Author Topic: The $%*! frustration thread  (Read 247159 times)

chrono eric

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2760 on: April 29, 2009, 08:52:07 pm »
The life of a person is worth more than the life of any animal.

Define "worth". If you are talking about subjective worth, then yes - many people would value the life of a person higher than the life of an animal. But many people - like yourself I am assuming - confuse subjective worth with objective worth. As V_Translanka said, there are many dogs that I too hold to much higher value than a great many people.

But how do you determine the true , objective, value of a life? Is one species more superior than another? Is one species more worthy of living than another?

If I believed that humans were objectively superior to animals, and thus their lives were objectively more valuable, then I would become a human doctor instead of a veterinarian because I  would conclude, as others like you indirectly say - that I am wasting my life and time by saving the lives of animals instead of the lives of people.

V_Translanka

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2761 on: April 29, 2009, 09:10:54 pm »
What if the human on the balance beam was a sick & dying old man, crying out in pain and wishing he were dead but the dog was a cute lil newborn puppy who just wanted to chew on your socks a bit? Or better yet, one of those amazing rescue dogs or one of those blind people's dogs (I guess those ones would be harder to tell on-sight though)?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 09:12:54 pm by V_Translanka »

chrono eric

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2762 on: April 29, 2009, 10:59:09 pm »
What you have described is still an example of subjective worth, but it illustrates just how convoluted the concept is - especially when people make such umbrella-claims as "every human life is worth more than any animal life".

To take your example further, what if the dying old man was weighed against a rescue dog that would go on to save dozens or hundreds of healthy human lives? What would the choice, based on a subjective determination of the worth of a life - be then?

These are questions that cannot reasonably be answered, of course, but it demonstrates just how useless it is to label the lives of all animals as inferior to those of humans - or to even place a value on a life of any higher species (human or otherwise) in the first place.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 11:09:40 pm by chrono eric »

KebreI

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2763 on: April 29, 2009, 11:44:06 pm »
Which is why I say: "I'll make the choice when I get there."

RedNeckJiuJitsu

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2764 on: April 30, 2009, 12:16:34 am »
Don't get me wrong, I like my dog and cat much more than I like a lot of people. However, my level of liking them != their value. In the subjective log over alligator infested sulfuric acid... Knowing nothing else, I would save the dying old man. And I know Zeality is going to hate me now, but the reason for that is because of my faith. Going any further than that would probably lead into a theological discussion that does not belong in the frustration thread.

IAmSerge

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2765 on: April 30, 2009, 01:41:22 am »
Personally, an AVERAGE humans value (not some radical extremist that everyone wants dead) in my opinion is greater than an average animal's value based upon one statistic mainly: intelligent communication...

If dogs or animals could speak... If any animal could speak and understand things on the same mental level as us... (not in a way that its like "BALL BALL BALL PLAY PLAY PLAY")... then the could and should be held on the same social status as us.

however until then my personal verdict will stand.

Lord J Esq

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2766 on: April 30, 2009, 01:54:49 am »
The kind of worth you people are talking about is arbitrary. We define the criteria and the scale. "Worth" does not exist in the physical sense as a general concept. In other words, there is no "worth" particle...it isn't biological, or chemical, or atomic. At best, we can associate worth with objective quantities. I do that in my philosophy, on very strict terms.

Anyhow, back on-topic: I am not particularly frustrated at the moment, but if I had to try, I would be topical and identify my extraordinary powers of procrastination. They're really quite terrifying in their ruthless efficiency.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2767 on: April 30, 2009, 11:44:53 am »
Fucking Amazon. Fucking US Postal System. I got gba Zelda from an Amazon seller, and the envelope and booklet showed up, ripped open with no game. That's a federal offense, right there, but to whom do I complain? (I already emailed the seller)

FUCK.

Zephira

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2768 on: April 30, 2009, 12:04:18 pm »
My frustration: Heavy textbooks and hills. We have a GIANT textbook in math class, and similarly GIANT textbook for flash. Add to that tablet and headphones. My backpack must have pulled one of my shoulders the wrong way, because it's really sore and doesn't like to move. At least it's not my drawing arm.

As for Amazon: It's better than ebay.
And procrastination: My 3D teacher encourages it.

V_Translanka

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2769 on: April 30, 2009, 12:23:54 pm »
Firefly was one of the best shows ever. I cannot believe that a show so good only got like one season...It's like they didn't even know what they had. Like they didn't even watch the show (I can't imagine someone watching it and not immediately understanding the greatness they were capturing). Or more like all they saw when they watched it were percentages, age brackets, and fucking pie charts...Just a bunch of corporate pricks chasing the numbers. No fucking wonder television as we know it is dying out. They sold out all of the art for sponsers. I feel no pity for them, certainly not anymore. Makes me sad to wonder...how many shows got that far? how many shows didn't even GET that far but were just as good? how many shows died because their pilot wasn't what they were looking for but that would have been better? how much art are we losing to this bullshit system run by people who are judging things on past sucesses? Comparing & contrasting like shows with what they believe are like audiences or who the sponsers would most profit from...fucking makes me want to puke or rage to know this kind of stuff is going on.

It was such a good show...So much more aching to be told. Its like I could tell that it just needed a little more time & a little more push and it would have really caught on...Cut down in its prime...

Thought

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2770 on: April 30, 2009, 12:51:26 pm »
It was a bad time to release a show like that. That was when Reality TV was the hot thing and anything more traditional got ignored. Course, it didn't help that the episodes were aired out of order and the time it was on kept changing. Really, it doesn't matter what the show if, when ever the time of a show is changed (especially to a new day and time), you loose viewers who aren't sure what is going and and subsequently never remember the new day and time (I'm one of those people).

It is like Fox had been given a baby unicorn and instead of nurturing it they clubbed it to death.

The fact that the fans got a movie of it made, after less than one season, should be a hint to Fox than they need to swallow their pride and beg Joss Whedon to start it up again. Or sell the rights to the SyFy channel so they can make it.

Along those lines, my wife and I have decided that if we ever have a daughter, she'll be named Kaylee. Yeah, we're freaks.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2771 on: April 30, 2009, 12:58:42 pm »
It is like Fox had been given a baby unicorn and instead of nurturing it they clubbed it to death.
Don't forget they drank it's blood too. (DVD SALES $$$$)

Quote
Along those lines, my wife and I have decided that if we ever have a daughter, she'll be named Kaylee. Yeah, we're freaks.
Yeah if I have a daughter she'll be named after a song by Cursive. The name is Sierra, and the song title as well. Maybe I'm a freak for that but listen to the song! It's great!

KebreI

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2772 on: April 30, 2009, 01:04:14 pm »
I dunno, its been so long. The actors have aged, story wise its a completely different atmosphere now, plus Joss has other projects. It's a toss up whether or not I want to see it back on air...maybe a miniseries?

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2773 on: April 30, 2009, 01:26:03 pm »
An animated miniseries? Hull yus!

chrono eric

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2774 on: April 30, 2009, 02:28:58 pm »
Frustration: A major storm ripped through here last night and it kept me up all night. I managed to fall asleep at about 6 AM but woke up again at 8, and then got intermittent sleep for the next couple of hours. Luckily I only have to work at 1 PM today. I would be majorly pissed off right now if I had to get up in the morning with no sleep at all.

Personally, an AVERAGE humans value (not some radical extremist that everyone wants dead) in my opinion is greater than an average animal's value based upon one statistic mainly: intelligent communication...

As Lord J Esq pointed out, this worth is still subjective and completely arbitrary. Why did you use intelligence as a measure of worth, and not some other biological trait instead? I could easily argue that the average lifespan of an animal should be a measure of the worth of their life, in which case the life of a human would not be worth more than the lives of several species. Or, I could just as easily argue that since high intelligence is extremely rare in the animal kingdom, that worth should be measured by some other more important and common trait. My earlier point is exemplified by your post here - you cannot assign any sort of objective value to any life, human or otherwise - no matter how much you may want to.