Author Topic: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.  (Read 8140 times)

utunnels

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2008, 02:12:15 pm »
Maybe.
But they surely intended to keep Serge a speechless guy, because he's titled 'Silent Protagonist', if you view status in menu.


V_Translanka

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2008, 03:32:03 pm »
I think Crono fits fine in the Chrono series. It's all about making choices & struggling against fate...I think that putting the player in a more involved role by making use of silent protagonists gives a heightened sense of importance to the tale...though ironically or no, I think it sort of falters in Serge's case because they do give him a history...Giving him more lines (ala Radical Dreamers, har har) would have benefited him & the overall story as he is so involved personally...

Also, this has so much to do with the possibility of a CC remake.

It's called a conversation. Go with the flow, beeyotch. :lol: (I insult & then lol, thus negating the insult, HA...?)...where was I?

Dark Serge

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2008, 04:26:30 pm »
Yeah well I just hate the concept. A protagonist without history or personality, why the heck is such a person the protagonist? Someone like that shouldn't be the main character in an RPG like CT or CC. That's why I was relieved about Serge in CC, but still annoyed due to him not talking. I'd almost go out of my way to hack the rom/iso and make him talk, but it's too much of a hassle right now.

mav

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2008, 04:37:27 pm »
It's called a conversation. Go with the flow, beeyotch. :lol: (I insult & then lol, thus negating the insult, HA...?)...where was I?
Lmao, fine, fine.

Anyhow, perhaps there's this sort of relatability factor that's supposed to come into play with these protagonists: they don't speak, cause in theory they want your thoughts to be the ones in his head and out of his mouth, and they remove a back story so you can relate to him. I suppose having silent protagonists like Crono and Serge suggest that anyone could have an adventure, even those playing the game.

I prefer dialog to relatability, personally, but that's just me.

Dark Serge

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2008, 04:54:34 pm »
Yeah I got taught about that too in school. "The people who play the games you make should be able to identify with the main character". But in my opinion that's a load of bullshit. Everyone is different, and it would mean every main character in every game needs to be restricted to human standards. So that's one of the few things I don't agree with when it comes to games. Just because you don't recognize yourself in a main character doesn't mean you can't understand him.

V_Translanka

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #80 on: November 27, 2008, 04:57:49 pm »
I think it was also a throwback/nod to the main protagonists of the original Final Fantasys & Dragon Quests.

Dark Serge

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2008, 06:11:59 pm »
Well, if it's true that Squeenix watches our theories and ideas, I hope they're watching. Talking protagonists could make future installments so much better.

KebreI

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2008, 06:22:02 pm »
Well, if it's true that Squeenix watches our theories and ideas, I hope they're watching. Talking protagonists could make future installments so much better.
Naw I think it part of the feel, the Dragon Quests hero don't talk if I recall.

Dark Serge

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2008, 06:48:54 pm »
How is that part of the feel? A silent protagonist usually feels out of place to me. A main character that doesn't involve himself in any conversation whatsoever should not be a main character.

FalconHit

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #84 on: November 28, 2008, 03:33:39 am »
How is that part of the feel? A silent protagonist usually feels out of place to me. A main character that doesn't involve himself in any conversation whatsoever should not be a main character.

Seeing as how this an argument of opinion and not fact I think it should be dropped. There's no way it can get out of it's stalemate.

Xenterex

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #85 on: November 28, 2008, 04:21:39 am »
The 'silent' protagonist is an approach to make the action more distinctive than the dialogue, which is part of the stylization of the games in how your actions (and not words) effect time.  It's not as if Crono doesn't speak, its that the game doesn't list his dialogue.  Otherwise, people wouldn't know his name, plan of action, etc.  Since you are generally in the lead perspective of the character, its a means of not only reducing chat clutter (esp for people that get bored with rpg conversational text boxes) but also not needing to bother with excessive dialogue that simply isn't needed.  Most of what could be said, is generally conveyed through action, or semi-repeated by another character without it actually having been said beforehand.

Personally, I find this method works better in sprites because the sprite animations generally convey emotional action better than polygonal graphics. (stylization) Due to that, I find that it depicts Crono better as the silect protagonist than Serge, giving him a better feel for character.  Plus, I think the mood-music works better to this effect as well.  Serge on the other hand has a past and regional relationships with people, which is required for the story's setup.

Furthermore, i find that games have an increasing trend in needing dialogue.  My thoughts are that Serge is 'silent' because it's another attribute to make him similar to Crono, yet maintain his 'superiority.'  Serge has a forced feel of greater characterization because he's meant to be 'better' than Crono and able to do things Crono wasn't.  I think a speaking role would've suited Serge better; maybe not one that spoke a lot, but just so enough to not be a 'silent' hero

ZealKnight

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #86 on: November 28, 2008, 12:50:28 pm »
But they do in Final Fantasy. And Kingdom Hearts. Silent protagonists are just stupid, unless the developer intents him to be you. While I can understand this point of view, it's just not suited for the Chrono series.

Wasn't Crono intended to be you? I mean you can make a lot of choices, the game is kinda restricted but still there are choices. I think if they added more choices like in Fable(but not that many) it could be better, but overall I enjoy it.

Dark Serge

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2008, 12:57:29 pm »
But they do in Final Fantasy. And Kingdom Hearts. Silent protagonists are just stupid, unless the developer intents him to be you. While I can understand this point of view, it's just not suited for the Chrono series.

Wasn't Crono intended to be you? I mean you can make a lot of choices, the game is kinda restricted but still there are choices. I think if they added more choices like in Fable(but not that many) it could be better, but overall I enjoy it.

And that right there is the bullshit part of it all. Chrono shouldn't be "us", and we shouldn't be Chrono. Chrono is Chrono and he should have his own personality and dialogue.

@ Xenterex: Following your logic, you'd think it was best to remove all dialogue from the games and just do everything through sprite animation, is that it? Just because people take actions doesn't mean they have to be silent, imo

Xenterex

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #88 on: November 28, 2008, 01:28:30 pm »
Quote
@ Xenterex: Following your logic, you'd think it was best to remove all dialogue from the games and just do everything through sprite animation, is that it? 

Boy thats a jump off the logic boat and into a sea of misreading.  Large difference between a protagonist view and its specific story contribution, and how the story in its entirety is told.  My logic is based on the statement "actions speak louder than words."  Crono is a character that's defined entirely by action.  This is made initially evident at the trial where 'your' actions have created your 'character'.  Characters are tools used to convey the story, just because a lead role uses silence as one means of communication doesn't mean I think, or use logic to show that I think, that the entire story should be a mimed animation experience.  If an rpg story were conveyed entirely through sprite animations (void of dialogue)  then it'd be simply "too loud" for just about anyone to want to 'read', let alone script.  Even Super Mario RPG uses dialogue.  Its emphasis on pantomime is a means of amusement and stylization in regards to a single lead character (and how other characters interact) for the betterment of the story as a whole.  That statement doesn't mean I think every RPG should have a silent protagonist either.  Very few actually use that tool as a means of improving the story as a whole.  BOF games use a silent protagonist, and its means of communication is not as good as Chrono Trigger, let alone SMRPG

My reference to 'chat clutter' is a generic rpg element typically personified by the lead character having to sum up and emphasize key elements expressed in important dialogue.  Crono simply doesn't convey that, so the audience, us, have to pay attention to what is actually being said, and how its said, rather than simply how its summed up.  This approach of placing more emphasis on what is said is the better when compared to a system of dialogue summation.
Furthermore, I then added I think the presentation of using character action to cut down on dialogue is the better in sprites than polygons.  Another big difference between 'better' and 'best' here.  I haven't even remotely mentioned what I think is 'best' about anything, let alone leaving any logical hints toward it.

Quote
Chrono shouldn't be "us", and we shouldn't be Chrono. Chrono is Chrono and he should have his own personality and dialogue.
 

qft. "We" aren't Crono.  We might be sharing in his shoes for a time, but that's not the same as being him.  Otherwise how could he die?  It's not like the game went dark for us and we had to have a pause scene while the rest of the crew brought Crono back to life.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 02:42:30 pm by Xenterex »

Dark Serge

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Re: The possibility of a Chrono Cross remake.
« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2008, 05:26:54 pm »
Quote
Chrono shouldn't be "us", and we shouldn't be Chrono. Chrono is Chrono and he should have his own personality and dialogue.
 

qft. "We" aren't Crono.  We might be sharing in his shoes for a time, but that's not the same as being him.  Otherwise how could he die?  It's not like the game went dark for us and we had to have a pause scene while the rest of the crew brought Crono back to life.

Yeah you don't seem to understand what I mean but it doesn't matter. Obviously our opinions are quite different, so discussion is pointless.