Author Topic: Here's today's crackpot theroy from GameFAQs.  (Read 4902 times)

jotabe1789

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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2005, 11:41:58 pm »
Actually, don't they say somewhere in CC that Lynx Kidnapped her? I don't remember well, but he had some use for her. What we don't know is what he did with her after she outlived her usefulness.

Sentenal

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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2005, 01:13:33 am »
Yes, one of the CT 'ghosts' said kidnapped.

Eggith Cyrene

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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2005, 01:30:36 pm »
Well they are correctin at least one respect. CC is NOT a sequel to Chrono Trigger. Merely a gaiden Like Radical Dreamers.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2005, 01:52:43 pm »
Quote from: Eggith Cyrene
Well they are correctin at least one respect. CC is NOT a sequel to Chrono Trigger. Merely a gaiden Like Radical Dreamers.

Why "merely"?

V_Translanka

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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2005, 04:02:41 pm »
I believe you could replace "merely" w/"just" or "It is" or even a combination of the two..."It is just" or "It is merely"...take yer pick Chrono'99...but I'm sure there are other words that mean basically the same thing...

Beer Pope

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« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2005, 12:17:41 am »
Lynx kidnapped Lucca so she could disarm the prometheus circuit from FATE.

Umaro

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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2005, 10:34:51 pm »
I'm going to have to head over to GameFAQs and talk with this guy. I didn't bother reading his CC theories because, after I had finished the CT ones, it became apparant that his theories were based mostly the technicallities of video game logic.

To use the progression of the character's "levels" throughout CT as literal evidence of their strength is impossible. The level of the character's will vary at least a little from player to player, but more importantly numbers cannot be converted into actual measures of fighting prowess and strength.

Here's the best analogy I can come up with to try and explain this: powerlifters train to be able to lift outrageous amounts of weight in the basic movements of the bench press, dead lift, and squat. I know a guy who is 180 pounds(roughly)and can bench press 600 pounds like he's benching 100. 600 is mearly a number, though. You can translate benching 600 pounds into how well the guy fights.

In the same way, you can't say Lucca has "x" HP, "y" strength, and "z" magic and say she could tear Lynx apart. Those numbers are for judging the power of the characters for fighting in the game only and not for equating it to other scenarios outside those restrictions. The only things you count on are that Lucca has some kind of weapon magic spells. In which case, her best spell is Flare. Lynx has Forever Zero. I'd say he has the advantage.

That debunks his whole "omfg it makes no sense the CT characters should be able to kill Lynx lololol!!one1!!" theory.

As for the perpetual time loop theory he is, that is a matter of fact. There are three primary theories on the rules of time travel. The one CT uses is the time moves on a single path, hence, when the characters are in 12000 BC, time is not still moving in 1000 AD because the timeline only progresses as the time travellers know it. I'm not sure how he is using the items gradually getting better as time progresses as a way to disprove this. If anything, I see it as further solidifying the time moving on a single path theory.

I'll read those CC theories another time.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2005, 03:25:30 am »
Uh yeah, you.are.making.a.lot.of.sense.

Umaro

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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2005, 09:39:59 pm »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Uh yeah, you.are.making.a.lot.of.sense.


I know my analogy wasn't the best. The primary point I was trying to get across was that the character's levels shouldn't be taken literally. I don't see what was difficult to understand about the time moving on a single path argument.

I'm a sport, though. Go ahead and explain how my post didn't make sense. Maybe I'll be able to explain it better then. Or were you just going to keep being a noob and hide behind other people's arguments and tell me I'm wrong without any reason or explaination?

GrayLensman

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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2005, 10:43:49 pm »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Uh yeah, you.are.making.a.lot.of.sense.


Broke your space-key?

Edit:

Quote from: Umaro
To use the progression of the character's "levels" throughout CT as literal evidence of their strength is impossible. The level of the character's will vary at least a little from player to player, but more importantly numbers cannot be converted into actual measures of fighting prowess and strength.

Here's the best analogy I can come up with to try and explain this: powerlifters train to be able to lift outrageous amounts of weight in the basic movements of the bench press, dead lift, and squat. I know a guy who is 180 pounds(roughly)and can bench press 600 pounds like he's benching 100. 600 is mearly a number, though. You can translate benching 600 pounds into how well the guy fights.

In the same way, you can't say Lucca has "x" HP, "y" strength, and "z" magic and say she could tear Lynx apart. Those numbers are for judging the power of the characters for fighting in the game only and not for equating it to other scenarios outside those restrictions. The only things you count on are that Lucca has some kind of weapon magic spells. In which case, her best spell is Flare. Lynx has Forever Zero. I'd say he has the advantage.


Any analysis of gameplay elements is fundamentally flawed.  However, an analysis of story elements suggests that Lavos is capable of withstanding at least the equivalent of 100 Trillion Tons of TNT and dishing out at least an order of magnitude more.

Quote
In 65 million BC, Lavos impacted the surface of the earth at meteoric speed, creating a fireball that covered most of the continent and caused a global climactic change that lasted for millions of years. This explosion is similar to the K-T Meteor impact, which is estimated to have released energy equivalent to 100 trillion Tons of TNT.
 
The K-T impact vaporized, melted, or ejected over 200 thousand cubic kilometers of the earth's crust, producing a crater 180 kilometers wide and several kilometers deep. The object penetrated 15 kilometers into the earth before being almost completely vaporized.
 
For comparison, the most powerful hydrogen bomb ever produced had a yield of 50 million Tons of TNT, and the total world nuclear arsenal has a combined yield of approximately 5 billion Tons of TNT. The explosion of Krakatoa, the most violent volcanic eruption in recorded history, released energy equivalent to 200 million Tons of TNT.
   
 These are the facts
 
 1.) Lavos withstood an impact equivalent to 100 trillion Tons of TNT without harm, but Crono was able to hurt it with his sword and magic.

 2.) Lavos ruined the surface of the earth in seconds (releasing even more energy than its impact), but Crono could survive its most powerful attacks in a fight to the death.


Unless the time travelers defeated Lavos by deploying an extremely powerful WMD from a bunker halfway around the earth, the fact that Lucca could face Lavos in deadly combat without being blown to atoms puts her on the same level of power as comic-book or anime superheros.  Thermonuclear bombs would be like so many snowflakes to Lucca.

The story of Chrono Trigger requires that Lucca survive attacks with the power of over One Trillion Tons of TNT.  The Question is: does Lynx compare?  Chrono Cross doesn't give quantifiable magnitudes for any character's power.  Most of the high-level characters, like FATE, had more subtle, manipulative abilities.  We don't even know what the destructive capabilities of the Time Devourer are.  Of course, one hit from Lavos would destroy the whole El Nido archipelago.

This is why people feel uneasy about the original time travelers' apparent demise.

Umaro

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« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2005, 02:12:41 am »
Quote from: GrayLensman
Quote
In 65 million BC, Lavos impacted the surface of the earth at meteoric speed, creating a fireball that covered most of the continent and caused a global climactic change that lasted for millions of years. This explosion is similar to the K-T Meteor impact, which is estimated to have released energy equivalent to 100 trillion Tons of TNT.
 
The K-T impact vaporized, melted, or ejected over 200 thousand cubic kilometers of the earth's crust, producing a crater 180 kilometers wide and several kilometers deep. The object penetrated 15 kilometers into the earth before being almost completely vaporized.
 
For comparison, the most powerful hydrogen bomb ever produced had a yield of 50 million Tons of TNT, and the total world nuclear arsenal has a combined yield of approximately 5 billion Tons of TNT. The explosion of Krakatoa, the most violent volcanic eruption in recorded history, released energy equivalent to 200 million Tons of TNT.
   
 These are the facts
 
 1.) Lavos withstood an impact equivalent to 100 trillion Tons of TNT without harm, but Crono was able to hurt it with his sword and magic.

 2.) Lavos ruined the surface of the earth in seconds (releasing even more energy than its impact), but Crono could survive its most powerful attacks in a fight to the death.


Unless the time travelers defeated Lavos by deploying an extremely powerful WMD from a bunker halfway around the earth, the fact that Lucca could face Lavos in deadly combat with being blown to atoms puts her on the same level of power as comic-book or anime superheros.

The story of Chrono Trigger requires that Lucca survive attacks with the power of over One Trillion Tons of TNT.  The Question is: does Lynx compare?  Chrono Cross doesn't give quantifiable magnitudes for any character's power.  Most of the high-level characters, like FATE, had more subtle, manipulative abilities.  We don't even know what the destructive capabilities of the Time Devourer are.  Of course, one hit from Lavos would destroy the whole El Nido archipelago.

This is why people feel uneasy about the original time travelers' apparent demise.


Okay, now I can present a better argument after hearing that.

Does Lynx stack up? I say, "yes." I stated before that Lynx has Forever Zero. I don't know the symatics of this move, but if I were to go by appearances, I'd say it is equivalent to at least a black hole. I'm guessing it's more powerful than that though, since there is also the element "Blackhole" that Lynx, as well as other characters can use.

In my opinion, in order to harness the power of a Black Hole and whatever Forever Zero is, Lynx has to be at least evenly matched with Lucca. I'd also think Lynx's powers would be at least somewhat comparable to Lavos since they are remotely simialar. Lavos exists within a white hole that transcends space and time while he feeds on the planet. Obviously, that's more advanced than what Lynx can do, but it doesn't excuse that Lynx has the power of a black hole at his disposal. Factor into that the orphanage was on fire and Lucca was trying to save the children, and I'd say Lucca didn't know what hit her.

GrayLensman

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« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2005, 04:17:35 pm »
Quote from: Umaro
Okay, now I can present a better argument after hearing that.

Does Lynx stack up? I say, "yes." I stated before that Lynx has Forever Zero. I don't know the symatics of this move, but if I were to go by appearances, I'd say it is equivalent to at least a black hole. I'm guessing it's more powerful than that though, since there is also the element "Blackhole" that Lynx, as well as other characters can use.

In my opinion, in order to harness the power of a Black Hole and whatever Forever Zero is, Lynx has to be at least evenly matched with Lucca. I'd also think Lynx's powers would be at least somewhat comparable to Lavos since they are remotely simialar. Lavos exists within a white hole that transcends space and time while he feeds on the planet. Obviously, that's more advanced than what Lynx can do, but it doesn't excuse that Lynx has the power of a black hole at his disposal. Factor into that the orphanage was on fire and Lucca was trying to save the children, and I'd say Lucca didn't know what hit her.


I'm not disagreeing with you, but battle graphics and other gameplay elements do not give any usefull information.  Many attacks have absurd animations, like Ultranova.  Magus also has a blackhole technique, albeit with more mundane special effects.  Which one is stronger?  All these things are just like Sephiroth's Supernova attack in Final Fantasy 7: all flash and no substance.

We only know that Lynx supposedly abducted and killed Lucca.  If that is the case, then Lynx must have a high level of power.  However, one could also argue that Lynx was lying and the burning orphanage scenario wasn't completely as it appeared.  Given Belthasar's track record, I find the actions of  Lynx, FATE and the Dragon Gods very suspicious suspicious.

P.S. I fixed the formatting of your quote.

Umaro

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« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2005, 09:08:18 pm »
Quote from: GrayLensman

I'm not disagreeing with you, but battle graphics and other gameplay elements do not give any usefull information.  Many attacks have absurd animations, like Ultranova.  Magus also has a blackhole technique, albeit with more mundane special effects.  Which one is stronger?  All these things are just like Sephiroth's Supernova attack in Final Fantasy 7: all flash and no substance.

We only know that Lynx supposedly abducted and killed Lucca.  If that is the case, then Lynx must have a high level of power.  However, one could also argue that Lynx was lying and the burning orphanage scenario wasn't completely as it appeared.  Given Belthasar's track record, I find the actions of  Lynx, FATE and the Dragon Gods very suspicious suspicious.

P.S. I fixed the formatting of your quote.


You're right. We can't determine definitely who is stronger based on graphics. I'm not claiming either is stronger, but I think if both Magus and Lynx are capable of controlling black holes and both exhibit similar powers, they must at least be in the same ball park as far as strength goes. So regardless of how the orphanage burning actually happened, all Lynx really had to do was get the jump on Lucca to make the advantage his.

Dissonance

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« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2006, 03:58:46 pm »
I have a question!

Quote from: Hiroshino
Chronopolis is sent back in time to 7600 B.C. because it was hurled 10,000 years into the past, the Planet sends Dinopolis back from another dimension (Reptite's Dimension, where the Reptites killed off the humans and shit)


What is the planet's motivation for doing this?  And since when could 'the planet' do the time travel thing?  I always thought it was Lavos, the flame, or balthasar and his tech.

Kazuki

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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2006, 10:54:34 pm »
Er...Belthasar and his "tech?" I don't believe he could travel back in time without the NeoEpoch...

Anyways, if you believe that the planet/entity created most of the gates in Chrono Trigger, than it's feasible that, when threatened with time-continuum chaos, it could react with a last-ditch counter measure, such as pulling Dinopolis forward. I'd think that the planet would have just as equal influence as Lavos would.