If you could change Chrono Cross, how would you do it?

[LavosFan]

I just dont understand why people would want less characters on a game. Having less characters on a game is like having less eating options in a restaurant. Its just so stupid for anyone to wish for "less characters".

NEWS FLASH. You dont have to use any character you don't want. You don't even have to accept them in your party. The important characters dont suffer because of the big amount of characters because their stories are told anyways. A character you hate might be liked by someone else.

Am I missing something here? Do the CC characters come out of the game and smack your head while you sleep? Do they force themselves into your group of 3 even if you don't want to have them there? 

[Chocobo_Fan]

And if you have hundreds of eating options in a restaurant, (most of which are pretty much the exact same thing) won't you be overwhelmed and not know what to pick? Or sometimes, you'll just decide to eat the same thing at that restaurant over and over again. Isn't that a waste? This is the sequel to CT, one of the greatest RPGs of all time. It should have character development. With tons of characters, you can't do that.

And yes I don't need to use every character, but it just feels so stupid that I have nine bazillionty characters in my roster that I never use.

CT was good, because even if there were some characters you didn't like, it wasn't a big deal, because you didn't have a billion characters. And on top of that, they weren't redundant. CC has tons of characters that are practically copy-and-pastes of other characters with different abilities. The only really unique ones I could find were Pip and Sprigg. I liked Pip. (And even then, he should have some backstory as to why he reacts to Elements like he does...) I can't say that for very many other characters in CC.

They should have simply stuck with one character of each element, (something like Serge, Kidd, Guile, (as Janus) Glenn, [an important Yellow character that I can't remember], [an important Blue character], and perhaps Pip as an optional character) and maybe another 6 characters (and Pip! :D) for the Lynx section, that merge when you revert, for a total of 13 characters. That would have been fine. I wouldn't mind that. But no, they needed to give us a billion characters, next to none of them having anything resembling a backstory or character development...

The point is: CT had character development. CC did not.

[LavosFan]

And if you have hundreds of eating options in a restaurant, (most of which are pretty much the exact same thing) won't you be overwhelmed and not know what to pick? Or sometimes, you'll just decide to eat the same thing at that restaurant over and over again. Isn't that a waste?

Thats exactly my point, its easier to find something you like if you have much more options. Once you do, you stick to what you like. It wouldn't be a waste because other people have different tastes and likes, therefore different people would choose different things. Unless we're all robots.

Isn't that a waste? This is the sequel to CT, one of the greatest RPGs of all time. It should have character development. With tons of characters, you can't do that.

What do you mean? CC has tons on development, on the important characters. If you make a list of the CC characters that have development, you'll be surprised to know its a big one. Sure, theres also tons of characters that arent even touched in this matter, but what difference does it make? If you suddenly added 30 more characters to Chrono Trigger, would the substance already present in characters liked Magus and Frog be lost? I think not.

And yes I don't need to use every character, but it just feels so stupid that I have nine bazillionty characters in my roster that I never use.

CT was good, because even if there were some characters you didn't like, it wasn't a big deal, because you didn't have a billion characters. And on top of that, they weren't redundant. CC has tons of characters that are practically copy-and-pastes of other characters with different abilities. The only really unique ones I could find were Pip and Sprigg. I liked Pip. (And even then, he should have some backstory as to why he reacts to Elements like he does...) I can't say that for very many other characters in CC.

I still dont see why it bothers you to have them there. There simply is no reason. Do you feel sorry for them? They're not real you know.
What if someone thought Pip was a useless character? would you be happy with Pip being removed?

They should have simply stuck with one character of each element, (something like Serge, Kidd, Guile, (as Janus) Glenn, [an important Yellow character that I can't remember], [an important Blue character], and perhaps Pip as an optional character) and maybe another 6 characters (and Pip! ) for the Lynx section, that merge when you revert, for a total of 13 characters.

Boring.

The point is: CT had character development. CC did not.

Serge had development, alot more than Crono actually.
Kid had development.
Harle
Lynx
All the Acacia Dragoons, including Radius, had development.
Fargo, Nikki and the mermaid(forgot her name) had development
Norris had some I guess
And a few others

There, I made the list 


And even characters that had none are cool, like for example my favorites are Doc and Funguy. I dont want them gone, I like them and Im glad someone thought of them and included them.

[Chocobo_Fan]

...Norris had character development? And, uh, Fargo, Nikki and Irenes did not have what I would call "character development"... They had one sidequest, that was not very heavy on their character development. I'm talking about CT-esque character development, not some minor trace of some small thing that might pass off as character development.

Hm, yeah, let's see, about 8 or so characters out of forty-three have actual character development. Why...? This is an SE game, if they add new characters, they should give them characterization. And I'm not saying that they take away characterization from the others, it's that they're dead weight. There is simply no point to them. Like I said, there are characters that are copy-and-pastes. Yes, it's generally a good thing to have a lot of options to suit a wide audience, but really...

And how is Lavos's name do more options make it easier to find something?! If you have a library with a million books, and you only want one, then it's going to take you much, much longer to find it than if the library had, say, a hundred books. If we just stick with a couple characters all the time, what is the point of all that dead weight?!

Thirteen characters are boring? Oh, so if I copy-and-pasted those thirteen to make forty-three and gave them slightly different techs, that would make you happier? I am not kidding here, copy-and-pastes.

And of course Serge had more development, Crono was pretty much the only character in CT who didn't have any. If you compare 1 to 0, that's still more, right? Serge was confusing, though. Like Zipp says, CC takes so many plot twists that even it doesn't know where it's going anymore.

And I can understand why people could think Pip is useless -- unless you have a guide, you're not going to have a clue what's up with his transformations and his regular form's stats are pretty low. Oh, and there's that annoying bug that if you don't evolve him to his final form before you start fighting the dragons, he doesn't get any element grid extensions. The reason I like him is because I know how to raise him properly and he can be extremely versatile depending on what you evolve him into. And it bothers me to have them because, like I said, they're dead weight. All that extra space could go to expanding the game and making it more interesting, instead of doing this:

copy-and-paste
*copy-and-pastes*
copy-and-paste
*copy-and-pastes*
copy-and-paste
*copy-and-pastes*
copy-and-paste

See? Look how much space I just wasted there!

The point is, you don't need all these characters. CT had everything you needed -- a black mage, a white mage, a fighter, a paladin, a tank, and an ace-of-all-trades. The only redundant characters were Lucca/Janus, but they still managed to be rather different and *gasp* they actually had backstory and development!

Compare that to CC, where we have about 7 of each type minus the ace-of-all trades. -.- Plus Pip, and then Serge is the ace-of-all trades. Everyone else can fit into one of those categories. That's why I like Pip so much: He's the only character who has a truly unique fighting style. Everyone else is a copy-and-paste of the CT crew, minus the character development and backstory. (sans Serge, Lynx, Harle, Kidd, Radius, and Karsh for the development/backstory part)

[V_Translanka]

Serge had development, alot more than Crono actually.

Serge had more Character Development than Crono? Gimmie a break. Like I've said a dozen times before: At least Crono had a fuggin SURPRISED SPRITE! Serge in RADICAL DREAMERS, yes. CC? No.

All the Acacia Dragoons, including Radius, had development.

I don't see any of them having very much Character Development besides maybe Karsh & Radius...Glenn to an even lesser degree...I mean, c'mon, ZOAH!? You are wrong. But then again, you just say 'had development' not had a good degree of development...but even then, with Zoah you're still wrong.

And yeah, Irenes had SOOOOO much development that you couldn't even remember her name. Oh wait, or maybe it was because she was another completely forgettable character! >_>

[LavosFan]

I'm talking about CT-esque character development

And what exactly is this? What so fantastic about the stories of the CT characters that puts all other game stories to shame? I seriously dont see it. The only one that truly is outstanding is Magus/Janus. But thats just one guy.

Hm, yeah, let's see, about 8 or so characters out of forty-three have actual character development. Why...?

Doesnt CT only have 7 playable characters? So what if the other 30 characters are there for nothing. Even if they take up space. How come Pip doesnt waste space. I think its pretty hypocritical to say that they should have ditched all meaningless characters and at the same time you want Pip to stay, when Pip is pretty meaningless itself. I dont have anything against Pip, but I'm just trying to make you see the situation I'M in.

And how is Lavos's name do more options make it easier to find something?! If you have a library with a million books, and you only want one, then it's going to take you much, much longer to find it than if the library had, say, a hundred books. If we just stick with a couple characters all the time, what is the point of all that dead weight?!

Well, maybe I should rephrase it, its not easier, but it gives you more probabilities to find what you like. I, for instance, have no special love for any CT character. I like them alot, but I dont LOVE <3 <3 <3 them. Its just 40 something characters anyways, not a million . And the library analogy doesnt work, considering its pretty easy to find books in a library despite of how many books it contains, plus, big libraries are way better than small libraries.

And of course Serge had more development, Crono was pretty much the only character in CT who didn't have any. If you compare 1 to 0, that's still more, right? Serge was confusing, though. Like Zipp says, CC takes so many plot twists that even it doesn't know where it's going anymore.

Plot twists? What plot twists? Out of my head, I can only think of 3, when Lynx changes bodies with you, when you find out the Dragod God thing was manipulating you into destroying FATE, and when you find out Belthasar was pulling all the strings. I find other stuff like the nature of the Dead Sea and the DBT alot more intriguing and difficult to understand than this plot twists.

and I can understand why people could think Pip is useless -- unless you have a guide, you're not going to have a clue what's up with his transformations and his regular form's stats are pretty low. Oh, and there's that annoying bug that if you don't evolve him to his final form before you start fighting the dragons, he doesn't get any element grid extensions.

Like I said before, I have nothing against Pip, I think hes pretty cool, wether hes meaningful to the plot or if he has development, thats another thing. But even if hes not, that doesnt bother me, it does seem to bother you though. Thats why I think its hypocritical from your part.

The point is, you don't need all these characters. CT had everything you needed -- a black mage, a white mage, a fighter, a paladin, a tank, and an ace-of-all-trades. The only redundant characters were Lucca/Janus, but they still managed to be rather different and *gasp* they actually had backstory and development!

And you dont need the internet! nor you need any of this video games. All you need is food and shelter. And yet we have invented an amazing amount of conveniences. If I wanted the same type of game you describe, then I would go back to the 90s and play them all again. I did recently played FFIV since i somehow hadn't played that one before and it bore me to death.

Compare that to CC, where we have about 7 of each type minus the ace-of-all trades. -.- Plus Pip, and then Serge is the ace-of-all trades. Everyone else can fit into one of those categories. That's why I like Pip so much: He's the only character who has a truly unique fighting style. Everyone else is a copy-and-paste of the CT crew, minus the character development and backstory. (sans Serge, Lynx, Harle, Kidd, Radius, and Karsh for the development/backstory part)

lol, you say this like if CT was the first game ever. Anyways. You seem to agree that a handful of CC characters had backstory and development. So whatever, youre obviously a CT fan and nothing I say will change your mind.

To be fair, I think CT is a fantastic game and it changed the gaming world forever, but I see CC on the same level.


EDIT: a new post while I was writing all that. Lets see.

Serge had more Character Development than Crono? Gimmie a break. Like I've said a dozen times before: At least Crono had a fuggin SURPRISED SPRITE! Serge in RADICAL DREAMERS, yes. CC? No.

At least Serge had a Story. Crono woke up and went on an adventure.

don't see any of them having very much Character Development besides maybe Karsh & Radius...Glenn to an even lesser degree...I mean, c'mon, ZOAH!? You are wrong. But then again, you just say 'had development' not had a good degree of development...but even then, with Zoah you're still wrong.

Acacia Dragoons + Radius - Zoah. Whatever, whats your point? What ive been trying to say is that CC has alot of meaningless characters but they arent doing any harm to anyone, so I dont see why people hate the fact that it had so many. In fact, the only possibility is that someone might like any of them. You saying that Zoah is another one in the "endless" list of forgettable, meaningless characters makes no difference, and it doesnt contradict what I'm trying to say.

And yeah, Irenes had SOOOOO much development that you couldn't even remember her name. Oh wait, or maybe it was because she was another completely forgettable character! >_>

I have bad memory? maybe? Sure, shes forgettable, yet, i still see no relevance in your entire post.

[Chocobo_Fan]

Le sigh... I'm sick of arguing. We're both adamant and going nowhere fast. Let's just stop, 'kay? You can argue with V if you want, but...

One last thing though: I liked Pip not because he had a good backstory, (read: none) but because he was a unique character in a sea of redundant copy-and-pastes. Backstory-wise, yes, Pip sucks. But battle-wise, I like him.

But eh. Like I said, I don't feel like arguing anymore.

[V_Translanka]

Having a history isn't Character Development. So Serge still fails to Crono in that department.

If there are characters that are meaningless they should remain NPCs (the lame characters would have been GREAT NPCs). Add to that the fact that there's also no reason for them to join Serge's quest (especially since for so much of it he barely has reason to be on it)...the fact is that they aren't necessary as playable characters. If you're going to make a playable character, why not go out of your way to flesh them out? Giving them unique accents when they all say the exact same thing is not enough.

[MagilsugaM]

More dual and triple tech!
That's it!

[mav]

After reading all the "arguing" going on here, the post above mine totally made my day.

This poll had way too many good options: getting rid of the funny accents is necessary (moi demands it...), Zoah needed pants, or something, and the roster was a bit large, but still fun to mess around with.

My vote came down to fewer playable characters. I always felt that instead of always being able to use any of the 40 characters, some of them should have been temporary: you help them out with whatever their problem, or they help you, and then there out of the party, or they just stay in their world. Did I need a freaking turnip on my team? Or a little space man? Not really, I used them once at the most and generally stuck to five or ten characters. And on top of that, a lot of the good characters were a little too interchangeable. Whatever though, I guess people joining in on the cause was kinda realistic...


And as far as all this character development (or lack thereof) goes, this statement summed it up perfectly:

Having a history isn't Character Development.

[LavosFan]

*sigh
Im sick of arguing too, so I'll just say it once again. Even if CC sucks as much as you people say, removing a bunch of characters wouldn't "fix" the game. Its major flaws would still be there. Lets say that Serge sucks. So we remove ZOAH and, lo and behold! Serge suddenly doesn't suck anymore! Do you seriously believe that if they removed the useless characters the remaining ones would suddenly look better? The only thing that was going to make them better was spending more time developing them. But ditching characters doesn't translate into more developing for the remaining ones. I just dont see the point in wanting to remove characters you don't use, since it would help in no way.

Would the story be explained any easier? No. Would Crono and the crew suddenly be back? No. Would my character roster become smaller? YES it would! wow, suddenly Chrono Cross makes sense to me.

[V_Translanka]

Well, tbh, I didn't say CC sucks...I also don't think I just said to remove the lame characters...Relegating them to NPCs, though, would make their glaring lack of good Character Development matter less though...Adding Character Development for all of the characters would be a bad move too since there are so many of them that it would detract from the main storyline & such...The cast should be cut down AND THEN that smaller cast should thus gain more focus for character development. So, in a way, you're right...doing one or the other just isn't enough.

[mav]

Yeah, I don't hate Chrono Cross or any of the characters, I just felt that there were too few that didn't get the spotlight they deserved, since they had to share it with some of the more worthless characters. And I agree that removing one character doesn't make the others look better, but don't you think that there were a handful of characters that you'd never use seriously? The real reason I'd want a smaller roster was cause some of those characters really had no purpose in the game. Removing Zoah shouldn't be done to help Serge look good, but removing NeoFio, to give time for more development of Zoah's storyline on character wouldn't be too bad, in my opinion.

That's why I think some of those blokes should have been temporarily playable: we wouldn't care if they lacked a phenomenal storyline and we wouldn't have to feel too bad about never using them. The large roster was fun, some times around, but it could become slightly overwhelming. In fact, the first time I played through, I loved having that many characters, so I could try and find different double techs and whatnot, but by the latter playthroughs of the game, I wished I didn't have to waste time with some characters so I could find out more about the characters I liked. Not knowing enough about the fallout between Fargo and Viper will always piss me off.


Then again, who is to say that removing one character would allow the developers to give some of the other characters more storyline? If that's what you're saying, LavosFan, then I can understand why you'd think removing characters is a pretty worthless suggestion.

EDIT: And the fact that they had so many characters to the point that they had to scrap putting Magus in the game really pissed me off. If losing a handful of unnecessary characters could have put Magus, a character who is arguably the most memorable in a series, into Cross, it would have been a welcomed decision, in my opinion.

[Shadow D. Darkman]

-Incorporate Compendium theories and wherever CT Compendium theories would affect CC.

-Bring back Magus. Leave Guile in if necessary, if not, replace him with Magus.

-Give Serge some speech. (Not RD Serge. CC Serge kicks ass with the Mastermune)

-Use CT Battle System.

-FILL IN THOSE DAMN PLOTHOLES, YOU SICK F***S!!!

[Delta Dragon]

-Incorporate Compendium theories and wherever CT Compendium theories would affect CC.

-Bring back Magus. Leave Guile in if necessary, if not, replace him with Magus.

-Give Serge some speech. (Not RD Serge. CC Serge kicks ass with the Mastermune)

-Use CT Battle System.

-FILL IN THOSE DAMN PLOTHOLES, YOU SICK F***S!!!

Personally I prefer the CC battle system.