Crono vs. Serge

[x_XTacTX_x]

Serge would win, as he is the Arbiter of the Frozen Flame. The arbiter can use the Frozen Flame. Serge's Strongest Tech is stronger than Crono's. If Serge is at 99* we won't even have a fight. Serge will just rape Chrono. Not only is Luminaire Serge's lvl 5 tech skill, but you still have to deal with his high level magics like Holy light and Saints, not to mention he's going to peg Crono up to 6 times before even launching a skill. Plus that, Serge's master weapon is a STRONGER version of Masamune, and is a lot stronger then Then Crono's rainbow gear.

THANK YOU.


You see, you have the ability to also outfit Serge with Rainbow armour entirely, and if I remmber correctly in trigger you are only given the choice of one rainbow dress or three rainbow helms.

And if I may add one more thing, Crono's element in lightning. In the world of CC, that would make him a yellow innate and all Serge would have to do is equip the Yellow Plate. ANd I'm guessing if he's maxed out, that you've just finished a New Game + and that you've got to have at least one.

[Kebrel]

Is real magic more powerful them elements, never is it stated that it is. And anyone could use it, but Crono doesn't, Any one could use a gun but many don't.

[V_Translanka]

f I remmber correctly in trigger you are only given the choice of one rainbow dress or three rainbow helms.

You can Charm more from Zeal's final form's hands...and Crono doesn't wear dresses!!!

And if I may add one more thing, Crono's element in lightning. In the world of CC, that would make him a yellow innate and all Serge would have to do is equip the Yellow Plate.

We don't have any idea if or how Magic Elements of CT correlates to the Dragonian Elements of CC. In fact, Crono's Element is Heaven, which, by your logic would make him a White & Yellow combo. And I don't recall Serge being able to get a Light Yellow plate, do you?

Is real magic more powerful them elements, never is it stated that it is.

I don't see how the one-shot Dragonian Elements could be more powerful than actual Magic...*shrugs* I suppose you could make a case if you wanted though...

And anyone could use it, but Crono doesn't

It's said in CC even a child can equip an Element...we don't know that Crono doesn't use them because we never see him in the world where the Dragonians had come into play to make the Elements available in the first place...But if Serge & Crono are going to fight, it'd have to be during Serge's time, right? So Elements would be completely available to both of them.

[x_XTacTX_x]

There's only one true way to settle this:

Get Masato Kato and Akira Toriyama to play the new Card Sagas game. Toriyama can be Crono, and Kato could be Serge.

V_Translanka, you put up many good points and show great knowledge, and I admire that, but that is the only way we could TRULY know. I mean, who better to play then the character's designer's right?

[V_Translanka]

1) I don't know wtf that is...2) why pit Toriyama, the character designer for Crono in Trigger versus Kato, basically the story planner for both games? What kind of sense would that make? I'm guessing it was mostly a jokey post though...but still...w/e...

[x_XTacTX_x]

1) Card Sagas Wars. A bunch of people ar eusing the fighting game creator "Gaiden" to make a fighting game with an ASSLOAD of game charcters, several of which include Chrono characters.

2) My bad, I meant to say Nobuteru Yuki. :/

And yeah, I know it wouldn't really make any sense that way, I was just kidding around.

[VincentGAU8]

I'm for Chrono.. i don't see any advantages there is in elements over inherent magic, other than you could strike with different elements, and is therefore more versatile.. But i think as a character Serge wins.. Chrono is your typical muscular guy who just decides to save the world, not much of a back story around him, unlike Serge..

[V_Translanka]

Unlike Serge who's an emotionless husk & a terrible douche? Like I've said for years now...at least Crono had a fuggin surprised sprite!

[VincentGAU8]

Unlike Serge who's an emotionless husk & a terrible douche? Like I've said for years now...at least Crono had a fuggin surprised sprite!

oh, yeah, i forgot about Chrono's surprised sprite.. oh well, both were undeniably mute, no, just silent, protagonists who barely had a personality, but still...,

[x_XTacTX_x]

Unlike Serge who's an emotionless husk & a terrible douche? Like I've said for years now...at least Crono had a fuggin surprised sprite!

oh, yeah, i forgot about Chrono's surprised sprite.. oh well, both were undeniably mute, no, just silent, protagonists who barely had a personality, but still...,

What if they were both Robots?

[Avalon]

I've always believed that the power of a character is representative of whom is playing him. There is the obvious distinction that some characters are clearly better than others, and in RPGs stats are easy to figure out, I'm aware, but when comparing separate games with styles as different as trigger and cross, it really comes down to the skill of the person manipulating them, and setting them up for battle, since really, not everything has a canon. What level are either at when the player finishes the game? It'll vary depending on who is in control of the character.

I did however, vote for Chrono, since even with Magus on the team, he was my go to guy. (Unless I was fighting Zeal or Dalton, in which case I would put Frog and Ayla on the team...) Serge failed at this in Cross. He didn't clearly surpass my Glenn until new game plus, at which point I chose to go with saving Kid, and Glenn obviously fell into disuse.

[MDenham]

Obviously if we're kitting out Serge as best as possible (and disregarding Elements), we're running either the White or Yellow Plate (depends on your opinion), Mastermune, Sunglasses, Moonglasses, and one other accessory of our choice.  Maybe a second set of Sunglasses, though how he's wearing three pair of glasses at the same time, I have no idea (it ranks up there with only being allowed one earring, though ).

If he's limited to either the Sunglasses or Moonglasses, we go with the Moon ones and fight a much more defensive battle - which means the Chrono Cross to recharge elements once, a metric asston of Recharges as well (mostly to recharge the Chrono Cross ), a bunch of healing elements, and Saints (which, while it'll do lousy damage to Crono, will still heal Serge back up to full).  The other two accessories in this case are a pair of Defender Pluses or Winged Shoes, mostly for the Evade +24/36% (sorry, but Def+6/MDef+4 isn't gonna do much here compared to an extra 1-in-4 or 1-in-3 chance of an attack completely missing; it might make up for the 12% difference between the two setups, though).

Yes, I know, this will come across as a pansy-ass method of fighting, especially for those people who found Pierre in CC absolutely without merit (never mind that Pierre, properly equipped, has 42%+ in Evade).  At least I'm not suggesting giving Serge Ghetz's Shirt and 3x Winged Shoes, for Evade 104%...

[V_Translanka]

we're running either the White or Yellow Plate (depends on your opinion)

It would also be taking into account that Serge would somehow have to know ahead of time what Crono's Magic was and what it would correspond to as an Elemental Innate...and whether or not that would even factor in to either Plate's effectiveness.

Sunglasses, Moonglasses...Maybe a second set of Sunglasses, though how he's wearing three pair of glasses at the same time, I have no idea (it ranks up there with only being allowed one earring, though Very Happy).

Uh, he can't...you can't even equip both the Sunglasses & Moonglasses at the same time, much less a second set of either.

Chrono Cross to recharge elements once

If you think that the Plates would help somehow, then Crono's Techs (or his own set of Elements) would certainly disrupt the Elemental Field...so the Chrono Cross would be a waste of time...

Because like I've said before...Any Element Serge can equip, Crono can...and probably better...!

[MDenham]

Chrono Cross to recharge elements once

If you think that the Plates would help somehow, then Crono's Techs (or his own set of Elements) would certainly disrupt the Elemental Field...so the Chrono Cross would be a waste of time...

Because like I've said before...Any Element Serge can equip, Crono can...and probably better...!

The obvious exception being the Chrono Cross itself - and the entire purpose of it here is a one-shot "recharge all elements" (though, obviously, with the Recharges, he's getting it back repeatedly until he runs out - this gives him ~30 uses of everything he's got).  It then becomes a battle of attrition - can Serge run Crono out of MP and Elements before Serge runs out of Elements to use?  Serge has the (dubious, and only potential) advantage of summons, obviously - since we can't even agree on what innate Crono would be under the CC system, it's entirely possible that he can't use any of them because his innate doesn't directly match any of the existing ones (in which case the Plates are definitely useless, and we can either resort to the Ghetz's Shirt + 3x Winged Shoes for Evade +104% strategy [assuming Serge managed to find the Shirt hiding under a Gameshark, ha ha] or a Prism Vest).

If Crono's got a known innate, we have a 50-50 chance of being correct on it and thereby making the battle extremely long (especially if Crono is also innate White - at that point, it's basically "Serge resorts to an Imbecile/Genius/off-color element/CC or Recharge cycle" if not an outright draw) or being wrong and thereby requiring some manner of re-using high-powered healing Elements (HolyHealing, Saints, etc.).  Since if he's wrong, the worst case is Yellow Plate vs. White Crono (Saints is effectively useless other than for healing purposes and may just be a "reset battle" button in the absolute worst case), Serge has no reason to use anything other than a White Plate (mostly useless against Yellow Crono, moderately helpful against White Crono, and against "Canary" Crono...  about the same as Yellow Crono).  TurnWhite is always an option to force Crono's physical attacks to heal you in this case, though again, Serge would need to be able to change it repeatedly.  The Turn<color> Elements are useless to Crono except for the purpose of removing TurnWhite.

The other effect of the Chrono Cross, which is based on the element order, is entirely irrelevant to this fight, unless you're trying to imply that Crono is himself the Time Devourer.

Really, it looks like more likely than not it'd end in a draw (read: they get bored after an extremely long time of not really doing anything in the way of damage that lasts more than 3-4 rounds).

So, ideal setups for Serge to at least force a draw:

Mastermune in all setups
Elements: Imbecile, Numble, Nimble, BatEye, HiRes, MagNegate, assorted healing (including Saints), lots of Recharges, Chrono Cross, possibly Unicorn solely for MDef boosting
Evasion Setup: Ghetz's Shirt, 3x Winged Shoes; replace Nimble and BatEye with additional healing
Element-Using Setup: White Plate, Moonglasses, 2x Winged Shoes; add assorted attack elements and TurnWhite
Full Attack Setup: White Plate, Sunglasses, 2x Dragoon's Glory; add Strengthen, LoRes, EagleEye, TurnWhite

[V_Translanka]

Uh-oh! Crono had a White Plate too! Looks like Serge is screwed.