Author Topic: Further Character Discussion  (Read 72853 times)

V_Translanka

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2007, 09:25:22 pm »
Quote from: dankun
Let's not deviate from the topic at hand. You and the others were comparing the game to the RPG's for the PC.
Cross has nothing to do with those.

You're kidding, right? 1) I don't think any of this at all is the topic at hand, 2) who cares what system the RPG the comparison is being made of is on? does that somehow make it any less of an RPG?, & 3) I wasn't making a comparison at all, I was simply arguing the fact that PC RPGs kick just as much ass as console RPGs.

Quote from: dankun
Poshul, Turnip and NeoFio for Cross, and Ayla, Magus and Robo for Triigger. Just do a simple comparison between their backstories, using the encyclopedia. You'll be shocked  by the results.

As I've said before and I'll no doubt say again: A BACKSTORY DOES NOT MAKE THE ENTIRETY OF CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! Not only that, but if NeoFio & Poshul actually have a backstory outside of them just being there, I WILL be shocked. The fact is that Ayla, Magus, and Robo all actually SHOW character. They are individuals each with their own outstanding personalities. We gleen this through their various actions, interactions and dialogs.

Quote from: dankun
Cross doesn't  have clearly defined characters?
Than what about: Kid, Serge, Harle, Lynx, Norris, Karsh, Nikki, Fargo, Viper, Radius, Riddel, Marcy, Leena, Razzly, Sprigg, Glenn, Starky, etc...?
That's at least 17 characters that are very much well developed.
If you don't call that having clearly defined characters, I don't know what you will.

Quote from: maggiekarp
17 out of 40-something is not exactly awesome, dude. And half of the ones you listed are debatable.

Quoted for emphasis...I'd say more than half are debatable myself because you say 'WELL developed' and 'clearly defined"...of which, I'd only put Kid and Harle...oh, and LYNX IS THE ANTAGONIST! We're talking about the playable characters...But I'll allow it...though it's actually FATE...

Quote from: dankun
Thery're still just FPS in disguise. I never really cared much for the Ultimas series either.

Since when is the Diablo series or Fallout series a "FPS in disguise"??? And Oblivion is far from "just a FPS in disguise"...By your logic I bet you call Phantasy Star "just a FPS in disguise"...*eye roll emoticon*
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 09:27:06 pm by V_Translanka »

CelestialPhantasm

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2007, 06:08:48 pm »


Design: A classy, elegant costume.  The mask adds an air of mystery, naturally.  Perfect for a magician (and certainly more appealing than Sneff's presentation)

Battle: Very good.  Second strongest magic attack stat, I believe- and by end game he has the most high level grid slots.

Tilt: Guile has a lot of style, charm, and grace.  The lack of any real development or story hurts him quite a bit though.  He still manages to barely get a

B

CelestialPhantasm

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2007, 08:17:23 pm »
While I was a bit more impressed with Turnip after reading his entry, Poshul's and NeoFio's don't shed any new light

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Poshul.html

dankun

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2007, 03:51:05 pm »
You're kidding, right? 1) I don't think any of this at all is the topic at hand, 2) who cares what system the RPG the comparison is being made of is on? does that somehow make it any less of an RPG?, & 3) I wasn't making a comparison at all, I was simply arguing the fact that PC RPGs kick just as much ass as console RPGs.

You're the one who's kidding.
1) Have you read the topic of this thread?
2) It DOES matter, because computer RPG's are for the most part other types of games (like FPS or RTS games) in disguise.
3) I know that you didn't make the comparison between them, but other people were.

As I've said before and I'll no doubt say again: A BACKSTORY DOES NOT MAKE THE ENTIRETY OF CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! Not only that, but if NeoFio & Poshul actually have a backstory outside of them just being there, I WILL be shocked. The fact is that Ayla, Magus, and Robo all actually SHOW character. They are individuals each with their own outstanding personalities. We gleen this through their various actions, interactions and dialogs.

Okay, so if backstory isn't exactly the most important thing in character development... what other elements would you consider that are most important? Having your own personal music theme? Having double and triple techs with other characters?
You say that they actually show character through their actions, but in what form is this different than the actions that Cross' characters perform?  They still just follow around the main character of the game and basically just do everything in the same way that another character would, with a somewhat different line.

Your whole point is based on the fact that Cross' characters aren't deveoloped just because they don't say different things? The whole point of that, which you completely ignored in my previous posts, was so that you could play with whatever cast of characters you chose. Also, the localization team that worked on Cross did a wonderful job in precisely doing just that . By giving them their special accents, which you apparently decidedly choose to ignore based only on the fact that you don't like them.

Quote from: maggiekarp
17 out of 40-something is not exactly awesome, dude. And half of the ones you listed are debatable.
Quoted for emphasis...I'd say more than half are debatable myself because you say 'WELL developed' and 'clearly defined"...of which, I'd only put Kid and Harle...oh, and LYNX IS THE ANTAGONIST! We're talking about the playable characters...But I'll allow it...though it's actually FATE...

Again.... debatable on what gounds? That you persnoally don't like most of them? The characters that were listed all have a fairly decent amount of characterization. And I even neglected to mention a few others that also get some development, like: Zappa, Korcha, Irenes, Mel, Luccia, Grobyc and Zoah.

Since when is the Diablo series or Fallout series a "FPS in disguise"??? And Oblivion is far from "just a FPS in disguise"...By your logic I bet you call Phantasy Star "just a FPS in disguise"...*eye roll emoticon*

I was talking about Oblivion, which for some reason most people actually consider it a RPG.
My point is still valid, because when they're not FPS then they are RTS games in disguise, for the most part.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 03:55:57 pm by dankun »

Kebrel

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2007, 02:54:43 am »
Quote
Okay, so if backstory isn't exactly the most important thing in character development... what other elements would you consider that are most important? Having your own personal music theme? Having double and triple techs with other characters?

Changing, A perfect example Poshul vs. Pierre at first Poshul is big pink lovable monstrosity, and Pierre is some over the top French swordsman. But after the game is done Pierre has come to know that A hero must have determination, must know that when he is scared he must still pull through. That is development as apposed to Poshul who after all is down is the exactly as she was at the beginning. How did she grow? how did she better her self? 

Your whole point is based on the fact that Cross' characters aren't deveoloped just because they don't say different things? The whole point of that, which you completely ignored in my previous posts, was so that you could play with whatever cast of characters you chose. Also, the localization team that worked on Cross did a wonderful job in precisely doing just that . By giving them their special accents, which you apparently decidedly choose to ignore based only on the fact that you don't like them.
I almost envy you, you are so easily impressed with them randomly adding "CHA" that you thought it okay for them two forgo growth of the people talking them selfs.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 01:53:34 pm by Kebrel »

V_Translanka

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2007, 07:52:23 pm »
Quote from: dankun
1) Have you read the topic of this thread?
2) It DOES matter, because computer RPG's are for the most part other types of games (like FPS or RTS games) in disguise.

The topic of the thread is Further Character Discussion and we're discussing how Cross can be compared to PC RPGs as much as others...It's stupid to think they can't be because you're making a broad generalization about PC RPGs. The fact remains, all games are made on computers first as programs. To call Diablo or Fallout a FPS OR RTS "in disguise", which neither series is (Fallout even has a very dedicated SRPG game in the series), only further shows how baseless your accusation is.

Quote from: dankun
You say that they actually show character through their actions, but in what form is this different than the actions that Cross' characters perform?  They still just follow around the main character of the game and basically just do everything in the same way that another character would, with a somewhat different line.

You're obviously forgetting key points in Trigger. Magus manipulates an entire race and then when is sent back to Zeal, manipulates his own mother in his attempts to get revenge upon Lavos and also confronts his mother on the Black Omen. Ayla disciplines Kino, fights Azala for Crono's Gate Key, makes a heartfelt speech to the old man of Laruba, and goes to obtain the Dactyls so that she can go to face Azala one last time. Robo helps to repair the Masamune (granted, Lucca could do the same), restores Fiona's Forest by staying behind to tend it, enlightens the party to the fact that Lavos is not behind the creation of the gates (MAJOR!!!), is forced to confront and destroy his friend Atropos, and then fights against his "mother" the Mother Brain.

And that's mostly just what they DO and not what they say (I added the part about Ayla's speech because it kicks butt). If you can give as many good examples for unique ventures on Poshul, Turnip and NeoFio's behalf, be my guest.

Oh, and if you think a freakin ACCENT equals character development, then our ideas of character development are obviously separated by a vast gulf my friend...Most of the accents don't make sense regionally (I don't remember a France or an Australia), which I can overlook (I recall a certain amphibian character with a quasi-English way of speaking), but there are those which are beyond stupid and some aren't even used right (Irenes). Saying the exact same thing only with a different accent doesn't give near as good individuality as saying something different with the same accent as everyone else.

Your objections to action/adventure RPGs with a changed POV (what you call FPSs "in disguise") don't make sense to me.

V_Translanka

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2007, 09:54:02 pm »
After checking out some of the art (in an attempt to create my Magness versions of Luccia & Grobyc), man, I love some of the ORIGINAL designs...

Draggy


Razzly


Van


Luccia


Fargo


Korcha


Mel


Grobyc

Kyronea

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2007, 10:03:49 pm »
Yeah...Mel and Korcha have much better designs in this art than they did in the game. Why didn't they go with this art?

V_Translanka

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2007, 10:07:43 pm »
Maybe to accentuate how lame they (Korcha & Mel) are.

Kyronea

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2007, 10:09:12 pm »
Still...that coatvest thingy Mel is wearing would've been great...as well as making her a little older, since she's just a brat as she is now.

V_Translanka

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2007, 10:15:11 pm »
Uhm, she does have that vest thingy...



Though it doesn't look as cool on her...and it's slightly different, I guess...

I kinda like her hair more in the orignals too (both versions really)...

Kyronea

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2007, 10:25:02 pm »
I forgot about that. The original design is better, as is her hair design.

Really, Mel is a piece of crap in the actual game. What moron thought this version was better than that art?

cupn00dles

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2007, 10:58:16 pm »
Draggy Duck so cute! I like to have one in party. Aww.

Kebrel

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2007, 09:22:26 pm »
Fargo and Grobyc Look like there straight out of a finial fantasy.

V_Translanka

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Re: Further Character Discussion
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2007, 09:24:23 pm »
I'll agree with you there on hair alone (because spikey=Cloud=Nomura), but not the rest...