Author Topic: An idea for names...  (Read 360 times)

Daniel Krispin

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An idea for names...
« on: November 29, 2006, 03:29:17 am »
Okay, I'm so behind on what the plot entails, I don't really know what it's even about, so I don't know if this is possible, but I just had an idea. CC uses the names of the three Fates (Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos) in a battle, right? Well, I was thinking, might it be possible for some battle to fight something like the three Furies? They don't need to be called that, but just three enemies, and their names could be - as the three Furies, which few people really know: Tisiphone, Megaira, and Allecto. Like I said, I don't know if you can fit it in somehow, but it would sure fit well in the whole CT/CC thing, I think. Maybe guardians near the end? Would it be possible to incorporate this?

I like to refer to them as Dark Tisiphone, and Fierce Megaira, though I don't know where I get that from. Tisiphone is the guard of Tartaros in the Aineid, and in the same work it is Allecto who, at the bidding of Juno, baits the hero Turnus to go to war against Aineias. In the Thebaid, it is Tisiphone and Megaira who drive the brothers Polyneicies and Eteokles to fight and kill each other.

Anyway, they could introduce themselves as 'the three furious sisters, daughters of blood and night'. I'm not sure exactly how you're setting things up, but I figure there's a confrontation with King Zeal, correct? These three could maybe be guards outside that need to be fought - sort of pre-bosses. They could speak violent grandeose words. Sort of 'By the stygian marsh we, the three furious sisters, daughters of blood and night, command you halt!'
Okay, here's an idea. That bit could be said from off-screen. Then they could file in one by one, sort of like a chorus in a tragedy, each speaking in turn their thing. So, basically:

(Off screen)
'By the Stygian marsh we, the three furious sisters, daughters of blood and night, command you halt!'
(Allecto enters)
'I, venomous Allecto, will drive you to madness.'
(Megaira enters)
'I, fierce Megaira, will rend you to carrion.'
(Tisiphone enters)
'And I, dark Tisiphone, will prison you in hell.'
(Then all together)
'We are they who pursue men; we who drink their blood; we who never relent the hunt. Where is our prey? It is you whom we desire for our feast!'

And maybe as an extra bonus, if Janus is with them, they can address him directly, saying:
'Prince, your term of life is long overdue. We come to bear you to judgement.'
To which, and heck, I love this Greek term, he could say:
'To the crows with you!' (which is Greek idiom for 'go to hell.')

Or, perhaps, they say a different thing depending who is in the lead. That would be Janus'.
To Janus: 'Prince, your term of life is long overdue. We come to bear you to judgement.'
                        Reply: To the crows with you!
To Marle: 'Dear thing, we will not spare your blood - to us it is very sweet.'
                        Reply: Yeah? Well...Come and take it!
To Crono: 'The cries of those whom you have killed echo from hell; soon you will be amongst them.'
                        Reply: *Draws sword*
To Ayla: 'Ancient one, we were already old when you were not; we who are born of heaven's blood, of violence in the morning age, are stronger than you.
                        Reply: You ugly. Ayla not scared. Ayla fight. Ayla win!
To Lucca: 'Look to the skies, girl, and see our father; to the stars, and see our birth from the fallen king. Like the Infamous Immortal, ours is a heavenly breeding.'
                        Lucca: Heh, bring it on! I suppose you've never heard of Lucca the Great?
To Robo: 'Man of Bronze, immortal skin will not save you; your soul is ours.'
                        Robo: Computing... analysis: you will not win. I am not afraid.
To Glenn: 'Strong fighter, even in death you shall not stand by Lethe - to our abodes beside vast Tartaros we will haul you.'
                        Glenn: More damned threats. You're all just lackeys. Come on! These guys have my back.

Whatchya think? You could probably even use a sort of Naga-ette sprite if you've not used it elsewise. Allecto could cast status ailments; Megaira be a physical fighter; and Tisiphone maybe able to freeze all abilities (a la the rocks on Mount Woe.) Aww, come on, isn't this just too cool to pass up? Isn't it? I figured, they can use the term 'Infamous Immortal' for Lavos, which Lucca does in Cross. Please? I mean, it's not impossible to do, and I'm sure it'd be easy enough to fit in. There'd be no problem with plot continuity - they're guards, like Dalton's Golems. Nothing else beyond this is needed. By the way, the entry of these furies, as in Aeschylus' Libation Bearers, should be hearalded by off-key music. If there's a way of making a certain song disjointed, of dimming the brightness of the screen a bit, having a wind sound play, or just mingling a whole bunch of weird fighting and animal screaming sounds before they start speaking, it'd be perfect. As for sprites, really if you can pallette swap a Naga-Ette a few ways - I don't know if you can - that might be perfect. The fighting music... nothing intense. Maybe that sad theme, At the Bottom of Night.

Okay, this is my Classical bent showing. But I honestly think it can work, particularly considering the fact that CC follows it. By the way... I'm still a bit frightened giving any suggestions. What happens if, when this is released, SE decides to take their heavy hammer up against us? I don't exactly feel comfortable being associated with that. I mean, it's the reason I don't help more than... this.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 05:06:52 am by Daniel Krispin »

ZeaLitY

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Re: An idea for names...
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 02:05:08 pm »
I believe the discord and creepy quality of the DBT allows for something utterly unnerving like this. I'd put them a little towards the middle since I think we'll have two battles at the end.

Simple question: what tileset should they apppear in? The DBT is a mix of every era and location available to us. Which would work best?

Chrono'99

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Re: An idea for names...
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 04:22:24 pm »
...But wouldn't this distract a bit from the "non-personal" atmosphere of the DBT? The place is supposed to belong to no one, and be creepily devoid of any intelligent life besides strange apparitions and weird monsters. I totally picture the ghosts of the Ruined Future guys, the Reptites, Renault, Luther, and Roget appearing there for example (just to haunt the party, not fight them), but not "guards" posted by Zeal as if the place were a simple fortress that needs to be protected.

In some ways, I could imagine these Furies in the Entity dungeon, but overall not really since that would make the Entity appear too angry and opposed to humans, while it's not meant to.

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Re: An idea for names...
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 04:28:23 pm »
Hm...perhaps it could fit in a side quest. DK's in the process of making some new names, so I guess we can review the sidequests to see if there's an open spot.

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Re: An idea for names...
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 09:29:26 pm »
What's killing me here is that this idea perhaps is neater than our previous "Mystic beast" ultimate idea. But...we'd probably have to invent something for their existence, too, if we were to "replace" Khrusaor or somehow work them in. Idea:

Belthasar reports that his agents have been watching a certain cave in 11998 B.C. where King Zeal was spotted long ago. He apparently was using it as a base of operations, but seems to have abandoned it. The reason is simple -- King Zeal accidentally brought about an abomanitable, otherworldly creature endowed with magic. Whether summoned, created, divined -- it is a nameless calamity which King Zeal christened the Khrusaor, a mythic, chaotic force of nature mentioned in Proto-zeal creation myth. The party find the Furies guarding the area and face a tough battle to dispatch them. Inside, it is dark, and Khrusaor speaks of his creation and his name. Magus is outright disturbed by the reference. Khrusaor taunts the party, revealing that the seal of the three furies would have slowly deprived him of life until death -- but their defeat has returned his power with added effect. Realizing that certain signatures of the party differ from that era's, he deduces they are time travelers and laughs that he will take whateve means of travel they use and unleash his chaos upon time to call back his creator, King Zeal, and kill him. The party have to stop him at all costs.

If this sounds good, then should the party have the option of running away, or should we make this boss absolutely death unless the party is prepared? I was thinking about having the Furies pretty damn tough, and at least letting them hint that something unbelievable is contained beyond. Of course, the player will probably thing "but Belthasar said King Zeal is in here" and will investigate nonetheless. Ah well, that's a lesson for humanity. Don't break the damn seal if you aren't ready to face the consequences.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: An idea for names...
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2006, 04:26:50 am »
What's killing me here is that this idea perhaps is neater than our previous "Mystic beast" ultimate idea. But...we'd probably have to invent something for their existence, too, if we were to "replace" Khrusaor or somehow work them in. Idea:

Belthasar reports that his agents have been watching a certain cave in 11998 B.C. where King Zeal was spotted long ago. He apparently was using it as a base of operations, but seems to have abandoned it. The reason is simple -- King Zeal accidentally brought about an abomanitable, otherworldly creature endowed with magic. Whether summoned, created, divined -- it is a nameless calamity which King Zeal christened the Khrusaor, a mythic, chaotic force of nature mentioned in Proto-zeal creation myth. The party find the Furies guarding the area and face a tough battle to dispatch them. Inside, it is dark, and Khrusaor speaks of his creation and his name. Magus is outright disturbed by the reference. Khrusaor taunts the party, revealing that the seal of the three furies would have slowly deprived him of life until death -- but their defeat has returned his power with added effect. Realizing that certain signatures of the party differ from that era's, he deduces they are time travelers and laughs that he will take whateve means of travel they use and unleash his chaos upon time to call back his creator, King Zeal, and kill him. The party have to stop him at all costs.

If this sounds good, then should the party have the option of running away, or should we make this boss absolutely death unless the party is prepared? I was thinking about having the Furies pretty damn tough, and at least letting them hint that something unbelievable is contained beyond. Of course, the player will probably thing "but Belthasar said King Zeal is in here" and will investigate nonetheless. Ah well, that's a lesson for humanity. Don't break the damn seal if you aren't ready to face the consequences.

Hmmm... I suppose so. As you're formulating your ideas, keep in mind the origin of the Furies. In myth, they are born when Kronos defeats Ouranos - actually, castrates - and throws the genitals away. The drips of blood upon the earth spawn the Furies, who thenceforward are the avengers of spilled kindred blood. Their 'siblings', others sprung from the blood, are the Giants, and the nymphs of ash-trees (weird, until one realizes that ash-trees were used to make spears - thus, the connection with blood.) That said, they could be coming specifically because of Janus - he defeated his mother in Trigger, and these could be HER Furies.

Okay, that merits explanation. The 'three' Furies I speak of are later invention. In early times they aren't mentioned by name, and their number is manifold. Generally, they are the avengers of the spillers of kindred blood. When Orestes kills his mother Klytemnestra, strightaway he is driven mad by these hideous creatures who make to pursue him. Driven mad, he seeks refuge at the shrine of Delphi, but they pursue him even there. It is only when he comes to Athens, and by jury trial is aquitted, that they leave him alone - as recompense, Athene makes them the Eumedies, the defenders of Athens. However, there is a real cultural spirit behind this. The Furies are old gods - disguisting in appearnce, dark, and chaotic. They are personified the old idea of vengeance - an eye for an eye. Orestes' defender Apollo stands for the bright new gods, the gods of order, and the murder trial which aquits him stands for the system of justice, which has taken the place of the old systems of vengeance which always breed more bloodshed. Anyway, that's the old tradition, and they're not named. And that's Aeschylus. Then we get the Roman writers, ie. Vergil and Statius, who are calling them by name. Just how Achilles suddenly becomes invincible save for his heel (unlike the fully mortal hero of Homer), they are given certain names. They are no longer these general avengers, but specific guardians of Hades. In writing this, I've more gone with the second idea. That said, it might be fitting to have them arise because of kin strife.

Now, though they say specific things for each character, I think their chief reason for being there should have something to do with Janus, and his killing of his mother in Trigger - sort of an unresolved thing. That's it - it could be a Janus side-quest, where he has to make peace with this. These Furies are sent by his mother, are haunting him for what he did to her (forget that he had cause to - Orestes did to, it doesn't matter to the Furies.) If you want to put Khrusaor into this, too, fine. But I think Janus having to make peace with the killing of his mother is important.

In fact, you could make hints throughout the game to the fact that Janus is hunted by these creatures. He could even mention now and again that he is hunted, but cryptically. Just a few things like 'but I must be careful, or they will catch me.' But never explain. Or a little 'My mother is still angry that I killed her; her vengeance does not rest.' 'My mother's vengeance has been hounding my heels.' Of course, it demands that Janus be in your party for the battle itself. Not neccessarially the leader, but at least there. They'll fight whoever gets in their way.

Khrusaor should remain as a seperate thing. Or, maybe, it is here by Khrusaor that they finally 'catch up' with Janus. Thus, they say not 'it is you whom we desire for our feast' but 'it is you, prince Janus, whom we desire for our feast, ever since your mother's blood cried out for vengeance.'
Then, if it is Janus, it goes right into them saying 'Prince, your term of life...' Whereas if another leads, they can step forward and say something like, for Marle, 'No way!'* Basically, the leader threatens them on behalf of Janus, and that launches into what I put before. And thus the battle.

I think that's best. I'm always for being clever with allusions in games. As such, I'm not content with the mere names of the Furies, but would prefer they fulfull similar functions. And, really, I think it's a good aspect of Janus' character. Did we ever consider having to resolve his matricide?

*Marle: 'No way!'
Crono: *shakes his head*
Ayla: 'Who you? Janus strong; we fight you.'
Lucca: 'I don't think I can allow that.'
Janus: 'So, you have found me at last. My mother's avengers...'
Robo: 'I will preserve my friend. My programming will not allow you to injure him.'
Glenn: 'You're expecting us to just let you take him? You're in for a surprise.'

Want me to write up the dialogue in a cohesive manner? Hmmm... okay, so basically, here's how it would go, with (-character-) before the character specific dialogue - note that the Fury dialogue can be used as leader dialogue... just don't put a specific name there, and instead put 'Fury:' and it should work.

*Characters enter a room. Discordant music and sound effects occur.*
(Off screen)
'By the Stygian marsh we, the three furious sisters, daughters of blood and night, command you halt!'
(Allecto enters)
'I, venomous Allecto, will drive you to madness.'
(Megaira enters)
'I, fierce Megaira, will rend you to carrion.'
(Tisiphone enters)
'And I, dark Tisiphone, will prison you in hell.'
(Then all together)
'We are they who pursue men; we who drink their blood; we who never relent the hunt. Where is our prey? It is you, prince Janus, whom we desire for our feast, ever since your mother's blood cried out to us for vengeance.'
*Now the dialogue is dependant on the leader.*

(If Janus is the leader)
Janus: 'So, you have found me at last. My mother's avengers...'
Furies: 'Prince, your term of life is long overdue. We come to bear you to judgement.'
Janus: '...'
Janus: 'To the crows with you!'

(If Marle is the leader)
Marle: 'No way!'
Furies: 'Dear thing, we will not spare your blood - to us it is very sweet.'
Marle: 'Yeah? Well...Come and take it!'

(If Crono is the leader)
Crono: *Shakes his head*
Furies: 'The cries of those whom you have killed echo from hell; soon you will be amongst them.'
Crono: *Draws sword*

(If Ayla is leader)
Ayla: 'Who you? Janus strong; Ayla strong; we fight you.'
Furies: 'Ancient one, we were already old when you were not; we who are born of heaven's blood, of violence in the morning age, are stronger than you.'
Ayla: You ugly. Ayla not scared. Ayla fight. Ayla win!

(If Lucca is leader)
Lucca: 'I don't think I can allow that.'
Furies: 'Look to the skies, girl, and see our father; to the stars, and see our birth from the fallen king. Like the Infamous Immortal, ours is a heavenly breeding.'
Lucca: Heh, bring it on! I suppose you've never heard of Lucca the Great?

(If Robo is leader)
Robo: 'I will preserve my friend. My programming will not allow you to injure him.'
Furies: 'Man of Bronze, immortal skin will not save you; your soul is ours.'
Robo: 'Computing... analysis: you will not win. I am not afraid.'

(If Glenn is leader)
Glenn: 'You're expecting us to just let you take him? You're in for a surprise.'
Furies: 'Strong fighter, even in death you shall not stand by Lethe - to our abodes beside vast Tartaros we will haul you.'
Glenn: 'More damned threats. You're all just lackeys. Come on! I have his back.'

*And then the battle ensues, with music like At the Bottom of Night, only a bit discordant. Can you change the instruments, perhaps? When the battle is over, Janus walks forward, and speaks.*

Janus: 'My mother's hatred was strong, and burned against me even after death. But now I am free of it. For that, each of you has my thanks. Come, let us onward - now no longer will I fear their pursuit.'

*Here, maybe, from the Furies, Janus receives the Totentanz, which later can be upgraded to the Kronian. After all, the Furies were born of the blood that dripped when Kronos castred Ouranos with his sickle. See the connection? It's only fitting that a weapon later to be the Kronian - or maybe if you want turn around and make this the Kronian, later to upgrade to Totentanz - comes from defeating the Furies.*

Now, this is probably the start of his character becoming less dark, as I see it. After all, in neither RD, or the Guile figure of Cross, is he dark. Well, he is dark, but he's noble. Not a jerk, at least. He is, however, in CT. My opinion is that he's still shaken from the long years of ruling the Mystics with such a harsh hand, and all the battles he endured in Zeal, trying to stop Lavos. Only after Trigger does his princely demeanour start to show again. I think reconciling himself to his mother's death by his hand (ie. in the Black Omen) is a step towards that. I think his character is not one given to depression, nor despair - only very serious thought and consideration. As such, he can overcome these demons of his past, and be stronger for it.

What do you think? This can be a side-quest, then. Or maybe even part of the actual story. Or as they're going by Khrusaor's lair. After this, they can go to the entrance of that place. But the two needn't be connected. This is only where the Furies finally caught up with Janus.

Oh, by the way, yes, I'm working on armour (etc.) names. By the way, I'm still worried about SE... maybe if I change my name on the forums. Heh. Yeah, change it to... darn, let's see... 'Aoidos'. That's the term for a Greek bard.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 04:35:20 am by Daniel Krispin »