what didn't you like about chrono trigger/cross ...

[Glennleo]

After reading through this thread, and seeing most of the complains for Chrono Trigger, I am so incredibly lucky to be a part of Chrono Trigger +.

We are fixing every problem listed here, and more.

Thanks for letting me be a part of this great undertaking, Zakyrus and Kyronea.

[Blackcaped_imp]

It is good to know that after all that "past actions that are not going to change, even if you do not like them" smash of ideas, some group of real heroes are doing something, just do your best Chrono Trigger + team, your are an inspiration, and a salvation after all that crappy fighting (although it is not all crappy, you may help some of these guys, so keep up the good dirty work mates!).

[knuck]

EDIT:
@knuck: Humour is necessary in most tragic stories. If there is too much sadness, people end up getting bored or a bit too depressed. Look at Romeo and Juliet, one of the greatest tragic plays (well, it's ok...). Shakespear adds humour to it, even though it is a tragic story.

I think the game wasn't tragic enough though.

And what is the big deal with Crono and Serge being silent protagonists? They are silent so we can create our own image of their personality. If you are too unimaginative to think of what they could be like, then that is your own problem. A persons interaction with any sort of artform is what gives the artform meaning and life. I could go through the entire game believing that Crono is a dickhead, and mould my perception of the story around it. Or, I could imagine that Crono's father committed suicide, and because of that, Crono is silent (but I guess that is taking it too far).

The big deal is that back in 1995 when videogames were for kids (specially the snes) and graphics and ROM space was limited, it was fine to just make the protagonist silent. It was actually pretty common to do that on RPGs I think. Zelda, Enix's games, etc. I think it's because the developers wanted to give the feel that YOU are Crono (hence why the "Enter Character Name" screen was so common in rpgs), just like in hentai games where the main character doesn't have a name, and he usually does not have his voice dubbed (it's just text) to give the feeling that the main character is YOU.
Yep, in 1995 that was fine. But CC was made in 1999. RAM/ROM didn't matter as much. Why maintain the main character silent? The only answer I can come up with is "to make people not think this isn't Chrono even more".
I think that's another reason why I like RD I guess. Serge wasn't mute. He could talk and think and I love his personality. I'd rather let the developers make a personality for the characters instead of letting me think of one myself. I'm not playind D&D, I'm playing a console videogame.
It does seem like they were lazy, but I doubt that's the case.

(And about Square silent protagonists, Cloud and Squall are pretty much silent throughout the entire game. I guess Square like their characters to be good silent little boys.)

You know what kind of silent protagonist we are talking about.

@Some other guy: Hah, betrayed. They don't owe you anything. They could've made it into a game where you kiss Kato's arse all day, and that still wouldn't be traitorous. Unless of course, they DO owe you something, or you own shares... But I severely doubt that. And V's right, don't get your knickers in a knot over a RPG.

Fans have the right to feel betrayed by their idols when the former does the complete opposite of what their fans expect.

EDIT 2:
@knuck: You know which one doesn't? Chocobo, from Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales (an excellent game which I reccommend to anyone who owns a DS)

I thought we were talking about real Final Fantasys. >_>

[maggiekarp]

On second thought, the only real problem I had with CT was Marle's sidequest.

The King's trial should have been timed, and if you didn't get there in time, Yakra would crush him with a giant iron ball or anvil.

His dying words would add some much-needed tragedy.

[ZeaLitY]

Zeal was profound, deep, artistic, beautiful, and tragic. It was all written by Kato, and those qualities are all more concentrated in Chrono Cross than in Chrono Trigger. Of course, the producers were different and Kato apparently wrote himself into a "explain everything on Opassa (bad pacing)" corner. Still, Kato brought the best of the best era and characters in Chrono Trigger to Chrono Cross. Without the extra characters and with better plot pacing, it would be even better. For reference, Horii wrote the basic CT plot line, and Kato tweaked it while adding 12,000 B.C. all by himself.

So it's hard to say the developers "betrayed" Chrono Trigger unless you're talking about specific things, or Yuji Horii. For the former, CT "betrayed" RPG convention at the time with New Game +, multiple endings, double techs...and Tanaka and Kato decided to continue that ideal of innovation with Cross's element system and parallel worlds. For the latter, well, I guess that's personal preference. If you feel Kato betrayed CT fans by not maintaining Horii's sense of fun, lighthearted (but subject to creating temporal plot holes) story, well, there's plenty of that in Dragon Quest. And even then, Kato put a lot of humor into Chrono Cross, in turn augmented by Richard Honeywood's love of phonetic puns. But no, it's not your "lighthearted Goku" kind of plot-driven humor.

[knuck]

Zeal was profound, deep, artistic, beautiful, and tragic. It was all written by Kato, and those qualities are all more concentrated in Chrono Cross than in Chrono Trigger. Of course, the producers were different and Kato apparently wrote himself into a "explain everything on Opassa (bad pacing)" corner. Still, Kato brought the best of the best era and characters in Chrono Trigger to Chrono Cross. Without the extra characters and with better plot pacing, it would be even better. For reference, Horii wrote the basic CT plot line, and Kato tweaked it while adding 12,000 B.C. all by himself.

Man, Zeal was the most beautiful part of CT. Can you believe I had tears on my eyes last time I saw it being destroyed by Lavos? And that was last year...

[Burning Zeppelin]

Maybe Square just wanted to keep the silent protagonist theme running, seeing as how nothing else really matched up in the series

Artists make art. If everyone was trying to please someone else, we'd still be worshipping idols made of wood, painting pictures of those idols made of wood, and be listening to songs about pictures of idols made of wood. What I'm trying to say is geniuses can't always stay the same. People got really pissed off when Miles Davis started moving away from jazz and more into fusion, but he had to do it - he's a genius, of course he's going to try new things. Same with Radiohead. People started hating Radiohead because they became more and more electronic. Those people, the people who didn't like the new approach to music, they felt betrayed. Why? I'd be more pissed off if all we got for a Chrono Trigger sequel was "Crono finds himself saving the world from Lavos once again, with a humanoid robot, a sassy princess, a technowhiz girl, and a frog who speak English good". You don't own the artist; the artist owns YOU!

I should rewrite that so it makes more sense...but you don't own me; I own YOU! (when it comes to my posts)

[Joseph Silver]

I guess it's my turn to reply to this topic...

Chrono Trigger is virtually flawless, but if I had to pick a flaw, it would be its size.  There is a lot of unused space on the many world maps that could've been filled with minor cities, dungeons, etc.

In terms of gameplay, Chrono Cross is excellent.

In terms of plot, Chrono Cross fails miserably.  The plot is confusing and incredibly complicated.  The lack of a journal (common in RPGs nowadays) makes it difficult to understand the story because by the time new information is revealed, the past event that it applies to has long been forgotten.

Despite their flaws, I like the two games a lot.  In the end, playing a game is all about having fun.