Author Topic: Cause of the Dimensional Split  (Read 3617 times)

SolidSnake_8608

  • Porrean (+50)
  • *
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2007, 11:28:55 am »
Maybe the split had already happened, as more than one dimension was already in existence to begin with. No split ever occured, just one reality where Serge was saved and one where he wasn't. Quantum Physics theory of Quantum Sucide says that one man can never percieve his own death, because his conscience will always shift realities to the one where by some miracle he survived. Of course, quantum theory also says that every outcome of every chance is played out in one reality or another, and a good example of this is the Reptites surviving in one dimension, or possibly and probably more than one. The dimensions we see in the game are so mangled by FATE, Lavos, and the Frozen Flame that things seem to cross dimensions due to space time being all screwy. Essentially, there never was a split per se, only one different reality were Serge died. The cause of the split we see in the game was already in existence, in fact, there isn't a cause for a split at all, because it never really happened, Home World is just a reality in which Serge's conscience mind resides after his body in another world is killed. Therefore, going back in time in Home world would place you in Home World's history, as every reality has it's own history. This could also mean that the day of lavos was played out in one reality, the ruined world of 2300 AD could still exist, in one reality or another. And the dead sea is a culmination of Chronopolis' time crash and the space time being jacked up thanks to it being thrown back in time. Events that would change what Chronopolis was in 2400 are all played out inside of the dead sea. Still don't quite have a good theory for that one...let me know what you think Zeality.

Mr. Molecule

  • Porrean (+50)
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2007, 11:20:30 am »
Okay, so now this has changed an article, I guess. Also created an "official" Cross plot hole.

The problem is, I just don't think the ghost's statements are conclusive enough to counteract the entirety of everything else said in the entire game (except for Lucca-ghost's highly ambiguous speech.) There are lotsa things wrong with Chronopolis guy's speech.

1. Are you still assuming that the first bit, with the fisherman & poet, implies prior control of two dimensions? That's clearly incorrect. Read my prior post--both instructions only went to those in Another World. The statement is just emphasizing how FATE can control one world & not the other, & in that way pointing out how these changes can, in fact, be related only to Serge not dying. Or, if you want to assume that the ghost DOES mean to imply prior control and just messes up, well, that's just further proof that this sequence is highly flawed.

2. Why would the researchers call Home World "World 01" if it's the world they're NOT in, and is the world typically assumed to be the offshoot? I proposed that Another World is World 00. I guess that's stretching. Still, calling the offshoot World 01 is pretty strange. Another reason this bit is confusing.

3. We're really basing this on two words. "Ever since." That's... that's not alot of words.

I know the Cross translation is said to be a lot less confusing than even the original Japanese game, but I'm thinking maybe a re-translation of this bit might clear some things up. To me it seems like translation that didn't quiiiiiite make it--understandable, the concepts here are pretty complex.

And as for Chronopolis being "built" to guard two dimensions--absurd, I say. For one, that would imply that the split occured before the researchers left chronopolis & populated El Nido. I guess that's one possible theory, but it seems to me the split had to have occurred AFTER chronopolis went back in time--otherwise, how would they be aware of the other dimension? Also, this idea hinges on one extra screen being set up, to mmonitor "World 01." Look, Chronopolis has all manner of robots wandering around, readyto whoop your ass. It's protected by the 3 fates. *I* can manage to hook a monitor up to a computer, if I'm given ten years to do so; I sure they could accomplish that too. Chronopolis obviously has the facilities need to keep itself running for thousands of years, after all. One computer monitor would be nothing to them. It's be more egregrious if they DIDN'T have a second monitor.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10593
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2007, 02:58:58 pm »
Well, that World 01 thing is pretty convincing...

It's just the wording. Now's the time I'd ask someone to visit that part of game in Japanese, but fat chance we'll ever get results with that...

Mr. Molecule

  • Porrean (+50)
  • *
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2007, 03:13:51 pm »
Reveiwing the "Salt for the Dead Sea" article, I've come across some evidence backing up the 1010 split.

The fact that both the researchers veiwing Home, and the residents of Home themselves, note the "formation" of the dead sea in 1010 is evidence that that was when the split occurred. A major result of the split is that in one dimension, the actions of ther Heroes of Time were nullified. If the split occurred earlier, it would still lead in Home World to the salvation of Serge and the damnation of the world. In that case, the Sea of Eden should have changed to the dead sea when the change occurred.

Theoretically, the changing of the future should have lead to the Dead Sea being present throught the history of Home since the Time Crash. For more analysis on why this isn't so see my post in this thread. It's... long and complicated. But necessary for this discussion.

rushingwind

  • Guru of Life Emeritus
  • Squaretable Knight (+400)
  • *
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2007, 05:19:33 am »
My small contribution to this thread is just to point out a bit of dialouge that Serge/Lynx has with his mother, just after he has been transformed into Lynx:

Quote
Marge: That night, your father, Wazuki, and his friend Miguel set out to sea, despite
a storm... It was an emergency... They were swallowed by the high waves and lost
consciousness. When they came to, they found themselves inside the Dead Sea... A
place where no living creature dares enter.  I don't know what happened, but that
incident changed your father. And your father's friend, Miguel... That was Leena's
father. He never returned... Back then, that place wasn't called the Dead Sea...
Yes, I believe they called it "Sea of Eden" ...
That was 14 years ago.

It would seem to suggest that a split happened in recent history, recent enough that the Dead Sea was not always there (because Home World Marge clearly remembers it being the Sea of Eden before).  Therefore, Home World had to be created in the last twenty years (otherwise, how would anyone know of the Sea of Eden in Home World?  It never existed until Serge came along).

Just my humble contribution that may or may not have any weight...  *slinks back into the lurker's corner*

jihnsius

  • Porrean (+50)
  • *
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2007, 09:24:33 am »
Reveiwing the "Salt for the Dead Sea" article, I've come across some evidence backing up the 1010 split.

The fact that both the researchers veiwing Home, and the residents of Home themselves, note the "formation" of the dead sea in 1010 is evidence that that was when the split occurred. A major result of the split is that in one dimension, the actions of ther Heroes of Time were nullified. If the split occurred earlier, it would still lead in Home World to the salvation of Serge and the damnation of the world. In that case, the Sea of Eden should have changed to the dead sea when the change occurred.

Theoretically, the changing of the future should have lead to the Dead Sea being present throught the history of Home since the Time Crash.

I still don't see this as solid evidence contrary to the original idea, that the dimensions very well may have split in 12,000BC. Just because the Dead Sea doesn't form until the so-called 'dimensional split' doesn't mean that the split had to have occured at that time, it just means that that's when there was an actual physical difference between the two dimensions. Sure, the idea is a little farfetched and it pretty much comes down to semantics, but the probability is still there. Or perhaps it could be thought of as that it's actually the Entity that causes the Dead Sea to form, having 'knowledge' that this particular dimension is the one that will bring about the end of time if events don't change. If not for an omniscient being such as this, it'd be impossible for the Dead Sea to form, given that the dimensions would be /exactly/ the same up until Serge cries, sparking Schala to affect one demension and not the other.

inode

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2007, 09:43:26 pm »
"The world became divided into two" line may be referring to the presence of Dinopolis in the dimension.  When Dinopolis was pulled from its timeline into this timeline, didn't the world become divided into two?  Let me explain.  The world of the Dragonians with their Dragon God and Dinopolis and the world of the humans with their god FATE and Chronopolis clashed at 10,000 BC in the Sea of Eden; the two different worlds both ended up in the same place at the same time.  Two worlds; one dimension.  If this is how it is to be interpreted, then Lucca is explaining that Chronopolis and Dinopolis were both pulled back to 10.000 BC at the same time Schala heard Serge's cries for help echo through time. 

jihnsius

  • Porrean (+50)
  • *
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2007, 12:02:39 pm »
"The world became divided into two" line may be referring to the presence of Dinopolis in the dimension.  When Dinopolis was pulled from its timeline into this timeline, didn't the world become divided into two?  Let me explain.  The world of the Dragonians with their Dragon God and Dinopolis and the world of the humans with their god FATE and Chronopolis clashed at 10,000 BC in the Sea of Eden; the two different worlds both ended up in the same place at the same time.  Two worlds; one dimension.  If this is how it is to be interpreted, then Lucca is explaining that Chronopolis and Dinopolis were both pulled back to 10.000 BC at the same time Schala heard Serge's cries for help echo through time. 

I'd think that implies the opposite: Two dimensions, one world. The outcome of two seperate dimensions (Dinopolis and Chronopolis) were brought together into one dimension (one world.) It was the same world, just different timelines. Again, semantics are at heart here for determining what's right.

inode

  • Iokan (+1)
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Cause of the Dimensional Split
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2007, 06:41:09 pm »
Hmmm...  Let me try refocusing my thoughts.  There are two competing forces in the world each trying to overcome the other: the humans and the dragonians.  Before 10,000 BC there was only one force and no competition, or rather the other force was eliminated in 65M BC.  Now, because Chronopolis and Dinopolis appear in the same dimension, that competition exists in the world once again.  The world is divided into two equal but opposite forces driven along those ends: the natural (dragonians) vs. the artificial (humans).  I assume that this is what Lucca means when she says that the world became divided into two.  She is referring to the competitive struggle between the two forces in the world that didn't exist before; not to the dimensional split.