A few questions regarding C. Cross

[Leebot]

Yep, that's it.

[Reilos]

Thought so.

Then again, perhaps Nadia's disappearance could be considered part of "The Entity's" plan, as ZeaLity suggests.

Hey!  Does that mean that Nadia ended up in the Darkness Beyond Time when she faded out of existance?  Wouldn't it be interesting then if she and the Time Devourer unwittingly crossed paths?

[Faulce]

she ended up somewhere "cold, dark, and lonely" which is basically the DBT but i dont think shes apart of an erased timeline b/c i think the entity is the cause for her disappearance as Zeality suggested.  If she didnt disappear, Lucca would have assured crono that someone would save Leene (she knew of how the events progressed originally) and the 3 of them would go back to 1000 A.D.   If they dont go after Leene, they dont meet Frog, if they dont meet Frog, they dont acquire the Masamune, if they dont " " , they cannot reach Magus, etc. all the way to arriving at 1999 A.D.  So clearly, Marle's disappearance is crucial to the Entity's plan.
...i guess

[Leebot]

Well, it is possible she went to the DBT. However, she couldn't have come across the TD as it didn't exist yet*.

*Referring to the Time-Error axis, as per my theory. Basically, it's the line of cause-and-effect seen by the player while playing through CT. The events that caused the TD to be created hadn't yet* occured, so Marle couldn't have come across it.

[Faulce]

Well, it is possible she went to the DBT. However, she couldn't have come across the TD as it didn't exist yet*.

*Referring to the Time-Error axis, as per my theory. Basically, it's the line of cause-and-effect seen by the player while playing through CT. The events that caused the TD to be created hadn't yet* occured, so Marle couldn't have come across it.

hmmm... like how even though the plan of the Entity had already begun when crono traveled to 600AD, the future wasnt immediately fixed, so anyone traveling there would see the same bleak world post-lavos?

[GrayLensman]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but... the grandfather paradox... is that the belief that one couldn't go back in time and kill his/her grandparent, because if you did, you'd never be born and thus couldn't be able to go back and kill your grandfather?

In more general terms, if a traveler warps into the past his presence will cause a change to the timeline from that point on.  The new version of the traveler arriving from the new timeline cannot be the same as the original traveler, negating the original change to the timeline and causing a paradox.  In order for the time traveler to act, his original history must be preserved.

For example, if Crono warps to 600 AD and immediately returns, the mere act of emerging in Truce Canyon will change the timeline so that the new version of Crono who is born in the present will be slightly different.  If the version of Crono who enters the Gate in 1000 AD and exits in 600 AD are not identical, there is a violation of causality (cause and effect).

Our present model solves this problem by preserving the history of all time travelers.  According to Chrono Cross, whenever history is changed a new timeline is created.  The original timeline is cast into the Darkness Beyond Time.  The world line of the traveler is broken, making the time traveler immune to any changes to the timeline.  Basically, the time travelers history leads back to the DBT which is preserved forever, and he cannot be affected by events in the new timeline.  Marle's disappearance is the only event which does not validate this theory.  (I think I just repeated Zeality)

We need to add some definitions to the encyclopedia, such as:

timeline
dimension
world line
light cone
grandfather paradox
causal loop

[Reilos]

Going back on my original subject, maybe you guys can help me out again by explaining some other things I've read/heard.

I've heard a theory that Serge is to Magus/Janus as Kid is to Schala.  Any validity to that?

I've read a lot about the scenes in the ending involving who is assumably Schala walking through modern day Tokyo.  I've read many summaries (including ones here) that mention that as part of the plot.  I always thought they were just filler for the player to watch during the credits...

Also, in the end we see the famous wedding photo of someone sitting next to Schala (or Kid).  I've heard people say it's Serge, but I remember thinking it was Magus (the guy in the pic did have long, what looked like silver hair).  Any idea on who the guy is?

[Faulce]

serge is not magus or janus, there isnt really any evidence in the game for that except for maybe the scene in the lab where you read Lucca's note, she mentions that janus is watching over kid, but she knew nothing of serge, so that is pretty much discounted.  i am not sure about the picture though.
i dont recall hearing anything of magus having a son-clone like schala has her daughter-clone kid.  however, im not sure if i even new this answer before, but could someone retell me why kid exists?  i forgot (if i even knew at all)

[Reilos]

Kid was Schala's daughter-clone sent back to guard over Serge (as well as save him when he was a drift), as well as sort of guide him on to help save Schala (one of the reasons I don't think they ever merge, or that Schala ever really goes back to find Serge when Kid can do it for her).

[Radical_Dreamer]

I've heard a theory that Serge is to Magus/Janus as Kid is to Schala.  Any validity to that?

No real validity, but some interesting "pro" arguments, that's for sure. Some of them make some good sense.

[ZeaLitY]

Son of TMOG really debated that Serge was Janus, but yes, nothing came of it. It's even more iconoclastic than Miguel being Crono, and just a little out there. Viewing the Missing Piece artbook proves that Serge is the one wearing the "wedding saris" (I think it's called; Chrono'99 should know, as he's always nailing this point in discussion). I think we should go ahead with the Cross Resolution now.

Lensman, before I begin adding theory and principles, I want to create a solid structure for that encyclopedia, and the stuff within. The very first and only Compendium model went like this:

~
Entry name: Red Gate (Cause of)

Question: What caused the Red Gate in Fiona's Forest?

Theory: The Entity took pity on Lucca's failure to save her mother, and granted her a second chance. (Author goes here if the theory is unique)

Support

Abstract of support
Individual quotes and arguments

Neutral Commentary

Refutation

Abstract of refutation
Individual quotes and arguments

Theory: Lucca somehow created it herself.

etc.
~

Neutral Commentary could go anywhere. Anyway, that was the previous model; can it be improved? Also, the structure model simply listed topics and then posed a question-like description after them, such as Crono (Father of). This runs into some minor problems at times.

Reading the phrase light cone has made me VERY hungry.

[sarua]

serge is not magus or janus, there isnt really any evidence in the game for that except for maybe the scene in the lab where you read Lucca's note, she mentions that janus is watching over kid

Kid was Schala's daughter-clone sent back to guard over Serge (as well as save him when he was a drift), as well as sort of guide him on to help save Schala (one of the reasons I don't think they ever merge, or that Schala ever really goes back to find Serge when Kid can do it for her).

i duobt someone can find better answer

But here i don`t get one thing, if Janus/Magus was watching over Kid where he dissapeared?

[Reilos]

A valid question, which is the heart at some of the anti-C. Cross arguments is the absolute lack of Magus/Janus (which is, quite honestly, a travesty).  I've heard people make the assumption that he's dead, but I doubt that seeing as Lucca's letter addresses him.

I've always believed that he was stuck in 12,000 B.C., still looking for Schala.  *How he was supposed to have gotten to 1020 to read that letter is beyond me.  


*If I recall correctly, the Epoch was destroyed against Lavos' shell in the ending that Cross followed, meaning any sort of natural time travel was impossible since the Gates vanished.  This also leads me to the theory that if Schala did go back to find Janus after being freed from the TD, she'd be stuck in that age, and thus unable to find Serge.  (Thus the by saying "I" in the ending, she's referring to Kid, whom is technically "her").

That leads me to wonder though.  When Schala was freed, where would she go?  To the era she was freed in (which makes sense), to the era she was originally lost in (which also makes sense), or to wherever her little heart desired (which, I suppose, could also make sense).

[ZeaLitY]

I've never understood why Schala would resolve to find Serge when everyone knows that he's living a nice little life in Arni, ca. 1020 A.D.

Guile was supposed to be Magus; of course, this was cancelled. Now, the known fate is locked within Masato Kato's head, as the previous design for Magus is now bogus. Apparently, he was to find and free Schala with Serge and the others, but now he's simply missing. Can Schala's words be interpreted to mean she's searching for Janus?

[Reilos]

Can Schala's words be interpreted to mean she's searching for Janus?

I don't think so... she kinda mentions Serge by name.  Also, if that were true, then what would be the meaning of her talking like Kid, which leads me to believe that Kid is either actually the one writing the letter, or it's Schala pointing out that it's Kid whom is trying to find him.  Or, she could have just been trying to be funny...