Author Topic: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?  (Read 14703 times)

Chickenlump

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3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« on: December 10, 2006, 11:31:35 am »
I found this topic over at Emutalk, and thought it would be neat if we could apply it to Crono Cross, to extract and have a closer look at it's 3D models of characters and enemies and who knows what else.

http://www.emutalk.net/general-gc-emulation-discussion/37091-universal-model-map-ripper.html

There are other programs like this as well, for OpenGL.

It would make a nice addition to the downloads section if we were able to extract and save the models and texture mappings for people to import into 3D programs for modeling. It would take a bit of time to do this though, if it works, then it could be made a bit easier to get the models through codes that load up characters or monsters instead of playing through the game to capture them all.

ZeaLitY

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2006, 03:29:23 pm »
Oh yeah, definitely. This is one of the holy grails of the encyclopedia along with translations and Chrono Cross locations. My computer sucks, so I'll ask on that thread if someone can try Chrono Cross.

justin3009

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2006, 05:03:45 pm »
I'll try it out.

>___>  Keep getting "Unable to Create Process"
Edit Edit:  I realize, I don't have directx 9 applications anywhere >_>
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 05:17:12 pm by justin3009 »

Chickenlump

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2006, 07:42:31 pm »
There are other programs that do pretty much the same thing. I followed a couple of the links at the 3D Ripper DX site. I wonder which Epsxe plugin is DX9 based? I know there are Open GL plugins for it, so one of the OpenGL alternative ones might work. We just need to find the proper combination of emulator and plugins.

http://glintercept.nutty.org/index.html OGL alternative
http://denull.ucoz.ru/load/1-1-0-40 Another 3D ripper of DX9 applications.
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html Some tools and plugins to view/edit DDS texture files (some of these rippers save the textures as this file-type).

deniz2099

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2006, 11:42:35 am »
Wow, I will rip some models, and with those models, I will make out sprites for RMXP.

Dirtie

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 04:09:21 am »
I might give it a go when I can get a hold of 3DS max.

ZeaLitY

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2007, 01:48:36 am »
Buuuuuuuuuuump.

jono

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2007, 08:40:35 pm »
Quite a while ago I tried to capture geometry from chrono cross which was run on epsxe. Unfortunatly I could never quite get the opengl capturing program to successfully capture anything from any psx game ran with epsxe, my own simple tests and other programs seemed to work fine though. I'd be very interested to see if anyone has managed to successfully capture a model from a psx game.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 09:39:30 pm by jono »

FaustWolf

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 09:35:31 pm »
I've tried 3D Ripper DX on other PlayStation games without success. I believe it only works with the Gamecube emulator "Dolphin" from what people are saying on the message boards on the 3D Ripper DX site, even though epsxe is a DX9 application. So that option is probably out.

I wonder if ripping the models directly from the game CD could be done? Does anyone know any details *at all* about the structure of the archives Chrono Cross files are stored in? I'll do some basic investigation when I get a chance and see if I can't get any help from the xentax community, which specializes in extracting files from game archives. Though we'd still have the difficulty of finding a suitable viewer/editor for the models either way.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 09:42:35 pm by FaustWolf »

jono

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2007, 09:41:23 pm »
I have just managed to rip flat untextured models from epsxe using ogle and glintercept.

I thought the flatness was strange but I found some info that explains it. Epsxe only uses opengl to render the already projected polygons, this means that opengl only ever recieves sets of triangles that are already projected onto the view plane. It therefore isn't possible to capture models from epsxe that arn't flat on a plane. A bit unfortunate. Perhaps another emulator could be used, if there is any others that support chrono cross.

FaustWolf

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 01:06:08 pm »
Now that we know how to rip a clean iso from Chrono Cross and get textures, does anyone know if there's a program like PSicture that can scan a file and detect model data? Would that even be possible?

I strongly urge anyone interested in Chrono Cross models to check out the xentax forums (http://forum.xentax.com/) and take a gander at what those people have accomplished as far as ripping game resources. Unfortunately though, most of their accomplishments have been for PC games, which historically store graphics in a manner that makes them far more accessible than the graphics in console CDs. Their wiki states that someone developed a script for getting at Xenosaga: Episode I files, but I haven't had any success with that and haven't had the interest to pursue the matter any further.

Their Guide to Exploring File Formats (at the bottom right of http://multiex.xentax.com/) might prove useful. Honestly I haven't looked at it in-depth yet and I don't even know if it's applicable to the .iso file that can be ripped from the Chrono Cross CD. Mr. Mouse's MultiEx Commander program isn't all that useful for console games just yet, for the reason stated above, and the free version has very limited functionality.

If none of this stuff is applicable, the Chrono Community will have to slog through the emulator-rip method that Jono and Chickenlump have been exploring. That'll be a bit more work in the long run, but hopefully something will work out.

Mayhap the era of Chrono Cross hacks lurks nigh?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 01:10:56 pm by FaustWolf »

jono

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 09:32:19 pm »
I don't think we'll ever be able to rip them from epsxe, it's impossible to get any depth data for the model :( Disappointing. I'm not going to continue trying.

Also directly ripping from the disk poses a couple of problems, first up we don't know what format the models are actually stored in. If it's the format same as final fantasy vii then I guess we could work something out.......if we could get to them. This is the second problem, after the first generation or so, developers started compressing and bunching together files on the disc for two reasons. To protect their resources from those who would rip them and also to save space on the disc, as the psx became older the developers continued to improve their methods.

I would have a go at writing a program to attempt this but I simply don't know enough about it. I've just started reading and I can see why no one else has yet attempted to extract this sort of thing from square's games (with the exception of ffvii).

I think the best way would be to take reference shots and attempt to model over the top of the images (very time consuming and probably not perfectly accurate). If you could get enough interested modelers I guess it wouldn't be so bad, but this in itself would be a problem.

Also animation would have to be done by hand, but I guess this would be the case if we used the glcapture/epsxe way as well.

It doesn't look too bright at the moment, it's just so frustrating because they're right there on that disc and we just can't get 'em.

FaustWolf

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2007, 01:21:30 am »
Does anyone have 3DS Max or Lightwave, or a modeling program that can view any of the following filetypes?
3DR
DDS
MTL
OBJ

I dumped some stuff using 3D Ripper DX and psxfin, first time I've used it on Chrono Cross. It pulled 3MB of something, but what, I wonder? The stuff I pulled is attached.

No rush, it's most likely nothing. It's just that I can't view it myself, and I'm curious to see if anything even remotely useful is in here. It'll probably be sporadic flat textures like Jono's been talking about above.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 08:42:32 pm by FaustWolf »

dankun

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2007, 01:39:47 am »
I can view the .dds files only.
It's not junk, they are pictures from the opening sequence; you know, the squaresoft title swirling in the ripple of water and the rest are from the Serge character naming screen and the font base image that is used in battle, I think.

I can view them using Nero PhotoSnap viewer, by the way.

FaustWolf

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Re: 3D Crono Cross model extraction?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2007, 03:14:41 pm »
Okay, this is going to be all disjointed but bear with me.

First, thanks a million for that, Dankun. The DDS are 2D graphics files then. I'll see if I can view them myself when I get a chance.

It's really weird how the program ripped title screen and naming screen stuff, because I did the rip right when I got into the intro dungeon. I suppose this tells us that psxfin stores stuff in memory that occurred minutes beforehand, and that 3D Ripper DX can access that history - but it's supposed to rip what's onscreen at the moment. *Is confuzzled*

Any takers on the other files in the rar attached above? Most of the files with identical extensions will probably be duplicates because I hit the rip key multiple times to see if I could get frame-by-frame model movements if I was lucky.

And as a side-note, does anybody know which PSX emulators are DirectX and which are OpenGL programs? Maybe we could get a list of what doesn't work going, so we can quickly see which options have been explored and not explored.

Jono, do you happen to remember which OpenGL plugin you were using with ePSXe when you attempted to model capture? I wonder if it might make a difference.

I believe some of the pages Chickenlump referred to at the top may be in Russian. Hey -- isn't Den Schwarz Russian? The user who submitted snippets of his Chrono Trigger novel in the Dream Splash! forum? Hmm...

And this is going to sound totally stupid, but is it possible to convert an iso such that it would play in a different system's emulator? For example, I've read that people can convert PSX iso files into eboot files to play Playstation games on the PSP. The reason why I'm asking is that I know 3D Ripper DX works with the Gamecube emulator "Dolphin," and it would be sweet if Chrono Cross could be somehow played by that emulator. Haha. Please be gentle in your responses to this one. :lol:

Must get back to work. Nothing keeps you from studying the Keynesian cross like Chrono Cross.

EDIT: Added another attachment to my post above. This is to check for consistency in 3D Ripper DX's ripping process.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 08:43:29 pm by FaustWolf »