, you know how science imagined that a meteor crashed into the Earth and caused an Ice Age? When I first played Chrono Trigger and saw when Lavos crashed onto the Earth, then read in a dialogue from one of them cave men that 'snow' was starting to fall from the sky? That immediately made me think of that 'Meteor crashed into the Earth-caused an Ice Age-kill dinosaurs' theory. It's just like what you said, it's a what if scenario, what if Lavos hadn't arrived of Earth? I think it would be safe to assume that the course of history would happen just like ours, I mean the Chronoverse is already similar in many ways to our world.

Do you get it now?

[V_Translanka]

Yeah...? I guess I just don't see the point, then. It's just that it seems like such a meaningless 'What if...?' scenario...especially (but not limited) to the Analysis section...Also, if Lavos was supposed to be like the meteor postulated to have happened on our earth, why would there be a meteor to strike the Chrono World if Lavos had not?

[Fireseal]

I'm curious to know why you would put meaningless in italic form, I'm not sorry to have a different ideal and/or mindset as you on what you would think 'What's fact/fiction/what ifs in the Chrono Universe'.

Anyhow...
I would think that it would be quite a meaningful 'what if' scenario if someone(in the Chrono Universe) truly wanted to rid Lavos from Earth, since in my 'what if' scenario this party would be attacking it before it even had its sight on Earth. I mean, in Chrono Trigger you think that Lavos is gone straight into oblivion after the final battle(with those flashy effects, who would doubt that?).. But no! Squaresoft(at the time) decided to write a 'Darkness Beyond Time' in their sequel, a place that Lavos was thrown into after Chrono Trigger, and there you go Lavos is once again a threat to Earth, even though it's subtle.

I should mention that my 'what if' scenario is if SE should decide that Lavos is still existant in some shape or form/still a threat to Earth in a (hopeful) future sequel. If SE decides that Lavos was thrown into oblivion, to never exist again, then yes you will be correct in assuming that my 'what if' scenario is meaningless ..

Lavos just seems to be a persistent character after playing Chrono Cross, after knowing that it had developped emotions(you just know it from dialogue in the game), negative emotions to be precise, you can't help but feel that it'll be not just persistent, but VERY persistent, it wants REVENGE, and that emotion is a bitch and can't be calmed just by getting beat up(twice) by a few schmucks on an adventure(forgive me Crono & Serge, just making a point lol). But of course it's up to SE to decide Lavos' fate.