Author Topic: Lavos' / The Frozen Flame's role in human evolution  (Read 2051 times)

FaustWolf

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Lavos' / The Frozen Flame's role in human evolution
« on: February 10, 2008, 03:21:48 pm »
Thanks to Altimadark at GameFAQs for bringing this quote up from the NA Chrono Cross script. I'm not quite sure how to interpret Lavos' role in the development of humanity on the Chrono world, specifically -- did the Frozen Flame, in fact, splinter from Lavos' shell? Or did humans come into contact with Lavos itself? I'm aware that the Compendium officially espouses the former, but I wanted some feedback on these emphasized bits from the Dragonian Record in Cross:


   Among these, the dragon lizards
   and the more evolved Reptites
   thought they would reign over
   the earth forever.

   And for a long while it
   seemed that they would...

   However, the unforeseen
   coming of the mighty one from
   the heavens suddenly smashed
   their kingdom to pieces.

   That one was known as '"Lavos!"'
   The great crimson flame......

   
   Wielding absolute power,
   Lavos buried the dinosaurs -
   the kings of the land -
   in the space of a night.

   However, the timid '"apes"'
   who had lived hidden in
   the forests...
   
   ...came into contact with
   the crimsom flame
   that fell from the sky,
   and evolved into '"humans."'


   Or perhaps it was
   not '"evolution,"'
   but '"transformation."'



On first glance we would associate the words "crimson flame" with the Frozen Flame itself. Makes perfect sense. However, in the context of the record, "crimson flame" seems to be used as a descriptor of Lavos. So...

Lavos = "crimson flame"
Cavemen touched the "crimson flame"
Therefore, Cavemen touched Lavos.

BUT -- Lavos burrowed into the ground way too fast in CT for people to come into contact with Lavos directly -- hence the need for the Frozen Flame to splinter off Lavos during the impact event. ZeaLitY and others, can we attribute the bolded portions above to translation error?

ZeaLitY

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Re: Lavos' / The Frozen Flame's role in human evolution
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2008, 03:37:30 pm »
It probably doesn't have to be an error; the Dragonians weren't even around in prehistory, and Lavos might as well be inseparable from the Flame since it communicates his thoughts (as it does on Terra Tower). So, touching the Frozen Flame would be virtually touching Lavos and interacting with him. Just the translation style, I suppose.

FaustWolf

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Re: Lavos' / The Frozen Flame's role in human evolution
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2008, 03:55:18 pm »
Interesting, thanks! That clarifies the Compendium position for me, and technically fulfills the requirements of the scripts in both Chrono Cross and Radical Dreamers from what I've read.

Dombattag

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Re: Lavos' / The Frozen Flame's role in human evolution
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2008, 11:20:57 pm »
Perhaps the Frozen Flame broke off when Lavos entered the atmosphere, therefore "falling from the sky" as the quote says?

radicalblues

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Re: Lavos' / The Frozen Flame's role in human evolution
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 01:25:17 pm »
Come into contact with Lavos =/= touch Lavos.

They contacted him via the Frozen Flame. Which is why the theory of the Frozen Flame being inside the Mammon Machine is very likely, as Zealians were seduced by Lavos, but never really had met him directly until the Ocean Palace.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 01:27:15 pm by radicalblues »

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Lavos' / The Frozen Flame's role in human evolution
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 08:56:19 pm »
Yeah, those Zealians had no idea what they were messing with.  Well, the Guru's had a good idea that it was bad, but even THEY didn't REALLY know.

Chrono'99

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Re: Lavos' / The Frozen Flame's role in human evolution
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 06:59:10 am »
Interesting, thanks! That clarifies the Compendium position for me, and technically fulfills the requirements of the scripts in both Chrono Cross and Radical Dreamers from what I've read.

The quote in the first post is from the Dragonians, who never actually had a complete knowledge of the human dimension (pre-)history. For instance, the wall painting in the Dragon Tear room depicts the "crimson flame" as a Dreamstone instead of the Frozen Flame, and it shows the two moons even though it's an anachronism. See http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,3196.0.html also.

Because of these stuff, I always thought the Dragon God's rage against humans was based on flawed conceptions and did not reflect the Planet's will. The Planet knows all the events; the Dragon God doesn't know half of them.