Author Topic: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?  (Read 3223 times)

Kebrel

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2008, 03:33:03 am »
Let me rephrase:

V thinks himself as evil.


ONSLAUGHT

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2008, 02:00:24 pm »
I think another reason why it's so hard to judge what Lavos' intentions are is that human emotions get in the way, we think what we feel. Without them we'd be able to understand why lavos does what it does, like the people of the future. However like the peole from the future without those emotions we'd be driven into a cold desolate lifestyle.  Emotion=Lavos is evil. No emotion=Lavos is just doing it's own thing.

OverlordMikey

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2008, 05:48:27 pm »
I think another reason why it's so hard to judge what Lavos' intentions are is that human emotions get in the way, we think what we feel. Without them we'd be able to understand why lavos does what it does, like the people of the future. However like the peole from the future without those emotions we'd be driven into a cold desolate lifestyle.  Emotion=Lavos is evil. No emotion=Lavos is just doing it's own thing.
Hmmmmm actully I think it's quite possible that Lavos has emotions. I mean Lavos can feel anger and hatred (after Lavos is defeated Lavos feels these...note "after being defeated because it's future was prevented.")
I mean in sense we could argue that Chrono and co. did something evil because they killed a creature who in all sense was pregnet simple because it's existence was inconvinent to the human race! I mean it's nature though, destrony that which causes you harm.) but still that doesn't make Lavos evil....that doesn't make Chrono good. No such luck Chrono is good in the eyes of humanity, there is no one who thinks that way of Lavos so Lavos is never given such respect. Lavos did just what Chrono and co did. Tried to ensure it's future in a world where anything is possible.
Neither of them where good nor bad. Infact if you think about it there goals where verymuch the same....ensure a future for all (only diffrence is which species...much like Humans vs Reptites it was mearly the way things are. The diffrence is that the Planet would be hurt by Lavos' future so it was trying to ease it's pain.)
In my opinion Evil doesn't really exisit since something only becomes evil if something thinks it is. We make evil, evil itself isn't a real existence. In my opinion Lavos has feelings, Lavos put it's feeling above our because they were LAVOS' feeling. Lavos could didn't have empathy for us plain and simple, that doesn't make Lavos evil. How could Lavos possible empathise with us even if we have feelings and thoughts...the goals, there was only Lavos vs Planet and Humans...no Good vs Evil.

Look at the history of Chrono's World the conflict

Humans vs Reptites
then
Earthbound vs Zeal (mind you it would turn to Zeal vs Lavos after Zeal got to close)
then
Humans vs Mystics
then
Humans vs well no one reall peaceful huh...untill human vs human.
then
Humans vs Robots

None of the other enemies of humanity were really evil. They just cared more about there goals and race then they cared about getting along with humans. Mind you they sometimes took it to far (Zeal ensalves Earthbound and Motherbrain's Genocide) But they had the best of plans.)
Reptites: Survivel of the fittest.
Zeal: Immortality
Mystics: A world for Mystics/Demons
Mother Brain: an Age of Steel.

None of them were perfect, some went to extreams, but none were truely evil.

So why is it Lavos has to be evil. WHy can't it be the same way. The reasons, because unlike the other LAVOS WON, Lavos beat us!! So of course we see Lavos as evil!

Let me rephrase:

V thinks himself as evil.



Hmmmmm yes be we like V that way....right?

V_Translanka

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2008, 08:05:07 pm »
In the end though, it all comes down to Lavos vs The Entity.

OverlordMikey

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2008, 01:49:21 am »
In the end though, it all comes down to Lavos vs The Entity.

Yes that's true, however neither are evil, nor good. The Entity is fighting for its future and Lavos is fighting for it's. I see no Good or Evil there, only life. Heck the Planet isn't even fighting, really it's just haveing flashbacks and noticed "hey these guys might be able to help." it doesn't seem to care about us all that much either, only it's survival (or at least it's not suffering considering it would have mostlikey recovered after a long period of time).

On the other hand I accept to logic the the TD is a negitive force toward life and nature but I like to think that despite being a creature created from Lavos and Schala it is consumed with anger and hatred that it's original goal as Lavos (gather DNA,reproduction, ensureing it's future) means nothing to it anymore as it is no longer part of nature in anyway and due it's new twisted form only desires nothingness. (or so it seems, but even I would find it difficult to argue in the TDs favor.)

V_Translanka

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2008, 05:28:33 am »
In the end, Schala seems to say that the living beings of the planet are really a part of the planet, kind of like its offspring in a way...?

OverlordMikey

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2008, 02:15:38 pm »
In the end, Schala seems to say that the living beings of the planet are really a part of the planet, kind of like its offspring in a way...?

Hmmm yes that's true. Lavos' is not a being from the panet so the planet dislikes him (mind you Lavos is a Parasite, but so are a lot of things). The TD lack an natural existence and has become non-exsitence. If Lavos is the enemy because he is not of the Planet, but he is still part of nature, just on a more universal scale. Hmmmmm still that desn't make Lavos evil. Unless you pile all the facts together in a way that ignores Lavos' side you can't say he's evil. heck you can barely say he's malevolent.
-He crashd into the planet. (Because Lavos wanted to feed then give birth, time to hide and rest right)
-Zeal got used by him and he destroyed Zeal Kingdom (The found out about him and began useing him as an energy source, they had to be removed, heck in the Chrono Timeline he honor his deal with Queen Zeal!)
-600AD he would have killed Magus because Magus summons him!
-1000AD, Lavos does nothing...no one bothers her!
-1999AD Lavos finishes her/his feeding, time to give birth and then mostlikly die!
-2300AD Lavos is dead, a few straglers are left behind they will mostlikely leave on there own when they are strong enough, Planet will most likley recover, in Chrono Timeline Black Omen still floats in the sky!

Where in this proves Lavos is Malevolent or Evil (in the case of Zeal Kingdom he had to ensure they were removed forever! They where draining his energy! and he still honored his deal with Queen Zeal!).

ONSLAUGHT

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2008, 05:18:38 pm »
If it kept his part of the bargain with Queen Zeal, then it's not a parasite. I can't remember what it's called but I remember from school(never thought I'd have to use something from there in something like here)that there's a scientific term for a being that uses and takes from it's host, th planet AND Zeal and gives something in return. So is it possible it's giving something back to the planet in return for using it since it did that with Queen Zeal?

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2008, 06:46:31 pm »
You're talking about a symbiote, ONSLAUGHT...

-1000AD, Lavos does nothing...no one bothers her!

Lavos is the cause of the earthquakes in 1000AD.

-2300AD Lavos is dead, a few straglers are left behind they will mostlikely leave on there own when they are strong enough, Planet will most likley recover, in Chrono Timeline Black Omen still floats in the sky!

I don't think we know one way or the other if Lavos is actually dead at that point...and either way, the Mother Brain's nation of steel would destroy humanity.

ONSLAUGHT

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2008, 08:48:02 pm »
Symbiote, thank you. Forgot the word.
And yeah, there really is no proof of whatever happened to Lavos after 1999 AD.

OverlordMikey

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2008, 09:30:25 pm »
You're talking about a symbiote, ONSLAUGHT...

-1000AD, Lavos does nothing...no one bothers her!

Lavos is the cause of the earthquakes in 1000AD.

-2300AD Lavos is dead, a few straglers are left behind they will mostlikely leave on there own when they are strong enough, Planet will most likley recover, in Chrono Timeline Black Omen still floats in the sky!

I don't think we know one way or the other if Lavos is actually dead at that point...and either way, the Mother Brain's nation of steel would destroy humanity.

Yes your right, I just think that Lavos died then, it seems quite possible that Lavos might die apon giving birth.
and as for Mother Brain, She's got nothing to do with Lavos so ignoring her genocide is disturbingly easy for me to do, the stagerlers I mentiond where the Lavos Spawn, and finally the planet will eventully recover, rule by a nation of steel, tragic to humans...yes...tragic to robots...not so much.

There's no real proof that Lavos caused the earthquakes of 1000AD (It seems odd that Lavos would be restless 999 years before) that may have been the planet itself reacting (the planet becomes more active as it reaches the point) so Lavos may be inavertable causeing the earthquakes, they could also just be large earthquakes.

and I suppose Lavos has some symbitoic ways, but mostly she/he is a parasite. Wouldn't it be funny if Lavos did leave something for the Planet, and the planet never noticed (that wuld be funny)

(did they say Lavos caused the earthquakes? I don't remember seeing that in the game)

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2008, 10:10:18 pm »
I'm actually starting to think on that if it left anything for us... Because it is always possible that the Lavos Spawn might have given something, it's just that they were killed almost immediately.
Or perhaps lavos is giving something in return to the humans? Because think about it, everytime humans(normal humans)have had to fight against something, Reptites, Enlightened, Mystics, every single time Lavos has always been the cause for their wipe out. When Lavos landed on the planet, it took down the reptite palace this killing off the reptites for the most part.(Giant's claw, more so buried them but they were still gotten rid of) Then when the enlightened practically had the earthbound enslaved, Lavos destroyed the Kingdom Of Zeal(Save the Queen of course). And after that when battling with the Mystics Lavos destroyed Magus' castle resulting in the Mystics having no leader and absolutely no purpose to fight, they were beaten(since lets face it at the time, the mystics weren't exactly the smartest beings, how else is it that Yakra became a commander for them? Or OZZIE?!). Then humans had no quarrels or wars in the present era and so Lavos simpy slept(maybe a yawn since people do that in their sleep as well as animals)could have caused the earthquakes or maybe slight movement like when you toss and turn at night. then, Lavos erupted onto the planet and gave birth. After that since Lavos had gotten what IT wanted, there was really no reason to assist the humans in the future against the robots, hence their obvious and inevitable victory.

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2008, 01:46:01 am »
Sure I'd be pissed too if I were Lavos. But the dude (or lady) just can't expect to rush into our Earth and destroy it just for it's own selfish purposes. So because Lavos has to reproduce and survive and protect it's children our future has to be ruined? The planet's inhabitants have more reasons to be pissed off then Lavos imo.

OverlordMikey

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2008, 02:40:14 am »
Sure I'd be pissed too if I were Lavos. But the dude (or lady) just can't expect to rush into our Earth and destroy it just for it's own selfish purposes. So because Lavos has to reproduce and survive and protect it's children our future has to be ruined? The planet's inhabitants have more reasons to be pissed off then Lavos imo.

If you paid attention I already said Chrono and his group where justified in there actions.
And you consider giveing children a future "selfish"? Okkkk I feel bed for you first kid. I think surivival is kinda a thing most creature (even humans) put first. Lavos didn't have a stake in our future so obviously it didn't care about that.
Much like if you wnat a promotion, your not gonna spend all the time pitying the others who didn't get the promtion. Lavos needed a planet, Chrono's planet fit the bill. I admit Lavos  is intellegnt but I doubt he cared much about the planet considering it wasn't the one she/he is from(if the planet even still exists).
but I never acted like the Entity or Chrono was wrong! I'm just considering Lavos motive in this all. I mean nothing in the natural universe is "just trying to be evil" Lavos would either be dead or gone after 1999AD so she never thought "I shouldn't leave this place a mess.

Dark Serge

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Re: A Possiblity of Misunderstanding?
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2008, 06:45:24 pm »
Well sure Lavos has it's reasons, but I never really cared about that really. For me it was always just "It's f*cking up our planet, so it must die"