Author Topic: Anonymous, Feb 10th  (Read 1118 times)

Burning Zeppelin

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Anonymous, Feb 10th
« on: February 02, 2008, 10:33:05 pm »
Is anyone planning on joining the protests or "raids" against Scientology on February the 10th? I welcome discussion on whether or not it is right to proceed with this protest, and whether or not Scientology should enjoy the same benefits as other religions. However, some differences between Scientology and other religions are:

1. Scientology exists only to make money

2. Scientology is far more secretive than any other religion, meaning that their purpose is not to provide spiritual enlightenment.

3. The flaws of other religions can be attributed to the era in which they were formed. Scientology is a modern religion, and yet it disproves of modern medicinal techniques.

4. While you could say other religions are also evil, most major religions provided a needed sense of morality and justice at their time of conception. Ethically, religion has come to the end of its usefulness. Scientology is not needed. It provides no just laws, nothing to help humanity, and does not even provide on a spiritual basis. The origin of humanity according to scientology is also bullshit.

Kebrel

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2008, 01:24:03 am »
I do agree that Scientology is a mockery of religion(i.e. Islam, Hindu, FSM) in may ways, although I don't think people need to protest about it it not that big of a deal.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2008, 01:56:56 am »
It suppresses free speech and uses bully tactics on its critics while luring in some of the most famous and wealthy people in the world. It's a pyramid scheme, and the fact that it's a big deal is best illustrated by Germany's classifying it a terrorist organization.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2008, 02:31:06 am »
..While sadly, Australia classifies it as a religion.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2008, 04:29:53 am »
Well, if they are just a money-grab... what makes them different than any other company? Yeah, sure they ensnare people's minds, but there are many companies that seek to do that as well. Under our capitalistic government they should be free to do that. Of course I'm against the scientologists and entirely disagree, but it's part of the freedom of our society that they must be allowed to exist. And if they're raking in money from the unwary, well, we have a thousand companies doing that as well. Call them a company under the guise of a religion. No one is forcing those people to believe it or give their money. Free will, free choice. That is what we must give to the citizens of our civilization. For the most. There can be intervention if it is detrimental to society as a whole, but honestly... I think about the only affect scientologists have on the community as a whole is either general amusement or derision. Let them have their way with things, if they want. There is no reason for our society to really intervene there.

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2008, 04:35:07 am »
I think about the only affect scientologists have on the community as a whole is either general amusement or derision. Let them have their way with things, if they want. There is no reason for our society to really intervene there.

I disagree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 04:45:21 am »
I think about the only affect scientologists have on the community as a whole is either general amusement or derision. Let them have their way with things, if they want. There is no reason for our society to really intervene there.

I disagree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)

Hmm... didn't know that. Maybe that's why Germany doesn't like them. Though Germans are, heh, notoriously grumpy anyway.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 05:30:01 am »
Daniel, sorry to tell you, but you're wrong. Fair Game isn't their only evil policy. You say there is freedom to choose? What about their kids? They automatically become ensnared in scientology. No different from every other religion, but if you leave, those "free" Scientology courses you too suddenly become not so free, and you have to pay them all off. There are heaps of other money making policies in Scientology.

If Scientology was just another company, they'd be no different from any other self help program, except that they are tax exempt.

And this is the worst thing they have ever done (that we know of): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa%20McPherson

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2008, 05:56:12 am »
Hmmm... alright, okay, I see.

Though about people being brainwashed, it's always a touchy subject. After all, the very concept of civilization is a form of brainwashing: it's training ourselves to live in a certain social construct and order. We must act within certain social norms that we are trained in, else we are seen as outsiders. Of course, there are differences (obviously, heh), but I don't think it's often considered that much of who and what we are as modern humans is due to successive generations of systematically training our minds to think in a certain way.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2008, 07:21:58 am »
Scientology is like any other religion except for being younger by a fair bit, thus rawer, less steeped in tradition, and more transparent in its aims. Mormonism, Presbyterianism, Hinduism…the further back in time you go, the more trappings of legitimacy a religion seems to accumulate. In the end, it’s all the same game.

Only in the apparent sense is there any difference. The particulars of Scientology are more aggressive and conspiratorial than other relatively young religions, like Wicca, which leads to more, and harsher, confrontations between the conventions of Scientology and those of society at large. Thus, Scientology is more of an apparent problem than something like Wicca, even though the problems produced by both religions are fairly similar.

Anyhow, you might be surprised to hear this from me, but I don’t like the motives of the people doing these “raids,” and I certainly don’t like their methods. Law and order isn’t just a television show. It is one of the stabilizing pillars of society. Vigilante “justice” might be appropriate in times of extreme crisis, but never in a stable, developed society. Scientologists have plenty to be held accountable for, just like all religious people, but for a bunch of fools to be going after them with the coward’s equivalent of torches and pitchforks is, in my assessment, an even worse transgression.

The only wise thing I have heard from a Republican’s mouth in the past several years came from Senator John McCain, likely to be the Republican presidential nominee this year, who, when it came out that America was torturing its prisoners, said to the nation that torturing is wrong, that America should not torture, and that this has to do not with the fiber of the prisoners, but with the fiber of Americans. I believe his exact words were: “It’s not about them; it’s about us.” The very same principle holds true when considering these Scientology raids: Even if Scientology is a scourge—which I freely grant—there are ethical ways to confront the problem, and then there are the (far more numerous) unethical ways.

It doesn’t take much to judge these raids as belonging to the latter. If Scientology is guilty of wrongs that require immediate action, then the correct course of action is through peaceable resistance combined with legislative and judicial recourse.

teaflower

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2008, 09:36:59 am »
I agree wholeheartedly with what Lord J esq says. The whole concept of scientology doesn't make sense to me (maybe that's because I was born Catholic and now go to a congregassional church) but I'm not gonna deny people what they believe. ... even if it doesn't sound right to me.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 06:31:31 pm by teaflower »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2008, 05:56:47 pm »
Well, that's going into the whole, "it's not a matter of leaving people to their superstitions; they are harming society" argument...

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2008, 04:29:55 am »
How can there be other ethical ways? It is a religion here, because the Australia government is afraid of being sued. Same in the USA. Though I don't agree with attacking them, I have no qualms on protesting.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2008, 04:32:35 am by Burning Zeppelin »


teaflower

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Re: Anonymous, Feb 10th
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2008, 09:28:31 am »
... Anonymous is an ass. I say don't agree with them, but don't go attacking them, either. If they, like, blow up Rome or something (another really important place for other religions, can't think of one off the top of my head, I just woke up), get the government involved.

In many cases of history, civilians taking something like this on without the help of the government... hasn't really helped. Although the French Revolution took out Louis XVI (?) and Marie Antoinnette, there was mass chaos afterwards.

So, until they do something HORRIBLE... er... let them be. Now, if you excuse me, before we leave to get more stuff from our old apartment, I must do research on this. AWAY I GO!

EDIT: ... okay, I don't like it. Psychiatry = evil? Um, no! I haven't seen my psychiatrist in a week and I'm already feeling kinda wacky! But, still, as long as they don't come up to me in the middle of seeing my psychiatrist and say, 'You are a horrible person for seeking mental help! Convert! Be free!', I don't CARE what they do. As long as it doesn't bother me.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2008, 09:35:21 am by teaflower »