Author Topic: Insane Theory #99  (Read 2730 times)

Altimadark

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Insane Theory #99
« on: May 31, 2007, 02:59:31 am »
Having just read through the Lavos article and the notes on the Time Devourer, a thought came to me, and I felt like sharing it.  Yea, I just joined the boards to share a random idea I had.  Go me.  I don't even know if this is original, as I've only read the article and didn't take a lot of time checking this on the boards.  Anyway...

As I'm sure most of you are aware, there's some debate as to whether Lavos purposely made/evolved into the Time Devourer, and if so, why it it would even do so if the Time Devourer's purpose was so contradictory to Lavos's plans.  The idea I had was that the Time Devourer was not made to consume all of time and space, but rather just the timespace composing the planet it landed on and was eventually defeated by.

Consider, for a moment, an insect with an incredibly bitter taste (look up the Battus or Machaca for examples), perhaps even containing a poison deadly to other creatures.  If some predator tries to eat it, it'll probably spit the thing back out (or, using the poison example, die), thereafter avoiding the bugs.  The species as a whole thrives with the mere sacrifice of a few unlucky members.  The Time Devourer may serve a similar purpose, albeit on a much larger scale -- an entire planet, no less.  Destroy Lavos, and you risk having your planet's entire history poisoned and killed.  Imagine such a result had Serge and company failed; Lavos's decent in prehistoric times may have well just eradicated the planet, thus insuring nothing arises there that may jeopardize the existence of its species throughout the universe.

The most obvious refute I though of was the fact that the game actually states the Time Devourer would end up "destroying all of existence," later stating that the remaining sane half of Schala took actions to "save the universe."  I'm wondering if this was misspoken or downright overstated, as one could consider their own planet "all of existence/the universe" to a point, or if the Time Devourer would, by its nature, be limited to consuming/destroying the planet it inhabited regardless of its desires , or a handful of other things, but at this point, I'd just be splitting hairs.

Anyhow, I'd love to hear some thoughts on this theory, even if it is just my first post.  Thanks for reading though.

Kyronea

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2007, 03:16:06 am »
First, allow me to congratulate you on a wonderful first post. I've seen many first posts on many forums across the internet, and yours is one of the better ones.

Second, don't feel bad about joining just to share a theory. I did that myself...only me being me, I put it in the wrong section where it still sits.

Anyway, about your theory...apart from the obvious refutation, it has a definitive air of reasonability about it...the Time Devourer acts as a defense mechanism for the Lavosian species.

Except...except the thing is, the Time Devourer was made from both Lavos and Schala. Lavos alone could not have been the Time Devourer.

Unless...well, we all know that Schala was placed in the Darkness Beyond Time during the New Ocean Palace Incident...and many have speculated that Schala was sent there intentionally...it's a thought, certainly. Of course, there is the fact that in the original Lavos timeline Lavos never placed Schala there, but then in that same timeline he did not have a threat to his existance. Only when Crono and friends showed up did he start taking measures to protect himself--I postulated the Black Omen was a similiar protective measure.

Still...I'm not sure it fully holds water. It looks as if your idea does at first glance--again apart from the obvious refutation--but...I don't know. I think Chrono'99 and Zeality ought to look it over. They know more than I do, having debated Chronoverse related stuff for years as opposed to my mere few months.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 03:19:51 am by Kyronea »

Altimadark

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2007, 12:59:18 am »
I'd be glad to hear from them.  Still thinking of how to word my take on the arbiter-fusion issue.

Chrono'99

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2007, 05:50:29 pm »
Welcome! I think your theory is definitely interesting. Sure, the game states that the Time Devourer will consume all time-space, but who stated this actually?

Belthasar, the scary megalomaniac dude who devised the utterly and unnecessarily complex Project Kid; who had fun rewriting the entire timeline once or twice and propulsed his fellow scientists into a war with interdimensional lizardmen; who acted as a secret God for thousands of people and their own Goddess; and who lied to Serge several times throughout the game... all this instead of doing simple like calling Crono or Magus to let them do the time warp again.

Belthasar's plan was so complex and unintuitive, and of dubious morality, that one could wonder why he did all that. He risked the fate of the entire time-space in doing these complicated stuff, especially if we consider that if Serge had lost, the Time Devourer would have maturated even more quickly, according to the Ultimania Guide.

One of the theory is that he simply has a God complex and wanted do something aesthetic just for the beauty of it... But another possibility could be that he simply exaggerated the Time Devourer's menace. That's where your theory could come in. Perhaps the Time Devourer wouldn't have destroyed the entire time-space but "just" the planet. Belthasar lied several times to Serge in the game. He claims at the beginning that he doesn't know why the dimension split in two. He could have lied about the Time Devourer too... Well, I guess Belthasar would still be megalomaniac in that case, but in a lesser extent. He would have risked the planet's life instead of the whole universe. Who knows, maybe he even had a spaceship to escape to safety in case Serge failed to accomplish his mission...

Well, I guess I added even more speculation in this explanation than there was in your theory, but overall, it's just to say that your theory can hold water. It definitely can't be taken as canon, but it's not totally baseless or illogical either. It's somewhere out there in the realm of possibilities. A possibility that would be very interesting to explore in a game project or short story. I mean, Belthasar's Project Kid = why, just why??
« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 05:53:25 pm by Chrono'99 »

Kyronea

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2007, 05:59:47 pm »
One problem, Chrono'99. You forget that the Chrono Cross was necessary to separate Schala from Lavos. Without it, Serge/Magus/Whoever would have simply ended up killing both, and I can tell you that Magus at the least would not have accepted that at all, nor would Belthesar or Chrono or anyone else.

Still, it begs the question: why not just invent a device that does the same thing? Why create an entire universe? It could be, again, as you say, his megolomania, as he becomes quite the disturbing person. We can't say for absolute certain how the Chrono Cross worked as it never went into such detail. It could be that he had such a device on hand, or simply would have needed a lot more time to invent such a device. It's a pity we never saw anything like this, even in passing, as something mentioned after Serge had gone through all of his experiences and was heading to confront LavoSchala...it would have been a nice character statement about how crazy Belthesar is.

It makes one wonder what he was like in Zeal before he was transported to the future. Was he the same megalomaniacal person? It seems unlikely, given that he is the Guru of Reason...but then we have no idea when he was appointed to the position. For all we know he wasn't appointed until after Queen Zeal started to lose her mind.

In any case, all of that was  speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt as such.

DMagusEdwards

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2007, 11:17:28 am »
The Time Devourer-Lavos defense thing makes a lot of sense.

And as for Belthasar the mad scientist, we know he was sent to the future (the Lavos Timeline), so it may be future shock he must be suffering. Similar to how pirates acted after they were marooned. Come to think of it, did anyone see that movie by Tom Hanks about the guy marooned on the island with the volleyball Wilson? (Forgot the damn title....) The volleyball seems to be talking to Hanks and that reminds me of Belth' and the one Nu. Belthasar must have realized that his freinds (probably Gaspar and Melchior) may have passed away, and his family must be deceased as well. This can drive you stark-crazy mad, and he was feeling the effects. Remember what the specks said before you got Epoch? He was programming the Nu because he didnt know how much longer he would have lasted.

Just some insight into Belthasar's sanity and probable causes of said crazyness.

Oh, and welcome Altimadark.

jihnsius

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2007, 11:28:07 pm »
The concept of the Time Devourer only devouring part of time and "the entire universe" could be scaled down to mean pretty much what's stated: The Time Devourer will destroy the entire known universe, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he'd destroy other dimensions, or other verses assuming there's a multiverse.

alpha

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2007, 03:58:48 pm »
YAY My thoughts again ((you know you love them)) Im willing to believe that the guru of reason was never entirely sane.. the man was a scientific genius beyond the scope of melchoir or gaspar.. and far beyond the scope of lucca.. So he wa s alittle nuts... then he loses everything. No matter what timeline you put him in.. he still loses everything and goes completly bonkers. I think that withing the CC timeline he has regained some of his sanity.

The chrono cross is an absolute requirement.. no machine would be able to mimic its conenction with the planet. I see that connection as what is able to seperate schala from lavos. BEcasue the planet has loads more energy than even The antiproton drive can create.

but say for a moment it wasnt required.. Blathasar is a genius.. genuis tends to think in very complicated matters. so hi sbrain thinks of this brilliantly complicated method to do something.. he knows its gonna work so doesnt even bother to think of simpler ones.

and as far as the time devourer. I think it would only devour its particular timeline. so that "Universe" but balthazar would be fully capable of using the neo epoch and escaping destruction. even having the qbility to go and pick up his old buddies on the way out.

tjbk_tjb

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2007, 02:16:45 pm »
But wouldn't destroying the entire spacetime of the Universe be bad for other Lavoids? Which is counter to the idea that it is a mechanism that it's a sacrifice of the few Lavoids for the benefit of all other Lavoids.

DMagusEdwards

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2007, 03:42:14 pm »
The theory had JUST stated that if Lavos (our Lavos, not some other lavoid) was sentinent, he would only eat a portion of space-time (ie, everyone and everything in Chronoland), not all of it. So all the little lavoids would be running around happily chomping on alien heads.

alpha

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2007, 08:51:17 pm »
the time devourer is not the natural evolution of a lavoid its what happens when interference caused someone with the raw magical ability as schala had fused iwth a lavoid.. I doubt it cares about the rest of its species

Altimadark

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2007, 11:57:19 pm »
Alpha, with all due respect, where's the support on your theory?

DMagusEdwards

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2007, 02:18:24 pm »
I think he invisions TD as some sort of vigilante Lavos....

alpha

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2007, 02:24:22 pm »
lets see.. its said that lavos species eats a planet then moves on..... schala was an anomoly that changed the process... just as teh the frozen flame was an anomly that changed the human evolutionary process

Altimadark

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Re: Insane Theory #99
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2007, 03:43:22 pm »
An anomaly in respect to what?  Certainly in respect to humans, but who's to say such a splinter isn't natural for a Lavoid?  Why just wait around for some good DNA to pop up when you can use a bit of what you already have to speed things up?

EDIT: With all due respect, I think the biggest issue I have with this theory is that it doesn't work by itself.  In the normal Lavos timeline, one could easily assume Schala "interfered" with Lavos, and that didn't seem to do anything to change the Lavoid life cycle.  Lavos still destroyed civilization and reproduced spawn, as is seemingly normal.  It's not until Crono & Co get involved and destroy Lavos that the Time Devourer comes into existance (if one could call it that).  If anything is an anomaly with respect to Lavos, it appears less likely to be Schala and more likely to be Crono & Co.

In any event, I've taken some more time to consider the entire "defensive devourer" theory, and I'm starting to put together a more comprehensive theory.  If anybody has any other refutes to it, please share them so I can look them over.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 06:56:43 pm by Altimadark »