Author Topic: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT  (Read 1507 times)

Thought

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Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« on: May 09, 2008, 06:42:23 pm »
Did Crono & Co re-introduce the concept of magic to humanity after Chrono Trigger?

It is noted by Sneff and Guile that there is a band of magicians on the mainland; I always took this to mean that they used elements, or performed parlor tricks, but Sneff displays real magical powers that are not the result of elements. The levitation in his performance could still be a trick, but changing Serge & Squad into cats is "real" magic that does not correlate to an element or a tech. Furthermore, he took on apprentices who already knew how to use elements (indeed, the two actually explain a lot of it to Serge & Squad early in the game), which indicates that what he was teaching them was not how to use elements. In short, Sneff seems to know a brand of magic that is totally apart from dragonian Elements and this knowledge appears to be teachable (or, at least, the thinks it is).

Might this then be an indication that upon returning to 1000AD, Crono, Marle, and/or Lucca began teaching people how to use magic again? Prior to CT, the ability still seemed to be in humans but the knowledge of it was forgotten. After CT, it looks like this ability might have started to awaken again.

Also, to note, it seems rather unlikely that before the dimensional split many elements would have made it outside of El Nido unless Crono & Co had already re-introduced it.

FATE was controlling everyone and everything; if its future was one where magic wasn't present, then letting elements get out of El Nido would have drastically altered that future. FATE would in turn have used the Records of Fate to prevent people from selling, giving, or probably even displaying elements in front of outsiders. However, if at the end of CT Crono & Co did start teaching magic, and it was in a magic-ful future that FATE was constructed, then letting elements get out of El Nido wouldn't have been so detrimental to FATE's purpose.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 06:47:44 pm by Thought »

V_Translanka

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2008, 06:56:17 pm »
Well, people still had magical abilities, just w/o access to Magic itself, which needs to be unlocked. I mean, taking Crono for example, he had Slash, which is magical in that it works similar to Magic and effects monsters as a magic attack.

Doesn't Sneff say he learned the cat changing trick from a Mystic or something weird like that? I forget his exact wording...But anyways, just because he doesn't have it as an available Tech, I don't think that means it's something other than a Tech...I mean, in CC, characters are limited to just 3 Techs after all, right?

I don't think there IS any way that Crono & Co. even could have taught anyone how to use Magic...It's possible that their children could have inherited their unlocked Magic ability, but other than that? idk...

Chrono'99

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 05:19:34 pm »
Are you sure Sneff was teaching Solt and Peppor how to cast magic? If I recall correctly, the two were juggling swords and practicing jokes, but no magic tricks. As for Sneff, his ability was unlocked thanks to Sprigg, a Mystic:
Quote
Sneff:
You had me worried...!!!
I had to lie down a bit
because I strained my back
running...
I'm sorry, ffolks.
Actually, there's absolutely
no trick behind that magic.
An old troll gave me a
mysterious berry during
my travels, long ago.
She was saying someffing
about the Bend of Time...

Anyway, affter I ate the berry,
I was able to transfform people
into cats.
I wish I could change you
back to your human fform,
but my achin' back...
I'll need to lie down a bit,
so you'll have to stay that
way ffor a while.
I hope you understand...

Originally I thought this old troll could be Spekkio, but since she's female it's more likely to be Sprigg.

The topic of the "Magic Guild", as it's called by Sneff, is difficult to talk about because Guile is at the core of it. Guile, Sprigg, Sneff and the Fortune Teller from Termina are all part of that Magic Guild, and Sprigg (= Mystic) apparently knows of the Bend of Time... the place where Ozzie, Slash and Flea lurk. In my opinion, all these details make it highly possible that this guild could have just been Magus' "party" when Guile was still meant to be Magus. Guile's identity was obviously changed, but how much of the rest was changed?

Sneff states that Guile is the "rising star" in the guild, which means Guile probably wasn't its creator though. Perhaps some Mystics simply decided to teach some humans magic at one point and this became the Magic Guild. This might have happened after Bandeau decided to create the Truce-Medina Ferry in 1000 A.D., as seen in CT.

FaustWolf

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2008, 05:58:06 pm »
Fascinating post, Chrono'99. Seems to be a remnant of a subplot, sort of like how Serge was supposed to merge with the Time Devourer at some point...
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 05:59:37 pm by FaustWolf »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2009, 02:45:53 am »
There's good analysis here that I'll put in a theory page about the Magic Guild. As for reintroducing magic:

Quote
Belthasar:
   There, I seized the opportunity
   to study the science of the
   future...
   I was then able to apply to that
   the knowledge I brought from my
   own era, including magic, which
   was long lost in the future.
   Anyway, this led me to make
   huge progress in the research
   of time.

Still, it's possible magic was reintroduced and lost again, but we've got people from Medina working at Chronopolis (and even with that, Belthasar's magic was still remarkable).

utunnels

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 11:49:58 pm »
Well, now I begin to think, what's the difference between Element and Magic, if not consider game play.
The question is, why does Lavos/Time Devourer also use Elements? Where are those cool Lavos moves?

Licawolf

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 01:43:57 am »
Maybe the Time Devourer's techs were different from those used by Lavos because they were partly powered by Schala's magic?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 02:00:40 am »
While it could be true Schala may be the one behind those new techs, they couldn't possibly be Elements in that case.

Most likely, they went with elements for gameplay reasons. It probably was too much trouble to program a different skillset unrelated to Elements for just one enemy. Not to mention, they had to make it even harder to get the good ending by having the Time Devourer cast elements as well to screw with you on the sequence.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2011, 02:40:27 am »
Maybe the Time Devourer saw Elements as a unique power source and absorbed them to use for itself. Obviously using the magic and techs we're familiar with in Trigger didn't work, or else it wouldn't be the Time Devourer in the first place.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Non-Element Magic Re-introduced to humanity post CT
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2011, 02:57:57 am »
Maybe the Time Devourer saw Elements as a unique power source and absorbed them to use for itself. Obviously using the magic and techs we're familiar with in Trigger didn't work, or else it wouldn't be the Time Devourer in the first place.

Now that you mention it... the Dragon God. That could be where they came from. Absorbing the Dragon God allowed it to use it's Elements.