Author Topic: Retranslation Thread List  (Read 1214 times)

maggiekarp

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2007, 05:32:18 am »
That's the thing about CT discussion, though. These folks were more into the innovative RPG gameplay than the story, which seems to be what we're all bonering for. They want a fun game inspired by CT, not necessarily a continuation.

They've got a point about the Retranslation, goal aside, even if they were... I guess "rude"'s the best word here, about it. The bulk of the fandom isn't gonna like something so unfamiliar and clunky.

Overall a good listen, I think.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2007, 01:51:04 pm »
I've added more to my transcript, and it just gets worse! (Everything after "in English, it's like ok, stupid." is new)

Edit-Except for a few gaps, I'm pretty much done transcribing the talk about the re-translation.

In another part, they say they'd want a game in a new world with the exact same system as CT over a "real sequel".

Q.E.D.

Vehek

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2008, 02:39:52 am »
One thing I wonder about is the impact of the sample lines given on the Retranslation page. Do you think people would have reacted differently if more drastically different lines or more natural sounding lines had been chosen?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 02:42:35 am by Vehek »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2008, 02:52:07 am »
People probably only give that image a cursory glance, and form strong opinions after they're hit with more lines while playing the game.

Vehek

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2008, 02:58:00 am »
Well, I was thinking about the impression people get even before trying the patch. Some people have dismissed the retranslation effort on those lines alone (I think this part is mostly before the patch was released).

Vehek

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2008, 12:03:19 am »
Not a thread, but something I found just now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H03byYZaSrI
Quote
I am only slogging through this to show people the difference, but as you will see in my video, I am bit angry about something...and thats the fact that Chrono Compendium attempts to discredit the original translation by saying there are mistakes in it, but yet....you see my point.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2008, 12:47:03 am »
I have made my reply. Looks like another person failed to read the Retranslation page.

nightmare975

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2008, 01:14:39 am »
I have made my reply. Looks like another person failed to read the Retranslation page.

I guess you cannot stop a madman from ranting, go check out his reply to you.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2008, 01:25:06 am »
His is a vague, middle-of-the-line complaint. Still, this all just puts off that Chrono Trigger fanboy vibe, like I got from that radio show, the people who ranted in broken English when CTR got a C&D order, and the kind who criticize Cross. You know, the ones who believe Chrono Trigger is God's Perfection or a perfect RPG; that kind of thing. I think we did offend some ultra-CT lovers.

Vehek

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2008, 08:10:02 pm »
Archive I saved a while back
Quote from: GameFAQs
Vlado | Posted 9/29/2007 1:59:36 AM | message detail
Much as I dislike the fanatical anti-CT behaviour of the owner of that site, I have to give it up for the guys who spent hours of their life working on the re-translation.

Here's the truly relevant info:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html
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Super Slash | Posted 9/29/2007 2:46:23 AM | message detail
Hmm... I might try this.
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Suicide Vitriol | Posted 9/29/2007 12:05:53 PM | message detail
I have to give it up for the guys who spent hours of their life working on the re-translation.

No, see, that's the nice thing about it. You don't.

You can just look and say, "Wow what a bunch of wasted time and talent that could have been put to better use. Actual creative, useful individuals have died decades before their time from things like cancer or drug abuse or crazy gunmen, but these guys, these little urban achievers, felt it was a worthwhile endeavor to translate a game that has already existed in perfectly serviceable English for 12 years.

They set out to 'fix' a game that has already endeared hundreds of thousands with its charming original translation. Way to go, gentlemen.

While Mother 3 still sits incompleted, you have brought us a gift far greater. Finally, the injustice of fighting rock stars instead of condiments has been rectified."

See, you could do that instead.
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Vehek | Posted 9/29/2007 1:51:59 PM | message detail
Kwhazit did it as a hobby. And that was just the translation part.

And do you even know what mistakes were made in the original?
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If I am thus to vanish and be no more...... That in itself will be interesting!!-Magus, Japanese Chrono Trigger
Zeality | Posted 9/29/2007 3:59:02 PM | message detail
Yes, this was a hobby done by a Chrono fan for Chrono fans, not the work of some retranslation team. We wanted a canonical retranslation.

The project's pretty unique in that way. RPGOne's CT project has been sitting dormant for years now, and it's not like DarknessSavior or Suzaku's will be completed until 2009. But it's not like those will even be needed now. So lecture them.
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Play the retranslation of Chrono Trigger!
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
Shadow_Bunny | Posted 9/29/2007 10:02:30 PM | message detail
You know, you could just not use the patch instead of berating someone for making it.
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serenitychan | Posted 9/30/2007 1:47:16 AM | message detail
Oh great! I didn't have time to read the whole translation and just looked at the major differences. Might be cool to play through again and see what everybody *really* said in the game. Thanks for the patch =]
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Siculu | Posted 9/30/2007 8:09:31 AM | message detail
Great, I've been looking forward to this. Thanks to everyone involved.
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Falroth | Posted 9/30/2007 8:50:11 AM | message detail
I applied the patch and tested my end save file with it, and i already found a glitch..

Try talking to Ayla in the End of Time (in this case, the Far Reaches) towards the end of the game.... yeeesh what a glitch!!

Apart from this single flaw, it was very well done. But that sure is an ugly flaw.
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Elsporko | Posted 9/30/2007 10:08:44 PM | message detail
While Mother 3 still sits incompleted, you have brought us a gift far greater.


The translation is pretty close to being done. You can even download a partial translation now.
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Travincal | Posted 9/30/2007 10:29:15 PM | message detail
I've found some bugs.

The new name for the town of Porre- the inn is still called Porre Inn instead of the new name

It is impossible to aquire a Dreamstone Bow for Marl. Both choices, "yes" and "no" with the caveman, act like "no".

There was another sequence earlier where yes and no had the opposite effect each, forgot where.

Cursor glitches and blocks part of the text sometimes.
BMJ | Posted 10/3/2007 10:46:04 PM | message detail
The thing that always bothers me about fan translations is when they make the translation worse, favoring accuracy over substance. I'm sure it's more accurate to the original source (I'll tell you when I've had enough soda!), but the actual meaning is lost. Let me explain.

Take Frog's name for example. In Japanese, it has 2 meanings: frog and transform. The English name Frog, preserves one of those meanings. To an English speaker Kaeru preserves neither of those meanings. It's just a gibberish name. The original translators went with Frog, which is the best you'll get meaning wise. The point is, in being more "accurate," the fansub actually loses meaning to an English speaker.

If translating for meaning, I'm sure there would be plenty of things I'd change in the game. Janus's Japanese name, Jaki, is a pun on Evil Aura. Imagine if he's been called Evara or something in the English translation. The name no longer sounds the same, but is closer in meaning.

When translating languages, some subtleties are going to be lost. What's important is trying to convey the point as accurately as possible. When a word is found that doesn't translate well, it shouldn't just be left untranslated. That's lazy and doesn't work at all. If this translation had done nothing but go through and remove the censorship and obvious errors I'd be happy. The reason I'm not interested in it though, is that it gets no more meaning across than the original.
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Vehek | Posted 10/3/2007 10:57:18 PM | message detail
Kwhazit didn't bother trying to preserve the whole kaeru thing either. He just went with "Frog"
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If I am thus to vanish and be no more...... That in itself will be interesting!!-Magus, Japanese Chrono Trigger
joseph_sw | Posted 10/4/2007 2:38:09 AM | message detail
kaeru ?

oh, you mean like the kero-kero-pi (the famous green amphibian icon)?
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Zeality | Posted 10/4/2007 9:25:53 AM | message detail
The Japanese meanings, puns, and connotations are all noted in the annotated scripts. There was no way to note them in the game, however.
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Play the retranslation of Chrono Trigger!
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
Will VIIII | Posted 10/4/2007 8:08:37 PM | message detail
Perhaps you can answer my question. I sent an email not long ago, but doesn't hurt to ask you too.

Will this patch work with the Chrono Trigger Coliseum patch? I used both and so far the game seems to work perfectly fine. Would that cause it to glitch later?

Or has this not been considered? I'll probably find out anyway as I play.
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Will VIIII | Posted 10/4/2007 9:05:30 PM | message detail
Maybe not. Gonzales was blue and I couldn't fight him. It didn't freeze or anything but I just couldn't fight him
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Magus | Posted 10/4/2007 10:31:51 PM | message detail
Good stuff.

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Zeality | Posted 10/5/2007 8:46:09 AM | message detail
Oops, I don't check chronocompendium@gmail as much as I should. I sent a reply.
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Play the retranslation of Chrono Trigger!
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
Frog2 | Posted 10/6/2007 5:37:21 PM | message detail
That's really cool dude. *gets*

Thanks for posting this here.
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BigoSmallo | Posted 10/6/2007 6:22:02 PM | message detail
What the hell is the point of translating an english game into a different type of english game?! This was a huge waste of time and I really enjoyed the originals dialogue, they could have spent their time translating other amazing japanese games that were never released in english but they decided to waste their time on this. Dissapointing
Vehek | Posted 10/6/2007 6:29:33 PM | message detail
Again, it was just a hobby for Kwhazit.
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Zeality | Posted 10/6/2007 9:14:36 PM | message detail
Yeah, sorry, but the Chrono Compendium is not part of the ROM hacking translation scene. KWhazit translated what he wanted to out of his own time apart from the people who specifically shoot for Japanese games. It's something to make you feel good and privileged about being a Chrono Trigger fan, not hate the world.
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Play the retranslation of Chrono Trigger!
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
Elsporko | Posted 10/7/2007 8:12:02 PM | message detail
I really enjoyed the originals dialogue


Some people didn't.
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V Translanka | Posted 10/10/2007 3:56:40 PM | message detail
What the hell is the point of translating an english game into a different type of english game?!

They didn't include a COMPLETE translation in the orignal English translation, bub. Things were left out for various reasons: censorship, time restraints, & cart space limitations.

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nimeoa | Posted 10/11/2007 12:26:17 AM | message detail
My biggest problem with this so far is that often, the original translation of certain dialogue means the exact same thing, but sounds way less convoluted than in this retranslation.
1337ozPWNSTEAK | Posted 10/11/2007 12:59:14 AM | message detail
I downloaded it and found out it will work with BOTH snes9x and zsnes! However, my biggest complaint is that it's very glitchy. Lots of screen flicker and Zero-Wing-esque engrish make it a bit hard to work with. Hopefully as I move farther along, it won't be as tough to play.
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Super Slash | Posted 10/11/2007 12:59:56 AM | message detail
I don't want to download this until the bugs are fixed.
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Lvthn | Posted 10/17/2007 9:45:31 PM | message detail
Played it through.

I must say...waste of time. A quick review, and I'm being honest here:

Riddled with Engrish. Really bad Engrish. I have no idea why this is, but the dialogue is definitely a lot less charming in many places. Famous and delightful lines like "Tis the Masamune?" are removed.

The naming conventions make little sense to most English speakers and add nothing to the game. Do I care if Crono is now Crono-sama? No. That actually just kinda irritates me.

Item names are often...wtf. Accurate maybe, but decidedly less informative, if that's possible.

Stuff changed: profanity is now kept intact and soda is now sake. Yay? Oh yeah, there was one really humorous bit involving Ayla and Marle that was restored (Guardia Castle, just before fighting Yakra XIII). That was cute.

Overall, this could have been better by just restoring a few of the harsher words, putting "beer" or something in place of soda, and restoring the above mentioned scene. The other differences are honestly totally negligible and you'll be hard pressed to figure out why anyone cares or thinks that the original translation was lacking.

I applaud the effort, but this is not an improved translation.
Zeality | Posted 10/18/2007 1:28:41 PM | message detail
I applaud the effort, but this is not an improved translation.

Well, I'm not posting from Gamespot, so I cant use the correct image. So I'll just paraphrase:

You really missed it that time, slugger!

"Welcome to last week" would also be applicable.
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Play the retranslation of Chrono Trigger!
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
sonicandtails218 | Posted 10/18/2007 5:37:13 PM | message detail
In other words, it's meant to be an accurate translation from Japanese to English. If nothing else, this shows why localization as well as translation is important in video games.
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Lvthn | Posted 10/21/2007 8:58:00 PM | message detail
Hmm? I got the point, but I disagree with your assessment that this is an improvement. Accuracy does not equate to better translation. There is always the need to take the audience into account and make it playable. Many of the words used in this re-translation make no sense at all to an English speaker.

Not only that, but even perfectly accurate translation will still miss things. I recall seeing a interview with the creator of Neon Genesis Evangelion in which he stated that he felt American audiences would read more into the symbolism than he intended, because in Japan Judeo-Christian symbols are exotic and neutral, while in the US they will almost unavoidably seen as allegory.

Jyaki (the re-translation's version of Janus) means nothing to me. Janus is a mildly exotic name that connotates the Greek god by that name and maybe has a mystical feeling to it. Jyaki sounds like Engrish for jockey, even though I am aware that it means evil aura.

Like I said, I applaud the effort but it is not a definitive functional translation, more like a curiousity that could be much better understood with a simple "translation differences" document.
AceTheMage | Posted 10/22/2007 12:54:58 AM | message detail
Lvthn
Posted 10/17/2007 10:45:31 PM
message detail

The naming conventions make little sense to most English speakers and add nothing to the game. Do I care if Crono is now Crono-sama? No. That actually just kinda irritates me.

Well, here's the thing. English is a very casual/informal language, thus, it's hard to detect tone when it's written. Without honorific, it's really hard to tell what attitude the speaker has towards the subject. In your example, using -sama denotes respect, and adding it in the translation provides more depth in the story and allows the player to understand the intent of the speech better.

Oh, and like others have said, if you don't like it, you don't have to use it. It's been said that the purpose of this project is to bring the game closer to the original. So, if you don't like a more literal translation that tries to reserve the original, then just play the English version as is.
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Zeality | Posted 10/22/2007 1:13:23 AM | message detail
Accuracy does not equate to better translation

Cite me on this. I've only said that we wanted to make a canonical bible, and that we could never hope to outdo Ted Woolsey or an equal salaried localization team.
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Play the retranslation of Chrono Trigger!
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
fidormula | Posted 10/27/2007 6:12:40 PM | message detail
"Many of the words used in this re-translation make no sense at all to an English speaker."

Not just words, but entire sentences are syntactically awkward and sometimes incoherent. There are also many typographical errors.

I admire the project and believe that accuracy is important, but I don't think that readability should be sacrificed for the sake of a few ideas. So far, the ideas are outnumbered. I've enjoyed: the fact that Crono's mom has a name, that Marle is short for Marledia, Frog's line about being drunk with victory, and the Chancellor's continued use of the term "terrorist" when describing Crono.

If you guys plan on putting out another version, let me know. I volunteer to proof it. I'm an English major (not that that high of an education is necessary for a game as simplistic as CT, but it clearly didn't get a proper proofreading the first time). I suppose I could just download Temporal Flux and git'r'dun myself, but I don't want to be any more presumptuous than I have already.

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sonicandtails218 | Posted 10/27/2007 9:05:58 PM | message detail
Guys, it's meant to be a fully literal translation. We don't need a less literal translation for the benefit of the reader-Woolsey already did one.
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Zeality | Posted 10/27/2007 9:30:08 PM | message detail
"Proofing" it will sacrifice accuracy of its own volition by creating a second-generation distillation in the English language. The translator is the only one who can preserve the original meaning, and since a great US translation already exists (officially, too), we're not going to try and outdo it. Instead, we created a canonical bible.

None of the sentences is "totally unreadable".
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Play the retranslation of Chrono Trigger!
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
fidormula | Posted 10/28/2007 12:11:34 PM | message detail
"it's meant to be a fully literal translation"

There is no such thing. The very act of translation requires one to pick and choose words, especially when we are dealing with languages of two very different roots.

Proofreading for coherence is one thing. Proofreading for typos is another. You can't say that an obvious error is a literal translation.

For instance, before you get to name Robo, it says "Robo:" as he is speaking. If this is intentional, that's fine, but I see it as being a mistake that somebody didn't catch.

Which raises another point. Shouldn't the translator at least proof his own work?
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Zeality | Posted 10/28/2007 3:48:00 PM | message detail
There is no such thing.

Preserving the order of clauses and other sentence structure qualifies 'literal'.

Oh, and next time we proof 400 kb of pure text, we'll call you. I'm sure you'll be able to deliver a completely typo-free product.
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Play the retranslation of Chrono Trigger!
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html
fidormula | Posted 10/28/2007 4:59:51 PM | message detail
Oddly enough, that sounds like my idea of fun.
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Vehek

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Re: Retranslation Thread List
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2008, 08:22:57 pm »
Grr...
From the youtube video:
Quote
(me) (56 minutes ago) Show Hide Marked as spam
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Reply | Spam
We've only found ONE error so far as far as I know in Kwhazit's re-translation. Error as in "mistake in meaning".
MagusX1 (31 minutes ago) Show Hide Marked as spam
Reply | Spam
Yuo donot get it do you? Your script is not easy to understand, obviously the purists such as yourself donot get it.....its not easy to understand.
I've also found the Gametrailers thread he mentioned and put it in the first post.
edit-
Yaaarghhhhh!
Quote from: MagusX1, Gametrailers
You will notice that the Chrono Compendium folks are not happy with me in the least, but yet, I have caught them in their arrogance about their new translation. Thats what pisses me off about it, is they claim not to bash the original script, but they do it anyway.....so now they came to my page and well yea...you get the point.

edit 2-I've gotten in an argument with him through Youtube's PMs. It looks like it's mostly over the words of the re-translation page. He thinks they're arrogant.

EDIT 3-
To anyone reading this: If you're going to criticize MagusX1, do so in a civilized manner...
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 05:30:02 pm by Vehek »