Author Topic: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?  (Read 4435 times)

FaustWolf

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"Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« on: May 03, 2008, 04:56:12 pm »
Does the Compendium have an official position on the veracity of the claims in this article?
http://www.cot.drackir.com/colony.htm

I find it intriguing and probable, my only concern being that we should have seen some evidence of a militarily-powerful Porre in Chrono Trigger's ending. Albeit, the only thing left was the Moonlight Parade by that point, and maybe everyone was too sloshed to worry about Porre's ambitions that night.

Thanks to pirofyre978 at GameFAQs for bringing up this article over there.

Thought

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2008, 12:26:28 pm »
Frog traveled to Choras in 600 AD to dispose of Cyrus' body. Seems like ocean worthy ships were available by then.

Also, Porre notibly seems to be a technological powerhouse; I'm not seeing much reliance on elements, so it seems unlikely that imports of elements are what helped it rise to power.

However, the article did get me thinking... I suspect I'll have more to post on this matter in a day or two.

V_Translanka

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2008, 06:17:36 pm »
While I'm not sure how into this whole idea of "The Compendium's Stance" I keep hearing about...I mean, each person pretty much just believes what they think makes the most sense, I think. Sure, a lot of us have discussed a lot of it, so we may know a little more about this or that subject concerning the series...but the Compendium as a whole having one sure-fire answer for every single little topic? I don't think so...

But, anyways...there is this Article about the Rise of Porre that you may find helpful...

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/The_Rise_of_Porre.html

Seriously, does no one use the top box's links but me?

Quote from: Thought
Frog traveled to Choras in 600 AD to dispose of Cyrus' body. Seems like ocean worthy ships were available by then.

I think he could have just swam there. We know he swam the distance of the Zenan Bridge...and, hell, he's pretty strong, right?


FaustWolf

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2008, 06:38:26 pm »
Sweeet, yes I should have looked there before posting this topic, thanks V. I was mainly interested in the elements, and the Compendium labels that theory as "the most likely of the few viable ones," so that definitely answers my question.

Ah well. Since most of the articles were written, we've gotten new members able to provide fresh and invaluable insight, so I find it most useful to bring up certain mysteries again.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2008, 11:31:31 pm by FaustWolf »

Thought

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2008, 07:04:37 pm »
I think he could have just swam there. We know he swam the distance of the Zenan Bridge...and, hell, he's pretty strong, right?

Maybe, but that is a lot of dead weight to be carrying... unless he waited until the body started to decompose, I suppose, and used the corpse-gas to make Cyrus a flotation device. But bodies DO decompose 4 times faster in water than on dry land (more or less depending on temperature, to be fair). Assuming the overworld map is of relative size to earth, Cyrus' body would have been goo by the time Frog got to Choras (assuming about 2 or 3 weeks of swimming). Still... that would make it easier for him to sneak the "body" into the Northern Ruins too.

VincentGAU8

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 04:23:19 am »
Also, Porre notibly seems to be a technological powerhouse; I'm not seeing much reliance on elements, so it seems unlikely that imports of elements are what helped it rise to power.

but Guardia had a dragon tank, right? That seems to be more advanced than Porre's cannons and rifles.. But then, Chrono and Lucca thrashed it...

V_Translanka

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 05:35:15 am »
Quote from: Thought
Maybe, but that is a lot of dead weight to be carrying... unless he waited until the body started to decompose, I suppose, and used the corpse-gas to make Cyrus a flotation device. But bodies DO decompose 4 times faster in water than on dry land (more or less depending on temperature, to be fair). Assuming the overworld map is of relative size to earth, Cyrus' body would have been goo by the time Frog got to Choras (assuming about 2 or 3 weeks of swimming). Still... that would make it easier for him to sneak the "body" into the Northern Ruins too.

Well then in that case I still just don't think he'd need an ocean-liner-class ship just to haul Cyrus' body...I bet he could just strap him to a hunk of wood debris and work it...Maybe he managed to summon that giant frog from Frog Squash to help him out? lol

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 11:33:48 am »
Frog hired a one-eyed, peg-leg fisherman (wearing a yellow raincoat) to take him there.

Thought

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 12:57:08 pm »
Perchance did this fisherman have a grizzled appearance, possibly white stubble around his heavily scarred face, and maybe a parrot of some description.

Note: For the Dragon Tank, the instruction booklet was nearby. This implies that the Dragon Tank was new, and possibly an import (though to be fair, organizations do create inscrution books for their own use). While mechanically interesting, it would still be primarily an anti-infantry weapon. A few good cannons and crews on the opposing line should be able to mash it flat with some well placed shots. Additionally, something as simple-seeming as a rifle actually indicates a high level of technology, possibly higher than the dragon tank itself. For one, there has to be industrialization and standardization (often terms as replaceable parts). Rifling in turn is a fundamentally different conception of how the barrel of a gun is formed (technically, all guns today including rifling, to my knowledge). Puts a nice little spin on bullets for stability (which in turn also increases range). Then there is the Minie ball itself (aka, bullet), which is designed to expand when fired, forming relatively tight seal around the barrel, allowing for the exposition to provide greater thrust. Three very small improvements in technology that, when combined, can allow a rifle to be fired accurately at targets around a mile away.

Of course... the dragon tank had lasers and flamethrowers.

FaustWolf

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 01:23:17 pm »
Fascinating examination of the Dragon Tank; I had completely overlooked its implications. The Chrono Trigger Alpha had World War I-style airplanes flying over the 1000AD world map, and we can, perhaps, guess from this that Guardia was at an 1910~1920 real-world technology level.

Flamethrowers I can see, but how did Guardia get lasers...? Man, that's a conundrum.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 05:17:41 pm by FaustWolf »

Thought

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 01:58:08 pm »
I suppose those might not be actual lasers, insofar as we'd normally define lasers. I am reminded of old 80's cartoons; it is much flashier to represent bullets with beams of light (such as in G.I. Joe). Or, in turn, the does have a heavy "fantastical" influence. "Lasers" and "rays" weren't unheard of devices in comic books back in the time period (to my knowledge).

It is also a shadow attack, if I recall correctly, implying that it might be better termed plasma or some such, rather than actual light (which to me, at least, seems more akin to a lightning/sky/heaven element). Maybe a weaponized Tesla Coil put to military use. Lucca's machines do seem to have some laser like qualities (I am recalling specifically the processing of the sun stone).

As for Guardia... I've actually wondered for a while if in the alpha the millenia fair was happening in 1999 (hence the technology seen in pre-release versions, the mentions of earth quakes, and the fact that 1000 AD is the only era without a Lavos influence). If that was the case, I suspect it was reordered to make the apocalypse future more interesting. But totally unimportant for actual analysis.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2008, 04:47:39 pm »
Quote
As for Guardia... I've actually wondered for a while if in the alpha the millenia fair was happening in 1999 (hence the technology seen in pre-release versions, the mentions of earth quakes, and the fact that 1000 AD is the only era without a Lavos influence). If that was the case, I suspect it was reordered to make the apocalypse future more interesting. But totally unimportant for actual analysis.

That's actually my take on it.  I always thought the airplanes were awfully out of place in the demo (considering that 1000 AD was still a monarchy with limited technology - yeah, sure we see refrigerators and radios, but not once did I see evidence of electricity or transmittors).

As for the Dragon Tank - perhaps the best and the brightest (except for Lucca) helped make the Dragon Tank, much akin to a Chrono-equivalent Manhatten Project of sorts.  Perhaps Taban had a role in the creation of the Dragon Tank? (speculation, no doubt)

V_Translanka

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2008, 09:52:08 pm »
Quote from: Thinky
This implies that the Dragon Tank was new, and possibly an import

Quote from: CTRetranslation
To the Guardia Kingdom Prison Warden:

   Dragon Tank Blueprints

   An ability is installed in the Dragon Tank's head
   that recovers the damage the body takes.

   A shield that defends against Sky and Fire
   attribute skills is equipped to the head, so
   one cannot inflict damage except with attacks
   by weapons like swords or pistols.

   In other words, as long as the head is not
   broken by the attacks of swords, etc., you may
   consider the Dragon Tank unbeatable.
      From the Guardia Kingdom Development Dept.

There ya go, not an import! Gods I have to keep playing the CTRetranslation...

Quote from: Fausty
but how did Guardia get lasers...? Man, that's a conundrum.

Um...Magic! FTW?!?

Quote from: Thinky
It (the Dragon Tank's laser attack) is also a shadow attack, if I recall correctly, implying that it might be better termed plasma or some such, rather than actual light (which to me, at least, seems more akin to a lightning/sky/heaven element).

Well, Robo's lasers are also Shadow...and we know that Guardia was able to create anti-Heaven/Lightning & anti-Fire armor for the Dragon Tank...

Quote from: Booey...?
but not once did I see evidence of electricity or transmittors

What about the lighting? I don't recall a lot of candles everywhere (although I suppose a lot of that could just be natural lighting as seen w/Crono's room)...or how about the Telepod? Plenty of electricity there...there's also Gato...it's possible to think Robo is at least partly steam-powered, but I didn't think such was possible for Gato...

It's also interesting to note that the Dragon Tank has regenerative abilities...Now THAT'S a TANK! Although Swords and Guns are it's only weakness??? Hey, that implies that they had guns even back then! Oh yeah, you can buy guns there, can't you? Well, it also happens to mean that Guardia's Development Dept. obviously wasn't working w/a full set back then, so maybe that continued and that's why Porre was able to overthrow...They just made stuff w/o horrible, horrible flaws! lol
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 10:06:28 pm by V_Translanka »

Thought

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 04:14:18 pm »
Well, Robo's lasers are also Shadow...and we know that Guardia was able to create anti-Heaven/Lightning & anti-Fire armor for the Dragon Tank...

Good point. Still, what were they thinking?

Developer #1: "Gee, we have this attack that is essentially focused light. What element should it be?"
Developer #2: "I know... DARK!"
Developer #1: "A light based weapon causes Dark Elemental damage? Makes sense to me! There we go, perfectly logical. And no plot holes, to boot."
Developer #2: "What about Marle causing herself to disappear?"
Developer #1: "Yup, perfectly logical..."

V_Translanka

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Re: "Corridors of Time" Rise of Porre theory -- yea or nay?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2008, 06:14:34 pm »
Maybe that's why there should be a difference between Lightning & Heaven...? Since Robo's (& the Dragon Tank's?) electric-based (/or steam-based, for that matter) attacks wouldn't be coming from the heavens, right?