Author Topic: About demi-humans and Mystics  (Read 4448 times)

Oswego del Fuego

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/moon/dandymasher/schala.html
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2004, 08:52:28 pm »
koolkame, that was such an awesome post!  I totally agree with everything you said about terms such as monster, demi-human, and Mystic.  In addition, I think it makes sense for "monster" to be used in Zenan and "demi-human" to be used in El Nido, since demi-humans are accepted as equals by El Nido's native humans, whereas this really isn't the case on the mainland.

(Also, Joe the piano man was indeed found in 1,000 AD.  There was also the shelter-carrying kilwalla in Guardia Forest in 600 AD and the "Mountains're nice!" fellow in the Denadoro Mountains in 600 AD.  Notice that none of these "monsters" attack the party, nor do the ones in 65,000,000 BC, unless you provoke them.)

I'm interested in your theories regarding Flea.  As I see it, there are two major possibilities.

1.) Flea is a magic-using demi-human, like Ozzie or Sprigg.  We know he can change his shape, as he has already altered his appearance from male to female.  If this is true, perhaps he has also changed from a non-human look to a more human one.  He values beauty, and may simply have thought that human females were more beautiful than demi-human males.  (Personally, the thought of the lovely Flea starting out as a short little fat imp makes me smile.)

2.) Flea is a human wizard.  Spekkio tells us that after the age of magic ended, the only humans who were allowed to use magic were "wizards."  Who these wizards are, we do not know.  (I assume the comment was meant to give us some context for Magus, but we later discover that Magus originated in that lost age of magic, and so, therefore, Spekkio's comment really doesn't apply.)  Flea could be one of these rare individuals.  A human wizard seems like a likely person to be misunderstood, feared, and rejected by society--just like a demi-human.  This might explain Flea's affiliation with the non-human Mystics.  (For the record, I think that people like Guile and Sneff might be other examples of these "wizards.")

OdF

koolkame

  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Thanks
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2004, 01:34:46 pm »
Thanks, Oswego. I put a lot of thought into that that post and I'm glad you liked it. I'm surprised you're interested in the Flea theory but I liked your examples and thought I should share my own.

The particular theory that made me place the emoticon :shock: was the thoought that Flea started out as a male human wizard and altered his appearance to that of a female because of his... feelings about being that way. Ostracized from the cruel masses that couldn't understand him, Flea was either discovered by Ozzie or Magus and taken into the Mystics. Out there I know, but it makes sense in the framework of the game. Magus is human, but powerful, and this makes Ozzie think twice about killing him (after he most likely fried the three imps Ozzie sicced on him.)

It seems likely Magus would have recruited Flea in this scenario, since he too was an outsider and maybe felt a small sympathy to the wizard. Not to mention Flea is tough, his spells included causing chaos amongst your party and using incredible illusions to disorient (turning his room into space.) These skills would have been invaluable in battle, as he could summon fake armies to confuse Guardia's forces and hide troop movements. I remember an NPC on the southern continent that mentions Flea and the others with a sense of dread. Also it is likely his appearance is just that, and he made no physical alterations to himself.

Before I get too off topic, this theory takes into consideration that the Mystics are similar to the Covenant in that they are an organization of non-human peoples with a common goal: the destruction of humanity. And Flea would likely feel great animosity towards mankind (no pun intended.) I'm not sure, but wasn't there another thread on Flea's origin? There's so many...

Alright, back on the thread. Thanks for telling me the locations of the Kilwala; I had forgotten about them. Also, you were right that the Kilwala in 65 Million B.C. would not attack unless provoked, maybe for disturbing their "mass" as it were. This may also indicate their level of intelligence since they don't politely ask party to come back later. If I recall, wouldn't they also attack if you engaged a group of dinos nearby? Just wondering, I need play my copy of CT again.

The woman who called Joe a monster didn't seem too hateful about it; she may have even been a friend (or girlfriend :wink: ) of Joe's who thought that Crono (a guy with a sword) would think Joe was dangerous. Joe might not even mind people calling him that; he probably knows that humans are quick to jump to conclusions and wouldn't take offense to it. I keep thinking of him as a Ray Charles, probably because of the movie. Bridging the gap between humanity and Kilwala... love conquers all... heh.

I've thought a little about demi-humans since then and I think the term is a label applied by the Porre colonists to describe the bipedal race native to El Nido. Most appear similar to human and I do believe the Mystics and demi-humans have little or no connection, except as a foil to the human race in both games. (There may have been covered in the Ultimania guide for CC.) True, the natives of Guldove did respect the demi-humans but I doubt they called them that before Porre arrived. Like with the girl and Joe, they called them demi-humans so that Serge and Crew would know what they were talking about.

I need to research more, but I hope to have some more concrete findings backed by the games and resource materials soon, as my memory is fauly ty at best. Also, Flea's origin and wizards after Zeal would make great topics on their own, if they aren't already. If Sneff and Guile are real wizards, what's the deal? I heard a theory that states that Magic is a recessive trait, so that could be an explanation. Still that's another topic.

This thread is especially interesting to me since I was born and raised in the South and recently did a school project on racism and the news media.

Plus, the axioms on time-travel make head go BOOM.

Oswego del Fuego

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/moon/dandymasher/schala.html
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2004, 11:30:41 pm »
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who would rather focus on topics like these due to the fact that theorizing on the nature of temporal mechanics and such is simply too much for some brains.

I was wondering what you meant by demi-humans and Mystics being unrelated.  It seems to me that "demi-human" is simply a catch-all phrase for any being of human intelligence which isn't, well, human.  In THAT sense, the Mystics and demi-humans would be related, insofar as the Mystics would be a type or faction of demi-humans.

Beyond that, there's an argument to be made that the Marbule demi-humans originated on the Zenan mainland, and therefore might be related to the Mystics (though even if they do come from Zenan, they might be of another sect, ala the Frog King and his ilk, who don't seem to be related to Magus at all).  Even so, this tidbit really isn't fact per se, since the term "mainland" gets used in Chrono Cross in different ways.  Most often, it applies to Zenan, but there are times when it really might be referring to the main island of El Nido instead.  So, it's more a question of interpretation that anything else (IMO).  Which is why I was careful to say that I'm not trying to insist that I'm right by any means!

OdF

GreenGannon

  • Squaretable Knight (+400)
  • *
  • Posts: 460
    • View Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2004, 03:45:14 pm »
When the Demi-humans mention that they got booted off the mainland, I always took that to mean that they got booted off the main island of El Nido. There is a little evidence to support this, try going to Divine Dragon Falls. At some point, there are demi-humans who talk about having ancient customs there. Or something like that.

Oswego del Fuego

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/moon/dandymasher/schala.html
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2004, 08:18:52 pm »
Right.  I only mention it because the word "mainland" is used, and in pretty much every context where that word is employed (actually, in EVERY other case I can find), "mainland" refers to Zenan, or at least appears to.

Personally, I wish they would have been a bit more clear on the definitions of such terms as mainland, central continent, etc.  Ah well.

OdF

JustinS1985

  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2004, 04:00:37 pm »
I'm inclined to believe that the difference between Demi-humans and Mystics is more a form of dialect.  The sentient non-humans on the zenan mainland began referring to themselves as mystics from when Magus and ozzie were in charge and the name stuck.  On El-Nido Magus and Ozzie had no influence and the demi-humans were oppressed.  Most likely demi-human was created as an insult, telling them they were less than humans.


As for the word Mazoku it's been used in quite a few anime's and game's.  The one that it sticks out most in to me is Slayers.  In there the word Mazoku is used to describe the more organized and powerful group of "monsters"  while another word (I forgot what it is) is used to describe the regular monsters that can be found.  Of course when dubbed in English the word monster was used in both places, so it can be somewhat confusing.

koolkame

  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2004, 10:48:27 am »
Oswego del Fuego:
Quote
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who would rather focus on topics like these due to the fact that theorizing on the nature of temporal mechanics and such is simply too much for some brains.
Quote


I hear ya. Though I still believe that Mystics and demi-humans are not biologically related the term demi-human could describe the Mystics as having human-like characteristics. The time between CT and CC is a period of change; Guardia fell, Porre is the world's new power, and El Nido is the "hot spot". The term demi-human may be a new way of describing non-human species, a more PC term than "monster".

What we need to figure out is how long "demi-human" has been in use. Since the Crash? Since the Porre colonists arrived? I can't think of a date off the top of my head. None of the demi-humans give another name for their people to my knowledge.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2006, 05:37:53 pm »
After review, I don't think this gets its own theory page, mainly because the answer is clear: the division is sociological. The Dragonian halfbreeds and other nonhumans in El Nido are called demi-humans, while Mystics is the popular term for other sentient races on Zenan due to the war against the humans in 600 A.D.

GrayLensman

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1031
    • View Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2006, 08:51:14 pm »
What were the Demi-humans called in the original Japanese version of Chrono Cross?

ChronoMagus

  • Chronopolitan (+300)
  • *
  • Posts: 349
    • View Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2006, 11:14:03 am »
It will not matter unless the Japanese version has a really and I mean really out there name...
Demi-humans are strongly related to mystics.

Chrono'99

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3605
    • View Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2006, 11:25:01 am »
I don't think there's really something that suggests that Demi-Humans would be Dragonian halfbreeds. They could just be a race of their own (not Dragonian, not Human), who originated in the Reptite Dimension an came during the Time Crash. The fact that they look slightly humans would have led the Keystone Dimension Humans to call them "Demi-Humans" (they do have other names: dwarves, fairies, etc.).

Or they could be surviving Humans from the Reptite Dimension who evolved without contact with the Frozen Flame (but perhaps contact with Dragonian technologies?). Or they could even be cousin primates from the Reptite Dimension (there were winged apes in 65M B.C. in CT...).

Sentenal

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2006, 07:29:35 pm »
I just don't like to think that DemiHumans=Mystics becasuse we don't see any of the Mystic-type creatures that we see in Medina that we see in El Nido.

AuraTwilight

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1524
    • View Profile
About demi-humans and Mystics
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2006, 08:18:53 pm »
The Mystics and the DemiHumans could've evolved from the same primordial race, and the Demihumans would've originally died out without FATE's influence like the Reptites and the Humans in response to Lavos.