Author Topic: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil  (Read 13268 times)

ZeaLitY

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #105 on: November 04, 2006, 01:09:08 pm »
...

The thread is not supposed to change your beliefs or something. The Root of All Evil or the God Delusion book is. Go watch it on Youtube.

Corey Taylor

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #106 on: November 04, 2006, 08:36:50 pm »
Do you know how late it was when I posted that?
Quote
I'm probably not thinking as logically as many of you were.
 
Quote
You don't see much of anything on this subject. Come back when you're tall enough to peek over the grownup's table.

Again, it was late. The way I see it religion is only a problem if you make it one. Some people take it furhter than others but it doesn't call for J to stereotype all religions because of stupid people. Religious people don't want to take over, they just want to share their religion with others because they believe that it's the right thing to do.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #107 on: November 05, 2006, 01:04:27 am »
It still creates a plethora of moral issues. We're advocating unfounded belief. When we say things like "God transcends reason," then the terrorists have won. There might as well be no scientific method or human society since anything goes. And as Dawkins put it, accepting a crazy worldview and meaning of the universe is virtually regressing back to childhood psychology. As adults we have gained hypothetical thought processing and the knowledge that things aren't black and white, but rather subtle shades of gray. But religion advocates returning to black and white and bucking the truth in return for comfort. And while the idea of a cold, dark universe may sound scary, that's only part of the picture -- the universe is impossibly fantastic in design and beauty. Sitting breathless beneath a tranquil sky illuminated by a full moon, or beholding the intricate workings of beautiful phenomena -- those are examples of where true beauty and cosmic understanding lie.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #108 on: November 05, 2006, 01:28:12 am »
It still creates a plethora of moral issues. We're advocating unfounded belief. When we say things like "God transcends reason," then the terrorists have won. There might as well be no scientific method or human society since anything goes. And as Dawkins put it, accepting a crazy worldview and meaning of the universe is virtually regressing back to childhood psychology. As adults we have gained hypothetical thought processing and the knowledge that things aren't black and white, but rather subtle shades of gray. But religion advocates returning to black and white and bucking the truth in return for comfort. And while the idea of a cold, dark universe may sound scary, that's only part of the picture -- the universe is impossibly fantastic in design and beauty. Sitting breathless beneath a tranquil sky illuminated by a full moon, or beholding the intricate workings of beautiful phenomena -- those are examples of where true beauty and cosmic understanding lie.

Yes, indeed. However, I would also advocate a tempering of the rational. If one stands by reason to the exclusion of religion - or at least something spiritual - one's actually lessened themselves, and have only a half-view of the world, as surely as the purely religious is limiting. Forget organized religion for a second - yes, I advocate that, too, but that's unimportant here - and just consider it as faith and reason, expressions of the spirit and the mind. To fully realise what it is that makes one human, one must strike the balance between these. For most societies of history, things have been almost wholly spiritual - now, we've swung to the fully rational. Both have problems. Thus, strike for the middle.

Okay, that's not my idea. Actually, it was essentially something I read in Edith Hamilton's Greek Way, in speaking of the Classical Athenians. Her stance is that they accomplished what they did, the clarity and the power of their art, because they had both faith and reason in due measure. They looked at things rationally - questioned orthodox, even - but still had that power of spirit that is faith. No other culture was ever so balanced. If one goes to far to one side or the other, to faith or to reason, reality is lost. If we lose sight of either, we lose our humanity.

My desire in life is therefore to always find that balance. If we throw out our religion, wholly disdain it, we not only deceive ourselves (exchanging a god or orthodoxy for a more insidious type of self-worship, often) into a false, and very, very dangerous sense of freedom; if we throw out reason, we lose reality, and might as well not be.

Actually, ZeaLitY, though you're not exactly religious from what I know, you do seem to me to have that sort of classical Greek attitude (or, at least how Hamilton speaks of it - she is a bit, um, philhellenic), for another attribute is one that refuses to see life as grey (here I don't mean truth, or things, but the experiences of life.) Their tragedy is so tragic because life is beautiful. An idea of having things to their full experience, good and bad. Never comfort in exchange for truth.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #109 on: November 05, 2006, 01:59:47 am »
Yes; if I could truly change myself easily, I'd become a perfect taskmaster and hot-blooded man. Not in the "I get into fights" sense, but in the "take every enterprise with the passion of youth" and "complete EVERYTHING" senses. I lose an awful lot of time wondering what to do about certain things, and I honestly could be outputting volumes of creativity or at least accomplishing other things. It may be arrogant and it may evoke responses of "well sorry, but you're just human," but I believe that no individual is confined to humanity's example in the past. Humanity's definition is just the result of how [remembered] people lived before you. There is still room to record greater achievement and stronger, burning passion in the definition of humanity. I may never live as passionately as I'd like or as someone in the past did, but damnit, I'm not limiting myself and closing the possibility. The conscious will sits on the throne, and the world stands on its end for those far and few between who give one-hundred percent.

Nothing is ever written in stone. The potential to excel is always there; it's a matter of unleashing the dragon and going as far as your heart will take you. The dragon is two-fold, though. You throw down the gauntlet and seize control of your life. You can apply passion to anything, but having the discretion to select your own projects and pursue your own loves is developed once you start caring. I hope one day that I'll know myself well enough to select what I want to desire and immediately accomplish. To be able to satisfy curiosity swiftly and voraciously, and accomplish the most staggering projects in a blink of supernova passion -- that's what allures me. I mean, some things may always take time, but there is no doubt that when you apply your full self to something, there is magic and power working alongside. It's so easy to fall prey to established norms and self-defined limits. You may think of artists or scientists who dedicate their lives to certain studies. But I conversely see Dr. Benton Quests, Doc Savages, and others -- men with such belief, proficiency, and desire that they are able to explore whatever they wish with the power to achieve. You may say these are impossibly eclectic fictional characters -- but I hold they are invitations to become. To take pleasure in your raw, long-term achievement, and leave apathetic living aside -- that is power. No one shall define the length and limits of my ambitions -- not even me. There is working on something, and then there is waking up each day anticipating the chance to express yourself and sculpt your dreams in whatever you engage in -- struggling with each second to realize your passion with your full love and vivacity unleashed. This is what legends are made of. And someday, I hope to have that power. The power to live and experience all shades of this world, and to play a unique, enchanting, and self-driven and enjoying melody.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 02:09:37 am by ZeaLitY »

Corey Taylor

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #110 on: November 05, 2006, 02:55:17 am »
I antistagonated replies such as these. You judge my sense of protitionalistic vergations because I have a strong faith in God. But you don't realize that I too grudgetantilate the smulder of religion. It's not all about graphimacations and frimizes. All Lord J did was demastificate the ambrosia of religion. Daniel gave a good trimple of shithuntim which deals with the vintamism of cardem. All I have to say is, strategerie. *thinks to self, "I'm good"*

Let's just drop this discussion and leave with the fact that everyone has a different opinion on religion.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #111 on: November 05, 2006, 05:26:34 am »
Let's just drop this discussion and leave with the fact that everyone has a different opinion on religion.

Be quiet. Just when Daniel and ZeaLitY start to have a good exchange, your nonsense is not needed. Be quiet and learn something rather than trying to guide a conversation you don't understand.

As for you, ZeaLitY, that was well said. You're better at appealing to Daniel's sense of intellectual openness than I am.

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #112 on: November 05, 2006, 09:02:24 am »
After doing a bit of encyclopedia reading, I think that Jewish guy in the Root of All Evil did touch upon something. Some magazine I read a while back noted that some recent upturn in faith was probably due to the fact that going atheist / humanist / scientific did not provide a philosophy of living, and that religion does. That seemed like a valid point, and brought to mind the Romantics' following the Age of Enlightenment and rebelling against the massive changes and industrialization by idealizing simpler life among nature. Seems to be in the same verse of things. That's another reason why I like Star trek, actually...Earth is not some stupid Coruscant ecumenopolis, but seems to be verdant and thriving, with small, concentrated cities dotting the continents here and there. San Francisco is beautiful; there are fields and trees, as opposed to some giant, ugly monstrosity of metal in testament to stifled life that rises out of the ground like an ugly blemish on the surface of the beautiful land. That is not the future. Call me a hopeless wanderluster, but I do not care for large, sprawling cities.



Um, Coruscant ?  Thats not earth :p

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #113 on: November 06, 2006, 05:46:01 am »
Yes; if I could truly change myself easily, I'd become a perfect taskmaster and hot-blooded man. Not in the "I get into fights" sense, but in the "take every enterprise with the passion of youth" and "complete EVERYTHING" senses. I lose an awful lot of time wondering what to do about certain things, and I honestly could be outputting volumes of creativity or at least accomplishing other things. It may be arrogant and it may evoke responses of "well sorry, but you're just human," but I believe that no individual is confined to humanity's example in the past. Humanity's definition is just the result of how [remembered] people lived before you. There is still room to record greater achievement and stronger, burning passion in the definition of humanity. I may never live as passionately as I'd like or as someone in the past did, but damnit, I'm not limiting myself and closing the possibility. The conscious will sits on the throne, and the world stands on its end for those far and few between who give one-hundred percent.

Nothing is ever written in stone. The potential to excel is always there; it's a matter of unleashing the dragon and going as far as your heart will take you. The dragon is two-fold, though. You throw down the gauntlet and seize control of your life. You can apply passion to anything, but having the discretion to select your own projects and pursue your own loves is developed once you start caring. I hope one day that I'll know myself well enough to select what I want to desire and immediately accomplish. To be able to satisfy curiosity swiftly and voraciously, and accomplish the most staggering projects in a blink of supernova passion -- that's what allures me. I mean, some things may always take time, but there is no doubt that when you apply your full self to something, there is magic and power working alongside. It's so easy to fall prey to established norms and self-defined limits. You may think of artists or scientists who dedicate their lives to certain studies. But I conversely see Dr. Benton Quests, Doc Savages, and others -- men with such belief, proficiency, and desire that they are able to explore whatever they wish with the power to achieve. You may say these are impossibly eclectic fictional characters -- but I hold they are invitations to become. To take pleasure in your raw, long-term achievement, and leave apathetic living aside -- that is power. No one shall define the length and limits of my ambitions -- not even me. There is working on something, and then there is waking up each day anticipating the chance to express yourself and sculpt your dreams in whatever you engage in -- struggling with each second to realize your passion with your full love and vivacity unleashed. This is what legends are made of. And someday, I hope to have that power. The power to live and experience all shades of this world, and to play a unique, enchanting, and self-driven and enjoying melody.

Well, now, you're certainly as dauntless as ever. Depression is really not for you, is it?

Actually, you know what you remind me of? I saw bits and pieces of a movie on TV long ago, called Shape of Things to Come - HG Wells, I think. I'm betting you probably know it, but anyway, from what I gathered watching, oh, a scattered fifteen minutes, a cataclysmic war basically destroys civilization. However, a few people refuse to submit to the backward turn, and recreate society better than it was before. You've got that sort of mentality, I think. What's the last line in the movie? I'll look for it, as it seems apt to these sorts of things you were saying. Honestly, it seems to be one of the best constructed pieces of dialogue I have ever seen - immensely powerful. Yeah, okay, I found it on IMDB:

Raymond Passworthy: Oh, God, is there ever to be any age of happiness? Is there never to be any rest?
Oswald Cabal: Rest enough for the individual man - too much, and too soon - and we call it death. But for Man, no rest and no ending. He must go on, conquest beyond conquest. First this little planet with its winds and ways, and then all the laws of mind and matter that restrain him. Then the planets about him and at last out across immensity to the stars. And when he has conquered all the deeps of space and all the mysteries of time, still he will be beginning.
Raymond Passworthy: But... we're such little creatures. Poor humanity's so fragile, so weak. Little... little animals.
Oswald Cabal: Little animals. If we're no more than animals, we must snatch each little scrap of happiness and live and suffer and pass, mattering no more than all the other animals do or have done. Is it this? Or that? All the universe? Or nothingness? Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?


I remember I'd seen the first fifteen minutes of that on TV, had left somewhere, and had turned it on again in the last ten minutes. Really cheezy effects (1930s, after all), bad quality, but... at least the way I remember it, those lines are incredibly powerful. Kind of reminds me of you.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 05:58:13 am by Daniel Krispin »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #114 on: November 06, 2006, 01:17:27 pm »
Well, certainly can't say I'm there yet...

ZeaLitY

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Re: Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil
« Reply #115 on: December 11, 2006, 04:59:47 pm »