Author Topic: The $%*! frustration thread  (Read 478973 times)

justin3009

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1200 on: January 16, 2009, 12:18:04 am »
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It's actually worse to be underweight than overweight.

Well fuck.

Shee

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1201 on: January 16, 2009, 01:23:25 am »
To each their own.  yea I missed the part where eight became an issue in this thread.

But you know what really grinds my gears?  Bags of chips are getting worse I think.  THere's seriously like 3 chips in there!  I want my 65 cents back...

Daniel Krispin

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1202 on: January 16, 2009, 01:57:49 am »
I wish I could be fatter. I'm so skinny I could floss my teeth with my waistline.


... Ouch.

I'm with ya on that one. Also a bloody genetic thing. 6'1 and a mere 140lb. Argh. Heh.

Lord J Esq

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1203 on: January 16, 2009, 02:00:24 am »
Quote from: placidchap
What about Obese-bashing? I couldn't tell from your post if you categorize fat and obese under "Fat-bashing"?

When used to demean people, “fat” and “obese” are interchangeable. Bigots use both of these words pejoratively, and they do so almost independently of the victim's actual degree of fatness. Consequently, they can be just as mean to someone who is not technically overweight at all as they can to someone who weighs six hundred pounds.

The victim's actual degree of fatness doesn't matter. It's prejudice, all the same. Which brings me to this:

Quote from: placidchap
I'd have to agree with you there Faust. I shall modify my previous statement to reflect that I do not care for those who are obese and "choose" to do so.

I see you are trying to rationalize your bigotry by focusing more narrowly on extreme and willful fatness rather than fatness generally. No dice. You will have to be even more narrow in your construction to escape the realm of bigotry and pass into the space of reasonable preferences.

I will save you the trouble of figuring it out for yourself and give you the answer: Choosing to be fat, by itself, is not a character flaw. Neither is degree of fatness, nor the combination of choice and degree. This is because people may choose to be fat, or they may be very fat, or they may choose to be very fat, all within reasonable foundations. There are any number of legitimate reasons for people to be fat at their discretion. Because this is possible, it becomes impossible to make a general statement such as “I do not care for those who are obese and 'choose' to do so” without bigotry.

Only when the specific reasons in question are brought to light does it become possible to disparage a person for their fat without being bigoted about it—and, in that case, you're not really disparaging their fat anymore. You're disparaging their logic or their temperament. Indeed, fat itself is undisparagable, at any degree.

Recognizing that one's starting premise is faulty is the major obstacle for the bigot. In your case, you need to realize that there is nothing wrong with fat people per se. Body fat is what it is. At most, personality flaws, biological diseases, or social pressures can lead a person to undesired or inappropriate fatness, in which case you should disparage those factors and not the fatness, which in such instances is symptomatic rather than representative.

There is no “wrong” weight, low or high. The only thing that can be wrong is the “why” of it. If it's greed or sloth or lack of self-respect or lack of self-discipline that you're thinking of when you condemn a fat person, be adult about it and look beneath the surface.

nightmare975

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1204 on: January 16, 2009, 02:04:16 am »
I wish I could be fatter. I'm so skinny I could floss my teeth with my waistline.


... Ouch.

I'm with ya on that one. Also a bloody genetic thing. 6'1 and a mere 140lb. Argh. Heh.

5'11'' and I weigh between 115 and 130.

I fluctuate too much.

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1205 on: January 16, 2009, 03:03:29 am »
There is no “wrong” weight, low or high. The only thing that can be wrong is the “why” of it. If it's greed or sloth or lack of self-respect or lack of self-discipline that you're thinking of when you condemn a fat person, be adult about it and look beneath the surface.

What would you consider a "good" reason to be fat?

nightmare975

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1206 on: January 16, 2009, 03:37:32 am »
There is no “wrong” weight, low or high. The only thing that can be wrong is the “why” of it. If it's greed or sloth or lack of self-respect or lack of self-discipline that you're thinking of when you condemn a fat person, be adult about it and look beneath the surface.

What would you consider a "good" reason to be fat?

Don't freeze in the Winter.

BROJ

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1207 on: January 16, 2009, 03:58:35 am »
There is no “wrong” weight, low or high. The only thing that can be wrong is the “why” of it. If it's greed or sloth or lack of self-respect or lack of self-discipline that you're thinking of when you condemn a fat person, be adult about it and look beneath the surface.

What would you consider a "good" reason to be fat?
While you're not addressing me, there, like J said, could be any number of logical reasons. For instance, for work -- impact resistance and weight per se(see Newton's three laws of motion) are quite necessary for some jobs. Like nightmare said, warmth. Strength is another one. Try fighting off a heavy person in close quarters. Honestly, I could go on ad infinitum, but that question was obviously weighted against fat people. I hope this isn't how you judge people on a regular basis. :( And before you judge me, I'm not fat.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 04:01:53 am by BROJ »

Lord J Esq

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1208 on: January 16, 2009, 07:53:49 am »
Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
What would you consider a "good" reason to be fat?

I'll give you several.

Liking to eat is a good reason. Food is one of the most basic sources of pleasure. Both the rituals and sensualities of its consumption are the potential source of much satisfaction and pastime in life. It can lead to fatness, though, because over time our caloric needs have gone down (due to a reduced need for hard work in our everyday lives) even as food has become more abundant and delicious. Someone who likes to eat may be ambivalent toward the whole fat angle, but with the proper sense of perspective can learn to accept and even appreciate it. For instance, the health risks of being fat are overstated, society is slowly beginning to confront the prejudice which makes fatness so heavily stigmatized, and few individuals have a practical need for the extreme degree of physical fitness that fatness would inherently preclude.

The sensuality of fatness is another good reason—perhaps the best of all the reasons I have considered. The human body is intensely sensual, something that tends to be overlooked in our contradictorily hypersexed-yet-puritanical society. In between religious deprivation and overt sexuality, there are the myriad pleasures of the human body. The physical presence of body fat is the source for an entire group of these sensualities. The way that body fat feels, both by itself and in contrast; the way that it moves when the body is in motion; the heaviness and envelopingness of it; the continuous tug that it has, in a variety of natural positions; the feeling of fullness and vastness; all of these and more are great opportunities for awareness and appreciation of one's own body. Another whole group of sensualities relates back to the pleasures of eating and satiety, this time in contrast to their cumulative effect on the body in the form of adiposity.

Sex is another good reason to be fat. Both as a physical preference in oneself and/or one's partner, and as a fetish source, where applicable, fatness can play a central role in one's sexuality. That's no surprise, as eating and procreating are perhaps the two most fundamental actions an organism can undertake. It makes sense that they would go well together. Evolutionarily, fat has been used to great effect in both sexes for the enhancement of people's physical presence. Usually this fat was limited in quantity due to population dynamics, and so the excess of fat was not so common a thing in people until recently, but, when a mind latches on to fatness as an expression of sexuality, then it is natural for that person to find attractiveness in weights (for themselves and/or their partner(s)) that are higher or much higher than optimum.

Aesthetics is another good reason. The artistic inspirations of the human body are abundant and evident in every society both past and present. Far from there being only one body shape that can trigger these inspirations, all achievable human forms have aesthetic value and can provoke artistic exploration. Artistic preferences are difficult to explain; for instance, I like arches, and domes, and Ionian columns, what with their fluted shafts and scrolling capitals, and it would take me some effort to try and explain why I have these preferences, because I do not fully understand it myself. In exactly the same way, some people may simply be more “at home” aesthetically with fatter bodies than thinner ones. This becomes especially significant when you remember that the human body itself is one of the original media of expression.

Wellbeing is a good reason. Many fat people express considerable relief and satisfaction at their weight once they come to accept it. A common refrain is that these people feel as though their bodies are “stable” or “comfortable” or “happy” at whatever weight they specify. Some have even used the word “healthy.” One thing is for sure: Mentally, it's a lot healthier to accept where one's body is at than to self-loathe So, even if a person has no independent desire to be fat, if they feel as though their bodies are predisposed to a certain weight range, and cannot easily change their weight, then being fat and accepting that can be a sign of emotional maturity—another good reason to be fat.

Intellectuality can also provide good reason for being fat. If one associates fatness with positive and/or expressive qualities, then being fat becomes symbolic. Popularly, fat is associated only with negative qualities, and therefore people shy away from embracing fatness and even feel revulsion toward it. However, the same logic applies in the other direction. If fatness came to symbolize positive qualities, people would feel drawn to it.

Here's a provocative one: Health. This may seem counterintuitive, given the conventional wisdom that being fat will kill you in about twelve minutes, but fatness up to a point may provide a health benefit in some or most people. In my ever-vigilant battle to promote fat acceptance in society, I have learned not only that popular opinion greatly overstates or fabricates the health risks of fat, but completely ignores the health benefits or potential health benefits. I won't get into this one, because frankly I don't expect anyone to believe me unless I print a bibliography, and it's too late in the day for that. Still, for what it's worth, I consider it a good reason.

Naturally, these reasons are not simultaneously applicable to everyone all the time, but they do not need to be universally applicable in order to be “good” reasons. They simply need to be well-grounded in reasons of the betterment or exploration of, or indulgence in, the human condition—which I think I have shown. Also, they need to be utilizable without causing undue collateral harm to other individuals or to society at large. We could make hay about that the “harm” angle—I've had that argument countless times. People who think they are very clever come up with claims such as “obesity makes you sick and that drains the economy,” or “obese people weigh more and move under their own power less, increasing petrol consumption,” but, in every case I have confronted, it turns out that the claim is variously unsubstantiated, oversimplified, or plainly wrong, leaving the antagonist with far weaker claims that easily fall within the realm of creature comforts or self-determination. Meanwhile, there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the good reasons for being fat which I mentioned above, and others that I did not, constitute strong arguments in their own rights in favor of individuals embracing fatness in themselves and/or others at their discretion.

Here is a final point that I know you will be able to appreciate, RD: When a society gets hung up on something, people tend to vastly exaggerate the subject and all its elements, usually with a specific direction of bias (or directions, in the plural, when there are factions involved). I think society is outright neurotic when it comes to body fat, far in excess of what a reasonable discourse would invite. The fact that somebody could waltz into this thread and say that they don't care for fat people—a patently ridiculous and hurtful statement, yet offered almost blithely and with utter obliviousness as to its deleteriousness—or that somebody else could make a defense of fatness followed by the completely unnecessary disclaimer that they themselves are not fat—are two more pieces of evidence in a long-overflowed and drowned cup that we spend far more time and energy inflating this subject in our minds and in our public discourse, well out of proportion and beyond all sense.

V_Translanka

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1209 on: January 16, 2009, 09:04:49 am »
Most of those reasons don't sound like they're specific for fatness...some even seem a bit forced...but w/e...Just stay within your BMI, don't sweat on me & try to keep your tears out of your food and I think we can all get along. :lol:

placidchap

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1210 on: January 16, 2009, 09:05:25 am »
I may be a bigot for one reason or another but who isn’t?  You certainly are towards people that you consider intellectually lesser than yourself or at least that is the impression I have gotten from you after reading a handful of your posts.  

Fat and obese may be used interchangeably, but what one defines as “fat” or “obese” differs greatly.  Judging by your …thoughtful response, you consider a fat person to be anyone that is above their “suggested” weight for their height.  I consider a fat person to be one who could find themselves on “The Biggest Loser”.  I consider people who are up to a “moderate” level above their “suggested” weight to be healthy, not fat.  Remember that as you read the rest of this post.  I believe this is the range you are referring to when you mention wellbeing, sex, aesthetics, health, etc.  I do not believe these people are fat or should be considered fat, as you do.  I think people in that range are living in optimum conditions for the potential of good health and should be labelled “healthy” in that respect.  But even you say “up to a point”.  People who are past that “point” and people who strive to be a twig are negatively affecting themselves and those around them.   Children with fat parents are more likely to be fat.  People who are friends with “thin” people may want to fit in and be “thin” (That normally applies to females).  Neither of these situations are desirable as they have both individual and residual negative psychological and physical effects.

Fat people and thin people should have negative connotations to them to help deter that lifestyle.  What needs to change is the definition of what is considered fat and thin.  Fat should describe people such as those on “The Biggest Loser” and thin would describe those who starve themselves to lose weight, such as those who are “Pro-Ana” or bulimic.  Those who are not fat or thin are simply healthy, at least in respect to weight.  The term “healthy” certainly does not and will not have a negative connotation.

V_Translanka

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1211 on: January 16, 2009, 10:32:21 am »
What a strange subject for this thread to go off on...

HyperNerd

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1212 on: January 16, 2009, 10:51:57 am »
...
Anyways, I have no religion anymore after realizing how religion was made for it's time- for example, the Jewish Kosher was introduced at the time as people were dieing making certain foods together. Some smart people wrote a book saying " It's against our faith, don't do it." As people apparetly care more about faith than health, everyone stopped. I myself was Jewish, Buddist and at one point Greek until I realized this. Now I'm waiting for something I NEED to jump on the Religion bandwagon. Religion doesn't control my life, I control my religion.

justin3009

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1213 on: January 16, 2009, 10:55:01 am »
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I wish I could be fatter. I'm so skinny I could floss my teeth with my waistline.
- Yea, I believe I'm pretty close to that as well :|

5'8 104 lbls

placidchap

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1214 on: January 16, 2009, 10:56:22 am »
"Greek" isn't a religion...