Author Topic: A theory about "Time Counciousness"  (Read 1211 times)


  • Guest
A theory about "Time Counciousness"
« on: November 30, 2007, 08:44:45 pm »
EDIT: I have concluded that the theory in this post is unnecessary... see my third post in this topic if you want to know my final resolution, a simpler and more elegant theory with nothing about "Time Conciousness"... I will leave the original post if someone wants to read it...

Lately i've been thinking too much... Amidts these thoughts, some questions about the Chrono series popped up in my mind...

1 - An hipotetical situation.

In CT Original Timeline, the future is destroyed... Then let's think this: I am a man who lives in 600 A.D and i have a piece of cake in front of me... a have two options, give the cake to my wife or eat the cake... Which of them am i going to chose?... Don't matter, because TIME already knows which i'm going to chose. The timeline is already written to at least Lavos' Time... and to the future to be already defined, TIME MUST know my next action, independent if it looks like i have a "choice" or that i have "free will"...

2 - The problem: (In the beggining it will look silly, but keep reading, please)

In Chrono Trigger Original Timeline, Lavos destroys the world... this means that Crono & Co did not travel in time to stop Lavos. But, as we all know it, Crono DID travel in time and defeated Lavos, creating a brighter future... Comparing to the analogy of the cake i made above, TIME would have known that Crono would travel in time... so the future couldn't be bad... Hum...

Other case... When Serge survives in 1010A.D., Home was created and the Dead Sea reflected a catastrophic future, due to Serge's survival. But, Serge travelled through dimensions, what caused the bad future to disappear once again...

The grand point of doubt is: If Serge has FREE WILL that can shape the future, how can the future of Home predict Serge's actions and say "The future is bad", reflecting that conclusion on the Dead Sea? (remember, Home World timeline was created all at once, when Serge survived). One would say, "TIME knows that Serge will choose to not travel dimensions", hence the bad conclusion. But if this is true, then Serge has no free will, since time already know what he will do. Besides, Serge choses to travel through dimensions and find out his destiny, leading to a brighter future, and not a bad... Other would say "The very presence of Serge caused Crono's deeds to be forgotten in Home timeline, his actions don't influence the future". But then again, Serge's presence caused Crono's deeds to be erased in Home Timeline, but his very presence could conduct too to a bright future.

What i want to ask is... If the Original Timeline of Chrono Trigger was already written, what caused Crono to change history? Remembering that Crono didn't save the world originally.

In Home World, the future is bad... but Serge is part of that world and to the future to be established, it needs Serge's actions, which are not predictable. Serge's actions clearly leads to a happy future in the game. Then, how can the Dead Sea be the Dead Sea?

3 - Theory

For the first question i found the answer quite quickly and smootlhy...

In "Original Timeline" didn't exist "Time Gates", this leaded the world to destruction... the Entity created the Gates later on, when the timeline was already established, causing the same Crono from before to behave differently and try to fix history.

But this doesn't explain the second question...

To explain the second question, i will create the the term TIME COUNCIOUNESS... It consists in treating TIME as an entity (Not the other Entity we know)... When a new timeline must be created, TIME ignores any events of Time Travelling and calculate all things based as if "Gates" and "Angelus Errare" never existed... TIME can predict ALL and doing so creates a new Timeline... After the creation, TIME goes to WAIT mode and stop monitoring people's actions...

When some "Gate" come across the path of any individual in the timeline, it can cause this individual to change history... because he is seeing something that TIME ignored... Then he can travels through time and work under Time Bastard and Time Travalers Immunity... when this individual changes the past, TIME goes back to ACTIVE mode and rewrite history according to the changes, then goes to WAIT mode again...

Example 1:

-TIME calculates the actions of all people of all times and create "Original Timeline" as if gates never existed. Without gates, Crono never save the world...
-After the completion of the Timeline, Entity creates gates... Crono & Co becomes involved with time travel, changing history.

Example 2:

-Serge survives.
-A new timeline must be created.
-TIME calculates the actions of all people and creates Home as if the Angelus Errare never existed... without Angelus Errare, TIME concludes (through calculations) that Serge would be no more than a simple El Nidian... And the future is bad...

Note that after the creation, all people has Free Will, their decisions is not necessarily equal to TIME's calculations.

TIME only calculates to establish a new timeline successuflly... And he ignores the existence of Time and Dimensoinal Gates.

It's a crazy theory, i know... but i didn't find here any answer for the Serge/Dead Sea paradox...
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 01:09:43 pm by Tiammat »


  • Entity
  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2778
    • View Profile
    • The Chrono Compendium
Re: A theory about "Time Counciousness"
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 10:51:08 pm »
If time were a conscious entity would create problems for the notion of free will, but I don't think that there's any in game evidence to support that. Is there anything I've overlooked?


  • Guest
Re: A theory about "Time Counciousness"
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 11:15:47 pm »
Yeah, there is no "ingame" support for this... I spent a whole day trying to figure out a way to exit the Serge/Dead Sea paradox (i am not sure if it's a paradox, if not, someone explain, please)

Instead of thinking in time itself as an entity, i think it's more conceivable to think in an Entity capable of creating timelines if necessary...

Was The Serge/Dead Sea thing desmistified by the Chrono Compendium? If someone knows the answer, please post a link to the article or explanation...

« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 11:26:32 pm by Tiammat »


  • Guest
Re: A theory about "Time Counciousness"
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 12:23:37 am »
Hum... i just finished thinking in another theory... this is much simpler...

When Kid saves Serge, "Home World" is IMMEDIATELY created... Since it is created in a VERY little amount of time, there is no time to Kid to save Serge and call him form HOME in 1020 A.D.... Then, in the EXACT moment of the creation of Home (in which all its events is being created), Kid never calls Serge from Another in 1020 A.D, since she is, at that time, saving him in 1010 A.D.... then, "no dimensional travel"... hence, bad future in Home's default... later Kid goes to 1020 and calls him, leading to Cross events...

All makes sense now...

People, forget all about Time Counciouness... but it shows what a strange mind can do with one day of ociosity... i hope you don't mind if i transform this forum in my imaginary friend... sometimes posting my ideas is the key to achieve better ones.

And thanks for Radical Dreamer for the reply...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 05:53:16 pm by Tiammat »


  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Time Traveler (+800)
  • *
  • Posts: 812
  • Never say never... Nothing is impossible...
    • View Profile
Re: A theory about "Time Counciousness"
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2008, 06:22:43 am »
When they went to 2300A.D they should arrive at the "brigther" future and saw that the saved the world and save it because that actually happen...