Author Topic: Some help with English, yes?  (Read 1199 times)

cupn00dles

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Some help with English, yes?
« on: December 01, 2007, 09:52:05 am »
Hey. I have made an English version of a short text I wrote for college, which the objective is to be as much of a breeze to read as possible.

As my English is far from what I'd call "Hey, that's a nice English you got there", I was thinking if some of the crazy-ly literate native English-speaking Compendium users could give me a hand on what I should modify.

Well, here's the thing:


Vicious Circle

      I go to school by subway. Every day, I get on the 6 a.m. train and everyday she did so as well. Going back home, by noon, she was always there, too.
      I used to ask myself who that pretty girl who always sat alone in the back seat was and why she always had that same sad expression in her face. She was very pretty, with long black hair and green eyes, and had this smart air about her, always carrying a variety books. I saw her every day and I kept thinking to myself that maybe she had problems at home or perhaps some kind of difficulty in making friends or even that she might be sick.
      I had this impression that, from time to time, she would stare back at me, when I'd instinctively give her a warm yet directionless smile. And there she stayed, by herself, with her melancholy expression intriguing me more and more each day.
      I had thought about talking to her but I couldn’t, either because I didn’t want to bother her or because I was afraid of not knowing how to act in case she started crying, for crying was one of the only things I could imagine her doing. Her expression wasn’t just melancholic, it was the exact same expression people make seconds before they start crying.
      After a while, that situation started to bother me. I knew it was mainly curiosity that I felt - after all it’s hard for people to sincerely worry about someone who they don’t know, even if this someone seems to keep all the sadness of the world behind her eyes, including your own. Still, I remained silent. That bothersome sensation made me stop smiling to her.
      One day I got on the subway, and it was more crowded than usual. I looked at the back of the train and didn’t see the girl. It then occurred that the train stopped abruptly due to some mechanical defect, staying still for a while. I had my eyes fixed in the clouded sky at the other side of the window, when I felt someone hit my back. I turned around and recognized her face right away. It was the girl of the back seat.
      She looked at me, gave me a brief smile, and apologized. It was the first time I saw her smiling and, somehow, that smile ended the bad sensation I had been having when I looked at her. I told her it was no problem and, without me noticing, we started talking. “Couldn’t find an empty seat, huh?” She looked at me, and replied “Yeah. There’s more people than usual, in the train.”
      After those quick words, we kept silent. A few seconds later, a message came from the train speakers: “We apologize for the inconvenience. There’s a small problem in the train’s engine. We will be solving it and continuing our ride in a few moments”.
      After the message, the silence between the girl and I remained for a while, then she continued, “You always catch this train, don’t you?”. The fact that the girl, who seemed so shy and introspective, was talking to me like that was kind of unexpected.
      I answered, “Yeah. You do too, don’t you?” She nodded and kept going, “Yeah, I always see you here.” We kept talking and I saw we had a lot in common. After a half hour or so, the train started running again and by then the moments of silence between us were more pleasant. It was then that I noticed that the girl was looking at me with an expression of someone who wants to ask something. More curious than ever, I promptly replied with an expression of someone who wants to answer something.
      She asked me, “I don’t know you very well, and I know I’m being nosy, but... It’s just that I’m very curious about it. You always seemed to be happy and smiling but for a while now you always have this serious face” – And she kept going with a friendly smile, which passed me an air of genuine worry – “I’m sorry, again, for being nosy, but, you know, did something happen to you?”.
      That caught me completely by surprise. Apparently she was less shy than myself. I tried to think of a satisfactory answer, maybe witty and unexpected, but such an answer didn’t come to mind. I wanted to tell her how curious I was, too, about her sad expression - but I couldn’t. All I could say was, “Oh, nothing special. Just stuff that happens, you know.” She gave me a look of one who notices the evasion, yet prefers not to continue on the subject, out of respect.
      We remained in silence for a few more minutes during which I worked on the idea of opening myself to her. When I finally felt I could ask her what I wanted to ask for so long, she started talking again “Well, I stay in the next station, as you should remember” – I got a red face and she continued – “I’m happy to have met you. I hope someday we get to talk again. Goodbye”.
      My jaw dropped and I couldn’t say “bye.” I didn’t understand what she meant by “I hope someday we get to talk again”. “We’ll talk again tomorrow”, I thought.
      The other day, when the train arrived at the station where she should have caught it, I waited for her but she didn’t show up. That intrigued me and her words of obvious meaning struck me head on. She had moved, gone away, whatever it was that wouldn’t allow us to see each other anymore. I sat in the back seat with a sad expression of one who was defeated by shyness, uneasiness, or whatever it was that didn’t allow me to say what I should have said. Never again did I see her and from that day onwards I started sitting in the same back seat she used to sit in.
      For a few days now, I always see a girl standing next to the train doors, who, from time to time, exchanges looks with me, and gives me a shy smile.



Thanks in advance.

Edit: Damn, I just noticed the four first paragraphs start with a freakin "I". No idea how to change that, though.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 07:52:05 pm by cupn00dles »

Sora

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2007, 12:38:07 pm »
you dont speak english as your first?

BlueThunder

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2007, 12:44:10 pm »
Remember, don't get advice from me.  :lol:

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 02:39:52 pm »
Some quick notes:
-You don't need the comma in "she did so, as well"
-"I used to ask myself who the pretty girl who always sat alone in the back seat was"
-Melancholy expression
-"...was it because...", this sentance needs to end with a question mark.
-Instead of "On a certain day" "One day" is fine.
-You don't need to specify that the old lady and child were in the back seat.
-Don't need the comma in "train stop, abruptly" but you do want the one after it
-You don't need the dashes before dialog
-"I'm sorry, again, for being nosy"

cupn00dles

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2007, 03:40:29 pm »
you dont speak english as your first?

Nope. I speak Portuguese.


Some quick notes:
-You don't need the comma in "she did so, as well"
-"I used to ask myself who the pretty girl who always sat alone in the back seat was"
-Melancholy expression
-"...was it because...", this sentance needs to end with a question mark.
-Instead of "On a certain day" "One day" is fine.
-You don't need to specify that the old lady and child were in the back seat.
-Don't need the comma in "train stop, abruptly" but you do want the one after it
-You don't need the dashes before dialog
-"I'm sorry, again, for being nosy"

Many thanks!

Just one thing, instead of using a question mark in that "...was it because..." sentence, I thought things would flow better with a "either it was (...) or". I guess it worked better, didn't it?

Also, it's good to know about the dashes before dialog. In Portuguese, they're generally used (and I sincerely ain't sure why).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 03:51:47 pm by cupn00dles »

Tiammat

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2007, 04:47:36 pm »
Haha... when i readed "On a certain day..." (Certo dia...), i was sure that you speaked Spanish or Portuguese...

Thought

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 03:03:41 pm »
As someone who has learned English, you probably have a better idea of grammar/spelling than most native speakers. Anywho, I'll make a few comments directly into the text (marked off with parenthesis). Bold is for suggestions/comments but bold and underline is for actual errors. Keep in mind, however, that if you are turning this in for a grade, then the teacher's perceptions of the English language trumps real grammatical rules (so if you know your teacher likes things in a manner contrary to how I recommend, follow her but know that it is wrong).

Vicious Circle
      I go to school by subway. Every day, I get on the 6 a.m. train and everyday she did so as well. Going back home, by noon, she was always there, too. (Subtle foreshadowing; at first I thought this was a grammatical error until I read the entire thing. Very good.)
      I used to ask myself who that pretty girl who always sat alone in the back seat was, and (this is awkward phrasing. I would recommend "ask myself who that pretty girl, alone in the back seat, was" Also, note that you do not need a comma before the word "and." It is acceptable in lists and subordinate clauses but should be generally be avoided essentially every other time)  and why she always had that (same) sad expression in her face. She was very pretty, with long black hair and green eyes, and had this smart air about her, always carrying books of many sizes and widths (this is also a bit awkward; is it really necessary for us to know that the books were of many sizes and widths? Might "carrying a variety of books" work?). I saw her every day, (again, you don't need this comma) and I kept thinking to myself (dialogue should be separated by a comma) “Maybe she has problems at home”, (commas go inside the quotation marks, usually) “Maybe she has trouble making friends(here is actually a good place for a comma, as it is in a list)" or “Perhaps she’s sick”. (periods should also go inside quotation marks)
      I had this impression that, from time to time, she would look at me too, and I’d give her a warm yet directionless smile(I think your point might be better made if you separated this into two sentences, cutting it at the "and"). And there she stayed, by herself, with her melancholy expression intriguing me more and more by (maybe "each" instead of "by") the day.
      I had thought about talking to her, (like "and," "but" doesn't usually need a comma since the word essentially serves the same purpose) but I couldn’t, either because I didn’t want to bother her or because I was afraid of not knowing how to act in case (possibly "when" instead of "in case" as that is the only thing you could imagine her doing) she started crying. (might want to connect these two sentences with a semicolon; they are closely related but not enough for a comma and a period seems too much) Crying was one of the only things I could imagine her doing. Her expression wasn’t just melancholic, it was the exact expression people make seconds before they start crying.
      After a while, that situation started to bother me. I knew it was mainly curiosity that I felt, (these two thoughts should be separated, either into two sentences or connect with a semicolon) after all it’s hard for people to sincerely worry about someone who they don’t know, even if this someone seems to keep all the sadness in the world behind her eyes, including your own. Still, I kept silent, (don't need the comma here) but separating the thoughts might add potency)[/b] and that bothersome sensation made me stop smiling to her.
      One day, I got on the subway, (don't need the comma) and it was fuller that usual. I looked at the back of the train and I didn’t see the girl in the back seat ("in the back seat" might not be necessary). It occurred that some mechanical defect made the train stop abruptly (awkwardly phrased, I highly recommend reworking it so that the sentence is more along the lines of "the train stopped abruptly due to some mechanical defect" -- essentially, as-is your sentence goes helping-verb/indirect object/verb/subject but subject/verb/object is standard English), (again, you don't need this comma) and it stayed that way for a while. I had my eyes fixed in the clouded sky at (maybe "on" instead of "at") the other side of the windows, when I felt someone hit my back. I turned around and recognized that face, (don't need this comma) right away. It was the girl of the back seat. (I like this last sentence; it almost sounds like you named her/gave her a title.)
      She looked to ("looking to" and "looking at" have different meanings; I think you want "at" in this instance) me, gave me a brief smile (a comma here would be appropriate, but English grammar is a bit flexible in this particular matter) and apologized. It was the first time I saw her smiling and, somehow, that smile broke the bothersome sensation I had been having (a little awkward but I am not sure how you'd improve it). I told her it was no problem and, without me noticing, we started talking. “Couldn’t find an empty seat, huh?”. (why this period? A question mark is just as good. However, dialogue usually gets its own paragraph.) She looked at me, and replied “Yeah. There’s ("There's" is a contraction for "there is," but "people" is plural; you want "There are," but as this is dialogue it is acceptable to have "there's") more people than usual, (if she is actually pausing and adding "in the train" as a bit of an afterthought, the comma works. If not, get rid of it) in the train”.
      We kept in (don't need the "in") silence (if you get rid of the "in" as you should, then "silence" will need to be "silent") for a few seconds,  when (you are mixing your voices here; the first half is active but this is passive. The easiest fix would be to end the first part after silent and put "after a few second" as the beginning of a new sentence) a message came from the train speakers: “We apologize for the inconvenience. There’s a small problem in the train’s engine. We will be solving it and continuing our ride in a few moments”.
      After the message, the silence between me and the girl (possibly use the word "us" instead of "me and the girl." If you leave it as is, then it should be "between the girl and I;" first person pronouns always go last and as you are the subject of the sentence you should use the nominative case) remained for a while, when (I'd recommend "then" instead of "when") she continued (need a comma here) “You always catch this train, don’t you?”. The fact that the girl, who seemed so shy and introspective, was talking to me like that was kind of unexpected. I answered (comma, and if it is a different speaker it usually needs its own paragraph) “Yeah. You do too, don’t you?”. (don't need the period) She nodded and kept going (either a period or a comma is needed here) “Yeah, I always see you here”. (period goes inside the quotation marks) We kept talking and I saw we had a lot in common. After some ("a" instead of "some") half hour of small talk, the train started running again and now (remove "now," it is messing up the time of the sentence; now is present, but you are relating a past event) the silence between us was more pleasant. It was then (that) I noticed that the girl was looking at me with an expression of someone who wants to ask something. More curious than ever, I promptly replied with an expression of someone who wants to answer something. And (don't need this "and" here but you do want to think about a new paragraph) she asked me (comma) “I don’t know you very well, and I know I’m being nosy, but... It’s just that I’m very curious about it. You always seemed to be happy and smiling, (don't need this comma) but for a while now you always have this serious face” – And she kept going with a friendly smile, which passed me an air of genuine worry – “I’m sorry, again, for being nosy, but, you know, did something happen to you?”.
      That caught me, completely, (why is "completely" separated by commas? It doesn't seem like it should be an aside) by surprise. Apparently she was less shy (might "braver" work instead of "less shy"?) than myself. I kept thinking (maybe "tried to think" instead of "kept thinking") of a satisfactory answer, maybe witty and unexpected, but such (an) answer didn’t come to mind. I wanted to tell her how curious I was, too, about her sad expression, (an ellipses might add more force here than the comma) but I couldn’t. All I could say was (comma) “Oh, nothing special. Just stuff that happen, you know” (here you actually do need a comma if you are going to continue the sentence, but a period seems more appropriate) and she gave me a look of one who notices the evasion, yet prefers not to continue on the subject, for respect ("out of respect" is how that might be phrased by a native English speaker, but "for respect" works too).
      We remained in silence for a few more minutes, (don't need the comma) during which I kept working (need this to be past tense, "I worked") on the idea of opening myself to her. When I finally felt I could ask her what I wanted to ask for so long, she started talking again “Well, I go down in the next station (she's going down?! They aren't even on a first date! "Going down" can mean having sex, in English slang. You might want "the next station is my stop" or something as such, but again the content of a dialogue doesn't need to follow strict grammatical rules), as you should remember” – I got a red face, (don't need the comma) and she continued – (nice use of em-dashes) “I’m happy to have met you. I hope someday we (will) get to talk again. Goodbye”.
      My jaw dropped, (don't need the comma, but a period might add more of a punch) and I couldn’t say “Bye”. (period goes inside of the quotation marks and the B in "bye" doesn't need to be a capital) I didn’t understand what she meant by “I hope someday we get to talk again”. “We’ll talk again tomorrow”, I thought.
      When the train arrived at the station where she caught it, every day, (you don't need to separate "every day" from the rest of the sentence, and everyday can be one word) I waited for her, (don't need the comma) but she didn’t show up. (you might want to make it clear that this was another day; as-is it looks like this is taking place right after she said goodbye) That intrigued me, (no comma) and her words of obvious meaning struck me head on (awkwardly phrased. Perhaps "her words, so obvious now, struck me head on"). She had moved, gone away, whatever it was that wouldn’t allow us to see each other anymore. I sat in the back seat, (no comma) with a sad expression of one who was defeated by shyness, uneasiness (comma) or whatever it was that didn’t allow me to say what I should have said. Never again did I see her, (no comma) and from that day onwards I started sitting in the same back seat she used to sit (in).
      For a few days now, I always see a girl standing next to the train doors, who, from time to time, exchanges looks with me, and gives me a shy smile.



Thanks in advance.

Edit: Damn, I just noticed the four first paragraphs start with a freakin "I". No idea how to change that, though. (why should you? It isn't wonderful  to start a lot of paragraphs with the same word, but it seldom actually matters. Don't be overly conscious of how you are saying something; like breathing, when you become aware of your writing style you actually have to work at is when it is easier and more efficient just to ignore it. Paying too close attention to how often you start a paragraph with a certain letter is borderline "Said" Bookism.)

cupn00dles

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 06:46:04 pm »
As someone who has learned English, you probably have a better idea of grammar/spelling than most native speakers.

Considering I learned English by myself, and tuned it mostly via Ultima Online forums, I'm not too sure about that,  :lee:.

Keep in mind, however, that if you are turning this in for a grade, then the teacher's perceptions of the English language trumps real grammatical rules (so if you know your teacher likes things in a manner contrary to how I recommend, follow her but know that it is wrong).

Actually, the objective of the text is to be as much of a breeze for a "general audience" of sorts to read. I know such thing is only possible when in theory, but my objective is to get as close to it as possible.

I read your remarks and some of them show me you got the exact idea of the feel I meant to pass through some of the sentences, that's cool.

I'll fix all the obsolete commas soon, and my thing with the "I"s is mainly a translation... "impression" I have, it seems. In Portuguese, verbs are conjugated diferently for every pronoun, so there's no need for "I"s in the start of each sentence, the "I" becomes a hidden subject (does this expression exist in English? Well, I think you get the idea), and the sentence starts with the conjugated verb itself. Not only is the "I" obsolete, it looks ugly as hell and unnecessarily repetitive. I guess there's no way around it when writing in English, though. But even if it's not wrong, nor especially ugly, I still keep this impression from the Portuguese counterparts.


Edit: Adjustments made, thanks a lot! There's just one thing I've got a doubt about: In that sentence where I used the expression "some half hour", I wanted to pass the idea of "a half hour or so", so just "a half hour" wouldn't do. Is it really wrong to say "some half hour", or "some half an hour", because I'm quite sure I've heard or read it somewhere before. Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 05:35:03 pm by cupn00dles »

MsBlack

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2007, 03:15:04 am »
"After about half an hour of small talk", "After about a half-hour of small talk". The latter doesn't sound as good to me, but that's probably because we just don't say it in England.

EDIT: "Some [insert amount of time] later" is usually in fact a more precise indication of the passage of time and is from my understanding often a bit critical of the length of time taken for something to happen:

"I asked for the paper back but he only did so some half an hour later."
"I wanted him to give me a ticket the next day. However, it was only some eight days later that I received it."
"The President was expected to comment immediately after. Some month later, he commented on the matter."
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 03:22:51 am by MsBlack »

Thought

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Re: Some help with English, yes?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2007, 11:53:15 am »
"about a half hour later" would seem to serve your intent. However, as mentioned MsBlack, that still indicates a somewhat set amount of time. Generally speaking, "about a half hour" should used for any time between 23 minutes and 37 minutes (otherwise it would be "about 15 minutes" or "about 45 minutes," respectively). "after what seemed like a half hour" would also work, gives you much more leeway on the exact time, but still implies a good portion of waiting occurred.

Technically, in English (like most languages), every verb does conjugate for the various persons... it is just that over the years the conjugations have become very similar, now being differentiated primarily by number rather than person. But as far as how it looks, the only criterion that English cares about is if it is readable (thus why long paragraphs, even if they are legitimately that long, are usually a no-no). As long as it is easily readable, it looks good. Well, poetry often cares about that but prose doesn't.

I can understand thinking something looks… odd, at least, in a foreign language. There are a few German words that look more like sentences to me.