Author Topic: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis  (Read 3684 times)

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2008, 12:16:42 pm »
Two things to note:

1) The original analysis was written before CTDS was even mentioned, let alone released. Speaks a little of my abilities to analyze, since I thought Dalton was the least likely but he turns out to be the cause (though I am curious if Kato might have been retconning a bit there).

2) We don't know in what time period Dalton began the downfall of Guardia. Might have been in 1000, might have been in 600, he might have traveled between the two, etc. Thus, he might have taken over Porre before the Mayor we saw in CT ever came to power.

yujinishuge

  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2008, 12:31:04 pm »
Two things to note:

1) The original analysis was written before CTDS was even mentioned, let alone released. Speaks a little of my abilities to analyze, since I thought Dalton was the least likely but he turns out to be the cause (though I am curious if Kato might have been retconning a bit there).

2) We don't know in what time period Dalton began the downfall of Guardia. Might have been in 1000, might have been in 600, he might have traveled between the two, etc. Thus, he might have taken over Porre before the Mayor we saw in CT ever came to power.

1) yea... ok  makes sense

2) Dalton is found in the dimensional vortex, 1000AD, which we know exits to 1000AD.  Guardia ends in 1005AD.  It's pretty clear that he starts in 1000AD or sometime after. 

One might say(to argue against me).. how did he get there in the first place?  Doesn't his presence in 1000AD prove that he knows how to time travel? 

Sure, but it certainly wouldn't be hard to explain (that he's stuck in 1000AD).  He was standing on the epoch when he was sucked into his portal, and originall that's the last we saw of him.  Perhaps his proximity with the epoch, Lucca's gate key or the pendant, or all three made the portal end up there.  It wouldn't be so difficult to suggest that he was stranded in 1000AD. 

But then again, if the makers want him to be able to travel time at will, then that won't be too hard either.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 12:59:12 pm by yujinishuge »

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2008, 12:42:38 pm »
2) Dalton is found in the dimensional vortex, 1000AD, which we know exits to 1000AD.  Guardia ends in 1005AD.  It's pretty clear that he starts in 1000AD or sometime after.  One might say.. how did he get there in the first place?  Doesn't his presence in 1000AD prove that he knows about time travel?  Sure, but it certainly wouldn't be hard to explain.  He was standing on the epoch when he was sucked into his portal, and originall that's the last we saw of him.  Perhaps his proximity with the epoch, Lucca's gate key or the pendant, or all three made the portal end up there.  It wouldn't be so difficult to suggest that he was stranded in 1000AD.  But then again, it wouldn't be so difficult to suggest otherwise.

No, his presence does not prove that he knows about time travel any more than Marle's appearance originally in 600 AD proves that she knew about time travel. But it does seem probable (since one would otherwise suspect he was stranded in 12,000 BC, hence the reason he used to be thought to have been an unlikely candidate for the fall of Guardia). The difficulty is in the manner of his transportation. Was it a one-way trip? Can he travel through time at will? etc.

He vowed to destory Guardia in 1000ish, but if he has access to time travel, then the when is questionable.

utunnels

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2798
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2008, 12:46:00 pm »
Maybe that will never have a clear answer until we know the origin of those Dimentional Votices.
Maybe they have something to do with Dalton's time travel.

yujinishuge

  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2008, 12:55:46 pm »

No, his presence does not prove that he knows about time travel any more than Marle's appearance originally in 600 AD proves that she knew about time travel. But it does seem probable (since one would otherwise suspect he was stranded in 12,000 BC, hence the reason he used to be thought to have been an unlikely candidate for the fall of Guardia). The difficulty is in the manner of his transportation. Was it a one-way trip? Can he travel through time at will? etc.

He vowed to destory Guardia in 1000ish, but if he has access to time travel, then the when is questionable.

That's exactly what I was saying.  I think he has no idea how to travel through time and he's stranded in 1000AD.  Otherwise, why bother with Porre?  Go back to Zeal and kill Crono's crew while they are in captivity!.

Dark Serge

  • Time Traveler (+800)
  • *
  • Posts: 882
  • Now, let love bleed...
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2008, 02:20:41 pm »
It could be that he's more of the kind of person that likes to attack the heart. Kill those who are close to them, in order to get to them. But I agree, it seems unlikely that he is able to time travel. It's impossible without gates or a time machine.

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2008, 03:19:48 pm »
But I agree, it seems unlikely that he is able to time travel. It's impossible without gates or a time machine.

Ah, but how did he get from 12,000BC to 1000AD? Time travel. Perhaps he fell into the Temporal Vortex from the Golem Catastrophe, perhaps not; without more information, it is difficult to say when.

Dark Serge

  • Time Traveler (+800)
  • *
  • Posts: 882
  • Now, let love bleed...
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2008, 04:54:57 pm »
But I agree, it seems unlikely that he is able to time travel. It's impossible without gates or a time machine.

Ah, but how did he get from 12,000BC to 1000AD? Time travel. Perhaps he fell into the Temporal Vortex from the Golem Catastrophe, perhaps not; without more information, it is difficult to say when.

Yes but that doesn't mean he's able to time travel. Same thing with the Guru's. Just because they fell into a timegate at one point in their lives doesn't mean they can timetravel (except for Belthasar who has in fact a time machine, and maybe Gaspar by using the gates)

FaustWolf

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8974
  • Fan Power Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2008, 12:04:02 am »
...which brings me to a rather sinister question --

Oh snap! There's a Picard facepalm smiley officially incorporated into the forums now!! I just noticed this.

Ahem, where was I? Oh, yeah -- could the Fall of Guardia have been necessary for the completion of Project Kid in any way? CT:DS hints that Eclipse Magus may have been working in tandem with Belthasar, Magus trying to reach the DBT and Belthasar just trying to get Schala awake so she could hear Serge's cry and create Kid. Who else might Belthasar have been working with to lay the exact conditions most conducive to Project Kid?

Dalton's time traveling capabilities would be much augmented with Belthasar's help, no? Maybe he lent our Dalton a "Neo Dalton Imperial"? The Germans sent Lenin to Russia during WWI with the great hope that he would start a socialist revolution there...

utunnels

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2798
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2008, 12:41:29 am »
Belthasar again? Oh, that must be a cruel story.


Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2008, 11:29:07 am »
Well it would seem Guardia had to fall for the Masamune to get into El Nido (and possibly for it to be corrupted). It was thus needed to delay Serge and the others for a time.

Still, it is hard to believe Belthasar would engineer the downfall of Guardia just to get a stop sign.

As a side note, if the Temporal Vortex exists outside the normal flow of time (that is, if it is like The End of Time and subject only to Time Error, and not Normal Time), then he could have well existed it in any period.