Lucca vs Lynx

[Shadow_Dragon]

hmm.. the Lavaboys could be created in firey places then taken it, I guess

Although it would be cool, I doubt that the developers planned for any of the characters (except for Guile initially) to be from CT, because I think the intention is for the characters of CC to be the new generation, like the ending in Zelda: Windwaker, where the old people flood the old place so the new people can have their own future, without giving too much away

[SilentMartyr]

SilentMartyr, were you CTcronoboy before?

The force is strong in this one.

[Sentenal]

*Looks at silent's sig*

[Shadow_Dragon]

It could've been someone who liked the sig and just copied it w/o thinking about the name on it

[SilentMartyr]

And has the same posts, and join date, and icon...

[JustinS1985]

If I'm not mistaken (been a while since I played CC) couldn't you see Lucca's glasses on the ground when you confronted Lynx in the past?  If she took off her glasses to sleep, and lynx managed to get to her before she could put them back on she'd be pretty much defenseless.  It's an idea, at least.  Lynx was no where near Lucca's caliber in a 1 vs. 1 fight.

[Philosopher1701]

Yeah, you could see her glasses on the floor.  

[Shadow_Dragon]

As I remember, you don't actually confront Lynx, but I can't remember if going into the room with Kid triggers the scene with Lynx and Harle standing in the orphanage...

[JustinS1985]

That's what I meant lol, going into the room with kid and seeing the scene with Lynx and Harle inside the orphanage....I think that's how it happened anyway.  I really need to play that part of the game again.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Mother flippin' thread revival!

So there's a thread elsewhere where we were talking about the fate of Crono, Marle, and Lucca and what we expect actually happened to the characters. We have the most concrete answer for Lucca, and it certainly ain't a pretty end.

Spoilers for those who haven't played Chrono Cross:
So we see in the PSX anime ending of Chrono Trigger that Guardia falls in 1005AD; the Masamune is also used to kill and disappears. Even worse yet, I had forgot how violent this video is -- we clearly see multiple CIVILIANS lying dead amongst the dirt, not just soldiers. Yikes! Regardless, we later see a slightly older Lucca and a prototype robot (based off of Robo) walking through a forest, where they come upon a blonde-haired baby wearing a pendant... which we all know is actually the daughter-clone of Schala, Kid (for the record, I don't think Kid is an actual genetic clone of Schala -- the game refers to her as daughter-clone at some point, so I'm thinking she's moreso akin to a genetic daughter, but who the other genetic donor(s) would be is up in the air; this clearly reveals why she is Fire elemental and has very little physical similarities to Schala, but this is a topic for another thread).

Moving on, in Chrono Cross we learn that Lucca was recruited by Balthasar into Project Kid (in some capacity). Lucca may have visited Chronopolis and may have known the full extend of Project Kid and it's goal to save Schala from the Dream Devourer and the Darkness Beyond Time. We have confirmation that she helped design/implement the Prometheus Circuit (RIP) that was designed to safeguard against the FATE AI.

But here's something we're all forgetting...

All of the events in Chrono Cross are by design. They are quite literally all mechanisms carefully designed to occur so that Serge is created, become strong enough to obtain the Chrono Cross element, and then go free Schala. That means every battle he undergoes is intentionally designed with the end goal of making him stronger.

So, I got to thinking... Assuming the above is correct... Serge's birth was by design. His attack by the panther demon and becoming the Arbiter of the Frozen Flame was, again, by design. Which means that the fact the FATE AI gets locked out, goes crazy, and transforms poor Wazuki into a living bioorganic interface in the form of Lynx is, once again, by design.

Remember, all of this is part of Balthasar's grand plan.

So... by this very logic, the fact that FATE/Lynx confronts Lucca in 1015AD and burns her orphanage to the ground would HAVE to have been known as part of Project Kid. Why? Because the only home Kid knew until 1015AD was this orphanage, Lucca the closest thing to a mother she had. Kid, who is part of Project Kid's very design, NEEDED this event as a catalyst. This singular event, and the apparent demise of Lucca, is what would've been required to push Kid into the Radical Dreamers lifestyle and eventually cross paths with Serge.

So... this leads us to:

Q: Did Lucca know of her own role in Project Kid?
A: Unknown, although I could totally see megalomaniac Balthasar actively witholding this from Lucca and just allowing her to be another casualty in the scope of Project Kid. After all, what is one more death if it means quite literally saving all of space-time?

Q: But if she did know, and it's possible she did knowing her involvement in Chronopolis' safeguards, did she act as a willing sacrifice? Or did she concoct these events, knowing how brutal they'd be to 11-year old Kid, but necessary, and simply disappear until the appropriate time?
A: Once again, unknown. It's very possible Lucca is quite literally dead. This is most likely the case given how the story was written with complete disregard to our nostalgia regarding the Trigger crew, but then again, there's always this backdoor...

And if Lucca was willing to sidestep history (or at least for a time) in the name of the greater good... where does that lead Crono or Marle?

Food for thought. Or discussion.

[Acacia Sgt]

Part of me thinks she may not have known the full picture. Otherwise, it would be a very VERY messed up thing to have the children of the orphanage around the night the place would be attacked. Like, there may have been alternatives to ensure only Kid would be in the building that night, but the fact that it seems the kids were left to die... I'm not sure Lucca would've really signed up for that. Unless there was some sort of safeguards, but the way it's depicted in the game, it looks like Kid was the only survivor. Unless by coaxing them out of their hiding places and dousing some of the fires with the Ice Breath/Gun, Serge saved them, and that was also part of the scenario.

Hmm, I don't know... or wait, how exactly did that whole thing went? Was it actual time travel to the night of the fire, or just entering some kind of memory of Kid of the night? I'd need to rewatch that part.

Just as a minor sidenote, but Lucca's scene of finding Kid is before the Fall of Guardia, since it's part of the main ending cutscene. It plays right after Crono and Marle's wedding, but before the Fall of Guardia segment. Considering Kid's age, Lucca probably found her in like around 1004AD or so.

[Sheiken]

I have not read too much onto this thread, so sorry if I missed something...

But people seem to be forgetting something very important about Lynx...he is already extremely powerful to the point where a level 99 Lucca would not be able to toast him with flare like some people suggest.  Lets break it down.

Fight one with Lynx is against his Shadow...not Lynx himself.

Fight 2 with Lynx is also not anything to go by, because he was hilding back...and ultimately WON.  He never wanted to kill Serge and crew in that fight, but swap identities with Serge himself.  Once he does that, he wastes everyone effortlessly.

Fight 3 with Lynx is a little different, as he seems to actually want to stop you.  After the fight he says it is already too late anyway, and that he underestimated Serge.  He did not look tired nor scared however, and just states he has other things to do.  Possibly a bluff, but also possible he never really wanted to stop you so much as toy with you.  It is also important to note that Serge would have been A LOT stronger at this point as well, so his power could have been more comparible to Crono and gang at that time...though still not quite on par.

So what this sums up is that Lynx was never a push over or some low level threat to begin with, no matter how strong Lucca was.  Also remember that Lynx is the one who defeated Crono himself, who was arguably stronger than Lucca to begin with.  Now before we get into THAT debate, lets add one more fact to the equation that would be stacked up on top of Lynx's already deadly power...He had the corrupted Masamune at his disposal.

As Lynx was already dark, wielding the Masamune would not affect him mentally but would still amplify his strength.  This is how he was able to beat Crono, and he likely still had it when he took on Lucca (who was likely distracted by the safety of the orphans as well).  And as a cherry on top, look at his description for his ultimate move, Forever Zero.  The move turns things to nothingness, implying the man can erase beings from existence.  Not a power to be taken lightly (and also possibly exaggerated, but that is besides the point).

So when all factors are taken into consideration, I find it no suprise that he was able to get one over on Lucca to be honest.

[Beach Bum]

I know there are pointers that Lucca is dead, but I think there's a chance she might be alive. That scene near the end of the game, when Serge confronts Lynx in the burning orphanage... Her glasses are on the floor, next to his feet, which would indicate a struggle, yet no body can be observed... What happened to Lucca? Did Lynx burn her corpse? This seems unlikely in such a short time. Why is Lynx standing there, looking desperately out of the window? Could it be that Lucca climbed through and ran for it? It seems out of character for her, to leave the kids behind like that. I dunno.

As for Belthasar... He's a maniac. Manipulated countless lives and civilizations in order to execute his plan. So yes, I'd 100% buy it if he sacrificed Lucca to that end. To what extent she knew of his plan, who knows. I doubt she knew she was going to be killed. If she had, she wouldn't have endangered the kids in her orphanage. Before Serge's intervention (and possibly even after), several children died in that fire. Belthasar would have been fine with that, but not Lucca.