Author Topic: Space in chrono trigger  (Read 7941 times)

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2008, 11:03:58 am »
Well, the moon is a necessary part for further colonization.. Future colonists would need a mining base for metals and other minerals. I think I've read somewhere that your NASA is planning to return men to our moon, so become stepping stone for future manned attempts to mars.. And what about TERRAFORMING??

Lunar communities would be inevitably formed around these mining bases, and water would have to be imported from Earth to sustain them, at whatever economic cost..

Also, there are other ways to propel spacecraft aside from rocket fuel.. Ion drives are in experimentation nowadays i believe, nuclear propulsion, and hydrogen drives too.. if not, then tech level of the 1999ers in the Chronoverse would have possibly found a solution other than those..

Lunar outposts, not Lunar colonies, are a step (but not a necessary one) of future colonization. Indeed, the very difficulties that creating a useful human outpost on the moon is a good indication that Chrono Earth didn't colonize anywhere else. Besides the limiting expense of transporting water (and you need the resource before people could live there, so water would not have to be imported; people would have to be limited to what can be sustained), there is also the health problems associated with prolonged exposure to reduced gravity. It is fairly easy to reduce these effects over short term but over extended periods of time they are critical.

Mining the moon might happen, but this would have to largely be a mechanized operation with as limited human interaction as possible. It would be utterly impractical to fill entire caverns with an atmosphere and miners in space-suits would be limited in movement and as such in great danger. Robots would need to do the majority of mining with humans to supervise. No communities would form around these locations for the simple reason that none would be allowed. This is for the same reason that communities don't spring up around off-shore oil wells.

It is important to note that Terraforming is scientifically possible, but it is NOT alchemy. The moon will never be terraformed (though it is possible that isolated locations might have contained "terraforming," as per the noted biodome concept). Its lack of gravity, for example, makes it impossible for it to retain and earth-like atmosphere. It has no natural water resources; it is economic suicide to bring in enough water for an entire colony, but it is effectively impossible to bring in enough water to terraform it. Importing oceans is not possible. Without an atmosphere, the moon is subject to solar bursts, meteorite impacts, and "dust storms."

Other forms of space travel besides "rockets" are quite possible, but not probable for this purpose. A ship carrying the necessary materials for a nuclear powered ship can never be sent into orbit or return from orbit; the risk is rare too great. A technical error, the ship falls apart, and entire continents are subject to unacceptable levels of radiation. The materials would need to be gathered in outerspace itself (hence, why a lunar outpost would be needed). Besides, the very nature of nuclear powered vessels make it a poor choice for lifting materials off earth; propelling one's self through use of atomic explosions is all well and good in outerspace, but the numerous above-ground nuclear explosions needed to get it off of earth would likewise be unacceptable.

Ion engines are another technology that would be wonderful for outerspace but utterly useless for getting stuff off earth. Ion engines are wonderful because, like the Orion project for nuclear propulsion, Ion engines would have a very high specific impulse. But the thrust provided would not be enough to overcome gravity, as ion engines are notable for applying force over time. In a near frictionless environment, like space, a little adds up quickly (to note, however, that Ion engines can only accelerate for around 1/2 the trip, they have to slow down for the rest). But on earth, it wouldn't even get off the ground.

The most likely means of effectively lifting matter off earth (a necessary component in colonization) would be a space elevator. We do not see any such thing in CT.

Beyond that, the Lagrangian points would be a better staging point for future colonization than the moon.

It isn't that it is impossible that humans colonized the moon or other planets in the Chronoverse, however we see no indications that this happened, we see no indications that they had the capabilities, and there is a veritable 'verse full of reasons why doing so would have been difficult. With no support and near endless opposing reasons, this does not seem to be a tenable theory.

VincentGAU8

  • Enlightened One (+200)
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Toma The Explorer!! TOMA!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2008, 11:27:52 am »
It is still possible, provided by a sufficient level of technology.. the nearest help would be Earth, and that is a relatively short distance.. But point conceded, that the moon is far too dangerous for normal communities and is unsuitable for terraforming, but maybe other kind of communities might be built on it, such as prisons and research facilities, and substantial human presence might still be achieved on the moon...

I was not about to delve into the technical details of those propulsion systems mentioned, nor their capabilities. My point was that technological levels in the 1999 Chronoverse was advanced enough to attempt those things..

And yes, we did not see any indication that the Chronoverse denizens colonized the moon or other planets.. And because of that any plausible conclusion would not be reached.. but it was fun speculating  :)

placidchap

  • Temporal Warrior (+900)
  • *
  • Posts: 905
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2008, 01:07:34 pm »
Maybe if we all just drink filtered pee, we wouldn't need to transport all that much.  Just enough to get everyone to pee a few times and there you go! mm

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2008, 01:17:50 pm »
And because of that any plausible conclusion would not be reached.. but it was fun speculating  :)

I totally agree. People talk about space exploration too little these days, for my liking.

Maybe if we all just drink filtered pee, we wouldn't need to transport all that much.  Just enough to get everyone to pee a few times and there you go! mm

Pee isn't enough. You excrete moisture every moment of the day by breathing, moisture evaporates from your skin, and unless you are some inhuman fiend, you're crap ain't bone dry either.

People would need stillsuits to reclaim personal body moisture effectively, and even those still loose moisture.

VincentGAU8

  • Enlightened One (+200)
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Toma The Explorer!! TOMA!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2008, 09:04:01 pm »
And because of that any plausible conclusion would not be reached.. but it was fun speculating  :)

I totally agree. People talk about space exploration too little these days, for my liking.

Maybe if we all just drink filtered pee, we wouldn't need to transport all that much.  Just enough to get everyone to pee a few times and there you go! mm

Pee isn't enough. You excrete moisture every moment of the day by breathing, moisture evaporates from your skin, and unless you are some inhuman fiend, you're crap ain't bone dry either.

People would need stillsuits to reclaim personal body moisture effectively, and even those still loose moisture.

Well, space is humanity's FINAL frontier.. There is no other way for human progress except up into the heavens, and beyond... And drinking pee, even filtered ones, is an act of desperation...

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2008, 10:16:36 am »
Well now, that seems a bit hasty to say that space is the final frontier. What about exploring time?

BROJ

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1567
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2008, 11:11:20 am »
Well now, that seems a bit hasty to say that space is the final frontier. What about exploring time?
I think it would be 'fairer' to say space is the final spatial frontier. At any rate, exploring time is more of a metaphorical frontier, anyways.

VincentGAU8

  • Enlightened One (+200)
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Toma The Explorer!! TOMA!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2008, 05:19:52 am »
Well now, that seems a bit hasty to say that space is the final frontier. What about exploring time?
I think it would be 'fairer' to say space is the final spatial frontier. At any rate, exploring time is more of a metaphorical frontier, anyways.

Well, I consider Time and Space as a single existense.. Both are indispensable parts of the known Universe, and one cannot come into being without the other: By the creation of Time, Space could begin to expand, and by the creation of Space, Time could begin to flow.. So, in a sense, by exploring Space, you are also exploring Time. Consider this: our telescopes are time machines in their own right, they show us what the Universe looked like, billions of years ago, not what it looks like today, because light takes time to reach us here in Earth.. That is how i see it..  :?

BROJ

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1567
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2008, 03:32:01 pm »
Well, I consider Time and Space as a single existense.. Both are indispensable parts of the known Universe, and one cannot come into being without the other: By the creation of Time, Space could begin to expand, and by the creation of Space, Time could begin to flow.. So, in a sense, by exploring Space, you are also exploring Time. Consider this: our telescopes are time machines in their own right, they show us what the Universe looked like, billions of years ago, not what it looks like today, because light takes time to reach us here in Earth.. That is how i see it..  :?
Well, first off time(4-D) and space(1~3-D) are not dependent on each other, but rather independent of each other. What does this mean? It means that one can modify the coordinate(look at it as a value as looking at it as a direction is inherently self-contradictory--i.e. if one is going a positive distance in one direction then one is going a negative distance in the other--a logical impossibility. Simple physics, although not entirely pertinent to the discussion at hand--just thought I'd note.) of a single dimension and not have to modify another--and since time is considered a dimension--it is not immune to this facet. So no dimension is really dependent on another, although in a subjective view it would appear to be. Case in point: Quantum Tunneling.

VincentGAU8

  • Enlightened One (+200)
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Toma The Explorer!! TOMA!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2008, 04:14:02 am »
Do you mean that one of the two (Time or Space) can exist without the other?
And that one *might* travel to any point in space without having to change the time dimension too?

BROJ

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1567
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2008, 12:36:33 am »
Do you mean that one of the two (Time or Space) can exist without the other?
And that one *might* travel to any point in space without having to change the time dimension too?
Yes and yes(according quantum theory and subatomic observation.).

VincentGAU8

  • Enlightened One (+200)
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Toma The Explorer!! TOMA!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2008, 08:39:01 pm »
Do you mean that one of the two (Time or Space) can exist without the other?
And that one *might* travel to any point in space without having to change the time dimension too?
Yes and yes(according quantum theory and subatomic observation.).

Really? what about the so called Time-Space continuum, the link between the two? and what about gravity, which is the distortion of Space itself by an object with mass, that also affects Time right? when Space is distorted, Time is distorterd and slowed down likewise..  maybe they are not a single existense, but i cannot see why Time would not need a venue sch as Space, to flow.. and would Space still continue its expansion without the flow of Time? i dont know much about it though, but i am mighty curious.. please, anything in layman's terms..

BROJ

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1567
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2008, 12:12:05 am »
Alright one more... then can we get back on topic?

Really? what about the so called Time-Space continuum, the link between the two? and what about gravity, which is the distortion of Space itself by an object with mass, that also affects Time right? when Space is distorted, Time is distorterd and slowed down likewise..  maybe they are not a single existense, but i cannot see why Time would not need a venue sch as Space, to flow.. and would Space still continue its expansion without the flow of Time? i dont know much about it though, but i am mighty curious.. please, anything in layman's terms..
The space-time continuum, as it's so named, is a mathematical model that merges space and time into a single construct in an effort to simplify a major component of physical theory to allow a more uniform insight into the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels. As for the distortion of space and time, I think it's more accurate to say that mass affects dimensional flux. Like I said before, dimensions aren't dependent on each other, however, our existences are dependent on the dimensions' interactivity.

VincentGAU8

  • Enlightened One (+200)
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Toma The Explorer!! TOMA!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2008, 06:24:59 am »
Alright one more... then can we get back on topic?

Really? what about the so called Time-Space continuum, the link between the two? and what about gravity, which is the distortion of Space itself by an object with mass, that also affects Time right? when Space is distorted, Time is distorterd and slowed down likewise..  maybe they are not a single existense, but i cannot see why Time would not need a venue sch as Space, to flow.. and would Space still continue its expansion without the flow of Time? i dont know much about it though, but i am mighty curious.. please, anything in layman's terms..
The space-time continuum, as it's so named, is a mathematical model that merges space and time into a single construct in an effort to simplify a major component of physical theory to allow a more uniform insight into the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels. As for the distortion of space and time, I think it's more accurate to say that mass affects dimensional flux. Like I said before, dimensions aren't dependent on each other, however, our existences are dependent on the dimensions' interactivity.

So, you are saying, that there is some intimate link between the two (Space and Time)?
And what about the expansion of Space, what does that have to do with Time?

BROJ

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1567
    • View Profile
Re: Space in chrono trigger
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2008, 11:40:25 am »
So, you are saying, that there is some intimate link between the two (Space and Time)?
And what about the expansion of Space, what does that have to do with Time?
No, it's only a model to make the math easier. As for the second part that is a question that physicists are working on right now...