Atheism

[grey_the_angel]

and a theist myself, I find it kinda sad to be an athiest, but I can see where they come from.
I don't believe in church sayings or anything like that (I'd rather make my OWN moral judgements then listen to some really old book.) but to say "welp, I'm gonna die and go back to nothing?" doesn't really give much to live for.

[Daniel Krispin]

and a theist myself, I find it kinda sad to be an athiest, but I can see where they come from.
I don't believe in church sayings or anything like that (I'd rather make my OWN moral judgements then listen to some really old book.) but to say "welp, I'm gonna die and go back to nothing?" doesn't really give much to live for.

Of course, their argument is interestingly the exact reverse. Because you have somewhere to go, you'll not make as much of this life. Knowing that there isn't anything to go to, insteading of making there nothing to live for, makes this world all the more important. Sort of an Achilles complex, like when in the movie he says (more or less) 'everything is more beautiful when you're doomed.' (Nb. His actual words to that effect are, after the fashion of Homer, far more lengthy. Sufficed to say I'm not just ignorantly quoting a movie, but understand the actual Iliad as well... to some extent. Just so you know I'm not just throwing out a Classical allusion in ignorance.)

Now, there is some logic to that. It doesn't always pan out so easily, but a strong case could be made for it.

[grey_the_angel]

and a theist myself, I find it kinda sad to be an athiest, but I can see where they come from.
I don't believe in church sayings or anything like that (I'd rather make my OWN moral judgements then listen to some really old book.) but to say "welp, I'm gonna die and go back to nothing?" doesn't really give much to live for.

Of course, their argument is interestingly the exact reverse. Because you have somewhere to go, you'll not make as much of this life. Knowing that there isn't anything to go to, insteading of making there nothing to live for, makes this world all the more important. Sort of an Achilles complex, like when in the movie he says (more or less) 'everything is more beautiful when you're doomed.' (Nb. His actual words to that effect are, after the fashion of Homer, far more lengthy. Sufficed to say I'm not just ignorantly quoting a movie, but understand the actual Iliad as well... to some extent. Just so you know I'm not just throwing out a Classical allusion in ignorance.)

Now, there is some logic to that. It doesn't always pan out so easily, but a strong case could be made for it.

true, but that's mostly if you believe in a religion from what I figure. I don't think God as sort of this watchful person, but rather, just someone who was bored out his friggen mind in nothing.

[Radical_Dreamer]

and a theist myself, I find it kinda sad to be an atheist, but I can see where they come from.
I don't believe in church sayings or anything like that (I'd rather make my OWN moral judgements then listen to some really old book.) but to say "welp, I'm gonna die and go back to nothing?" doesn't really give much to live for.

Of course, their argument is interestingly the exact reverse. Because you have somewhere to go, you'll not make as much of this life. Knowing that there isn't anything to go to, insteading of making there nothing to live for, makes this world all the more important. Sort of an Achilles complex, like when in the movie he says (more or less) 'everything is more beautiful when you're doomed.' (Nb. His actual words to that effect are, after the fashion of Homer, far more lengthy. Sufficed to say I'm not just ignorantly quoting a movie, but understand the actual Iliad as well... to some extent. Just so you know I'm not just throwing out a Classical allusion in ignorance.)

Now, there is some logic to that. It doesn't always pan out so easily, but a strong case could be made for it.

true, but that's mostly if you believe in a religion from what I figure. I don't think God as sort of this watchful person, but rather, just someone who was bored out his friggen mind in nothing.

Have you spoken to any atheists about it? That's a good characterization from Daniel. We have this one life to lead so we strive to make the best of it, and we do that without religion. Indeed, religions that preach of an afterlife are demotivators for this sort of life. "You'll have eternity afterward, you need to spend this life preparing for the next." What a crock of bull. That we are alive is the only thing we can know for sure, so why throw that away on an improbable wager with no evidence to suggest it's true?

That you find death tragic, and something you'd rather not have happen to you does not separate you from a large portion of the atheist community. That you think life can only be worthwhile if it's eternal is what keeps you from a fulfilling, godless life.

[Burning Zeppelin]

@Krispin: Seeing as how you're an expert in Greek mythology and stories and what not, wasn't there a tale about how a group was turned into swine, and the only man who was not turned into a pig managed to change them back, and when he saw the reverted crying, he asked why they were doing so, and they said that whilst they were pigs they had no fear of dying? Or something? Dunno, sounded relevant to the current conversation.

And this has nothing to do with the current conversation really, but a death with nothing afterwards scares the hell out of me. Like, just not existing...argh, can't even comprehend it!

[MsBlack]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circe

[Burning Zeppelin]

Not everything real is logical. Not everything logical is real.

Imaginary numbers.
Dreams.
War.

Infinity is not logical. Infinity is real.

If there is no physical manifestation of infinity in this world, why must there be one of God?

[MsBlack]

For the sake of convenience, I may use "He" as a pronoun representing "God" and "God" in place of "God(s)".
Line-for-line reply:

Depends what you mean by 'real'; tangible, physical?


As a part of mathematics, a science, imaginary numbers, I'm pretty sure, are logical.
Dreams are affected by our experiences and brains.
It's not inherently illogical. Even if it were, what's your point?

Infinity is not logical? How so? Again, is it not also a part of mathematics?

There's no proof there's no physical manifestation of infinity, but even assuming there were proof, I don't think anybody has said there must be one of God. For God to have magically created and to be able to directly, unavoidably change reality, he must have physical influence. Surely, it must exist in some way to do so.  Similarly, to be consistent, you should believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny et alii. Even if there is no physical manifestation of infinity, it would just be a concept, and would therefore exist in the mind, as an abstract concept incapable of direct, unavoidable physical influence.
~
This seems to be going in circles. Just because Allah could exist, doesn't mean it does. By your logic, you should believe in all possible gods, including my Teapot God, my Tooth Fairy God and my Santa Claus God.

[dan_death]

I have one thing to add to this topic.

All I can say is, everybody should have an open mind. Who's to say what's what, what's right and what's wrong, and so on. But believe what you want to believe in.

Personally I don't believe in a god or gods, but opened to the possibility that there is.

[grey_the_angel]

still think you should have a belief in something beyond just this. think about when you get to the end. do you really wanna go out thinking that it's all gonna be black, and all your thoughts are now null and void?

[JEEZUZKRYSTE]

A belief is a belief. One shouldn't try to force it upon others, nor should they try and manipulate others into believing what you want them to. It's all a matter of faith. Either you have it or you don't. My personal beliefs do not conflict with my every day life nor do they reflect on my being. There is no absolute right or wrong in religion. Religion exists to try and bring peace. Such as Christianity. Do unto others.... blah blah. Religion is basically a set of rules that one believes they must follow in order to live in eternal bliss. I know that religion brings much chaos, but as I've said earlier.... one shouldn't try to force it upon others.

[dan_death]

still think you should have a belief in something beyond just this. think about when you get to the end. do you really wanna go out thinking that it's all gonna be black, and all your thoughts are now null and void?

Well, I do believe in something beyond this life, I believe in the soul, and spirituality. Just not a god. You don't need a god to have a soul.

[Burning Zeppelin]

What's the point? What will belief in a teapot god give me? What will belief in a tooth fairy god give me? What will belief in a Santa claus god give me? There is no scripture of any of these Gods. There is evidence of the God I believe in, though maybe not necessarily physical evidence we can see right now, but there is spiritual evidence and other things that make me believe. Why would I believe in Santa Claus when it is known where the myth came from, and the tooth fairy when it is know where the myth came from? Why should I believe in the teapot? If the teapot was made by humans, it could not of been made when Russel thought it up, as there was no way of sending things into space. Also, the teapot would still be a physical thing existing in physical space, and therefore it would be possible to disprove or prove it. Only Gods existing in our current universe, such as the Greek Gods, could be disproved with our current methods.

Also, for anyone that believes in an infinite universe, anything in possible. If the size of the universe is infinite, anything you can dream of will happen somewhere. If the time length of a universe is infinite, everything will definetely happen. Even god? Maybe. Who cares. I say, get high and live happy.

[dan_death]

Anything is possible, hell this universe could be some program, or game designed by some 40 year old guy living in his parent's basement. Who knows, and right now I don't really care.

I shall put that last sentence you said, Zeppelin, in to effect soon.

as soon as i get some lsd
 

But I'll probably only do that once, I don't really get addicted to anything that's not computers, anime, music and such.

[JEEZUZKRYSTE]

LSD? Let's hope you're kidding.