Author Topic: Translations?  (Read 3063 times)

urobolus

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Translations?
« on: June 21, 2004, 01:53:14 am »
Hey.

I was just a-wondering if anyone had ever translated the japanese version of CT, and if it was available online.

I hear it adds more to the story, but I can't seem to find it.  Where in the world have all of you found it?  Or are most of you just fluent in japanese?

Radical_Dreamer

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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2004, 01:55:53 am »
Most of us are not fluent in Japanese, however, there is at least one member (sorry, I'm shit with names) who has a Japanese teacher (I believe) looking in to it.

Some very interesting information has been popping up, and I'm sure a full translation will reveal how different the two versions really are.

Leebot

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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2004, 12:00:40 pm »
There's a FAQ at GameFAQ's that addresses a lot of the changes. I'm not sure if it has everything, but it's worth checking out.

Green Dream

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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2004, 12:05:39 am »
Sadly the one Gamefaqs isn't so great.  Don't get me wrong I'm greatful for just that little bit.  However, most of the real important parts say not exactly sure what this means or haven't translated by them.

Arc Impulse

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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2004, 12:31:42 am »
Mm, I read Japanese passably, and I'm playing through the Japanese version of CT right now (I'm stuck at Norstein Bekkler's trying to win the Crono Clone because I have no coordination to begin with, and less on emulated control buttons, LOL).  Personally (in my highly inexpert opinion), I would say that I've noticed a lot of little differences and nuances between the two, but nothing that I would call particularly important (many of the things that were changed/removed, I think, were either due to Nintendo's SNES-era censorship regulations or cartridge space considerations).  However, one nuance that really strikes me is that the characters tend to talk quite a bit differently.  To use Magus as an example (since he's my favorite character, he's the one I pay most attention to in either version ^.^; ), in the English version, at times he sounds pretty formal, don't you think?  Almost stilted in places, especially in, say, the North Cape scene.  In the Japanese version, on the other hand, he honestly sounds like a bit of a teenage punk to me.  XD;  People have talked before about how rude the Japanese Magus is, and that's quite true, but his rudeness isn't a formal sort of thing inserted here and there, like American Magus's "Play with fire and you get burned"...  It's more generally distributed throughout his dialect, in a very Japanese way that's hard to translate.  Still, it's nothing like the regal, formal quality of the majority of American Magus's lines.

And, uh, I'm going to stop rambling now.  ^_^;

Radical_Dreamer

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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2004, 04:20:56 am »
Feel free to post actual quotes from the Japanese that are different from the American, such as to illustrate the point with Magus, or just information that isn't in the American version.[/subtle hint]

Chrono'99

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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2004, 05:15:17 am »
Mmh, is this "teenage punk" dialect from Magus comparable to Kid's way of speaking? That would be nice.

Symmetry

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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2004, 10:14:48 pm »
Quote from: Arc Impulse
Mm, I read Japanese passably, and I'm playing through the Japanese version of CT right now (I'm stuck at Norstein Bekkler's trying to win the Crono Clone because I have no coordination to begin with, and less on emulated control buttons, LOL).  Personally (in my highly inexpert opinion), I would say that I've noticed a lot of little differences and nuances between the two, but nothing that I would call particularly important (many of the things that were changed/removed, I think, were either due to Nintendo's SNES-era censorship regulations or cartridge space considerations).  However, one nuance that really strikes me is that the characters tend to talk quite a bit differently.  To use Magus as an example (since he's my favorite character, he's the one I pay most attention to in either version ^.^; ), in the English version, at times he sounds pretty formal, don't you think?  Almost stilted in places, especially in, say, the North Cape scene.  In the Japanese version, on the other hand, he honestly sounds like a bit of a teenage punk to me.  XD;  People have talked before about how rude the Japanese Magus is, and that's quite true, but his rudeness isn't a formal sort of thing inserted here and there, like American Magus's "Play with fire and you get burned"...  It's more generally distributed throughout his dialect, in a very Japanese way that's hard to translate.  Still, it's nothing like the regal, formal quality of the majority of American Magus's lines.

And, uh, I'm going to stop rambling now.  ^_^;


Very interesting.

Might I ask how long you've been studying Japanese, or whether its semi-native to you?

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2004, 01:09:47 am »
Har, I can name a quote of Magus in English that's very punkbastardish.

First, let me advertise on my own site:

From the Chrono Trigger Script:

Magus: ...

   You got whacked, 'cuz you're weak.

I've also heard that Magus called Crono a cockroach on the North Cape in the Japanese cart, and that is a damnable, horrendous insult in Japanese. Seems suited for Neji to call Ino, Shikamaru, and ...Choji? the same in Naruto.

Arc Impulse

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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2004, 02:42:05 am »
Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
Feel free to post actual quotes from the Japanese that are different from the American, such as to illustrate the point with Magus, or just information that isn't in the American version.[/subtle hint]

XD  Your wish is my command.  I only have one complete scene translated (translating by taking screenshots of each and every text box is...  not fun at all), but I'll put it up in the next post.  It's not the best example of what I was talking about above but at least I don't think it's been retranslated by anybody else in its entirety before...

Quote from: Chrono'99
Mmh, is this "teenage punk" dialect from Magus comparable to Kid's way of speaking? That would be nice.

I'm not familiar with the Japanese version of Chrono Cross, so I'm afraid I really couldn't say.  I suspect they'd be different, though, seeing as Kid is a girl.

Quote from: Symmetry
Might I ask how long you've been studying Japanese, or whether its semi-native to you?

No, I'm not native or semi-native; I've been studying the language for about 7 years.  (I still have a LOT to learn, though.  My grammar is pretty good, my vocabulary is adequate, my kanji-reading skills are horrible.  Fortunately we have this marvelous invention called the dictionary, LOL.)

ETA:
Quote from: Zeality
I've also heard that Magus called Crono a cockroach on the North Cape in the Japanese cart, and that is a damnable, horrendous insult in Japanese. Seems suited for Neji to call Ino, Shikamaru, and ...Choji? the same in Naruto.

Nope.  I've translated the entire North Cape scene (and will post it in a moment) and there's no mention of cockroaches, or comparing them to Crono.  He does make a general comment about 'insects' and/or 'worms' (the version I used) which includes Crono.

Arc Impulse

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North Cape dialogue
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2004, 03:02:57 am »
So here goes the North Cape scene.  I'll make comments afterwards.

Quote from: Chrono Trigger JP

魔王 「お前達か……。
    omaetachi ka......

カエル 「ま、魔王!!
    Ma, Maou!!

魔王 「見るがいい。
     すべては海の底だ……。
    miru ga ii.
    subete wa umi no soko da......

     永遠なる夢の王国ジール……。
    eien naru yume no oukoku Jiiru......

魔王 「かつて私はそこにいた。
     もうひとりの自分としてな……。
    katsute watashi wa soko ni ita.
    mou hitori no jibun toshite na......

[Flashback--skipped the dialogue as it's pretty boring and more or less exactly the same as the English]

カエル 「そうか、お前……
    sou ka, omae......

     あの時のガキ……!
    ano toki no gaki......!

魔王 「……。

     私はヤツを倒すことだけ
     考え生きてきた……。
    watashi wa yatsu wo taosu koto dake
    kangae ikitekita......

     ヤツが作りだしたうずに飲み込まれ
     中世に落ちて以来な……。
     yatsu ga tsukuridashita uzu ni nomikomare
     chuusei ni ochite irai na......

     わが城でラヴォスを呼びだす事を
     お前達にジャマされ……
    waga jou de Ravosu wo yobidasu koto wo
    omaetachi ni jamasare......

     ふたたび次元のうずに飲み込まれ
     たどりついた先がこの時代とはな……。
    futatabi jigen no uzu ni nomikomare
    tadoritsuita saki ga kono jidai to wa na......

     ヒニクなものだ……。
    hiniku na mono da......

     歴史を知る私は、予言者として女王に
     近づきラヴォスとの対決を待った……。
    rekishi wo shiru watashi wa, yogensha toshite joou ni
    chikadzuki Ravosu to no taiketsu wo matta......

     しかし結果は……。
    shikashi kekka wa......

     ……。

     ラヴォスの力は強大だ。
     ヤツの前では、全ての者に
     黒き死の風がふきすさぶ……。
    Ravosu no chikara wa kyoudai da.
    yatsu no mae de wa, subete no mono ni
    kuroki shi no kaze ga fukisusabu......

     このままではお前達も同じ運命だぞ。
     あのクロノとかいうヤツとな!
    kono mama de wa omaetachi mo onaji unmei da zo.
    ano Kurono to ka iu yatsu to na!

カエル 「……!

     あいつをぶじょくする気か……!
    aitsu wo bujoku suru ki ka......!

魔王 「ヤツは死んだ!
     弱き者は虫ケラのように死ぬ。
     ただそれだけだ……。
    yatsu wa shinda!
    yowakimono wa mushikera no you ni shinu.
    tada sore dake da......

カエル 「魔王ッ!!

    Maou!!

魔王 「今ここでやるか……?
     はい
     いいえ
 ima koko de yaru ka......?
hai
iie



Path 1: If you choose 「いいえ」

     ……。

カエル 「今キサマを倒したところで
     クロノは戻った来ん……。
     サイラスもな……。
    ima kisama wo taoshita tokoro de
    Kurono wa modotta kon......
    Sairasu mo na......

魔王 「……。

魔王 「待て。
    mate.

魔王 「私も行ってやる。
    watashi mo itteyaru.

カエル 「ふ、ふざけるな!!
    fu, fuzakeru na!!

魔王 「ヤツを……
     クロノを生き返らせる手
     ないわけではない……。
    yatsu wo...
    Kurono wo ikikaeraseru te
    nai wake de wa nai......

カエル 「何!?
    Nani!?

魔王 「時の賢者ハッシュなら
     失った時を取り戻す方法を
     知っているはずだ……。
    toki no kenja Hasshu nara
    ushinatta toki wo torimodosu houhou wo
    shitteiru hazu da......



Path 2: If you choose 「はい」

カエル 「お前達は下がっている……。
    omaetachi sagatteiru......

魔王 「……。

     まさか、お前とこの時代で
     決着をつける事になるとはな……。
    masaka, omae to kono jidai de
    kecchaku wo tsukeru koto ni naru to wa na......

     来い……!
    Koi......!

[Fight, Kaeru wins]

カエル 「サイラス……。
     やったぞ……。
    Sairasu......
    yatta zo......

魔王 「私が死ねば……
     カエルの呪いは
     いずれ解ける……。
    watashi ga shineba......
    Kaeru no noroi wa
    izure hodokeru......

     クロノを生き返らせたければ……
     時の……
    Kurono wo ikikaerasetakereba......
    toki no......

     時の賢者に……、会え……。
    toki no kenja ni......, ae......



Maou: So it's you all, huh...

Kaeru: Ma, Maou!!

Magus: Take a good look.
It's all at the bottom of the sea......

Zeal, the kingdom where dreams become eternal......

I lived there once.
No, more like another me......   [lit. "As another self, huh......"]

[Flashback--skipped the dialogue as it's pretty boring and more or less exactly the same as the English]

Kaeru: Is that right... you...

You're that brat from when...!

Magus: ......

I've lived only for the thought of defeating that bastard......

I was swallowed up in the thing's vortex and then fell into the middle ages......

You all got in the way when I was calling Lavos at my castle......

I was swallowed by a dimensional vortex again, and the destination I struggled my way to ended up being this era......

It's ironic......

Since I knew the history, I approached the Queen as a prophet, and waited for my confrontation with Lavos......

But the result was......

......

Lavos has unbelievable power.  The black wind of death blows for everyone who faces that bastard......

As it is now, you all will end up with the same fate.
The same as that moron Chrono, or whatever he's called!

Kaeru: You'd insult him...!?

Maou: The idiot's dead!
Weak people drop dead like the worms they are.   [lit="weak people die like worms/insects"]
That's all they can do......   [lit="merely/solely that only....."]

Kaeru: Maou!!

Maou: Are we gonna do it here and now......?     [note: yaru is a great verb.  Can mean 'do', 'kill', 'have sex'......]
Yes
No



Path 1: If you choose No

Maou: ......

Kaeru: Even if I defeated you now,
Chrono wouldn't come back......
Nor Cyrus......

Maou: ......

Wait.

I'll go too.

Kaeru: D, don't mock us!!

Maou: It's not necessarily impossible to revive the idio--....  Chrono.

Kaeru: What!?

Maou: The Sage of Time, Hash, should know ways of regaining lost time......



Path 2: If you choose Yes

Kaeru: You two, step back......

Maou: ......

I can't believe we've reached our conclusion in this era, of all places......

C'mon......!

[Fight, Kaeru wins]

Kaeru: Cyrus......
I did it......

Maou: If I die...  Kaeru's curse will fall apart anyway......

If you want to revive Chrono...  Find...

Find the Sage of......  Time......    [lit. "meet with the Sage of Time"]




So, a few things I can think of to say about this.

The only really interesting tidbit from the flashback dialogue that I left out is you hear the term Jaki/Janus calls Sara/Schala (he also uses it more than once during the Zeal scenes, but I've never seen anyone mention it before).  He calls her "aneue" (ah-neh-oo-eh), which is the single most formal, honorific term in the Japanese language for addressing your big sister.

In this scene, Maou ends his sentences with the particle 'na' a lot, with many periods that suggest he's sort of trailing off.  'Na' is a masculine, slangy form of 'ne', which is sort of like "right?" or "don't you think?", asking the listener for their agreement...  in these dialogues it's almost rhetorical, and makes him sound very contemplative.

He refers to both Chrono and Lavos as 'yatsu', which is a very rude 3rd person pronoun--you don't call somebody 'yatsu' if you have even a shred of respect for them (which is why he hesitates and changes to using Chrono's name in the last part of the scene, when he's trying to convince Kaeru and company to let him tag along).  I chose to translate it for Lavos as 'bastard', 'the thing', etc., and for Chrono used 'moron/idiot'...  this was mostly a stylistic decision; I did consider using "The f*cker's dead!" in one part, but I was trying to keep the mood consistent, and that's a considerably stronger word than 'idiot'.

Speaking of which, you will note there's no 'poor fool Crono' in my version.  I'm not sure where Woolsey got the 'poor' from, as that's a nuance that makes it almost seem like Magus pities or feels sympathy for Crono, and in the JP version he does no such thing.

One other interesting point to note is that Maou, while always speaking in slangy plain form and using rude pronouns for everybody (his standard "you guys/you all", 'omaetachi', is barely polite), the pronoun he uses for himself is the polite, standard 'watashi'.  With the way he normally speaks, you'd expect the more macho, arrogant pronoun 'ore'.  But he only uses that in one pivotal scene (which I believe has been discussed elsewhere...?)...

Kaeru's "Fuzakeru na/Don't mock us!" is actually pretty strong language in the JP version, but there's no good way to get it across and have it still sound like Kaeru (who certainly wouldn't resort to the kind of language Magus uses).  The pronoun he uses for Maou is 'kisama', which is pretty standard for the noble, heroic knight facing off against his hated enemy.  (Incidentally, Maou calls Lavos 'kisama' when he's facing him directly during the Ocean Palace scene.  The word doesn't necessarily have heroic connotations, but more like a very sarcastic "my honorable enemy".)

Lastly...
Quote
Maou: Are we gonna do it here and now......?     [note: yaru is a great verb.  Can mean 'do', 'kill', 'have sex'......]

This is my favorite line. ;3  </immature>  Seriously, though, I think it really capture's Maou's personality...

Radical_Dreamer

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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2004, 07:36:54 pm »
This is very interesting, thank you for posting it. Are the Japanese versions significantly different without Frog in the party? There are three versions in the American: With Frog, without Frog but with Marle, and without Frog or Marle.

Arc Impulse

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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2004, 10:48:31 pm »
I always take Frog to meet Magus, so I haven't actually looked into that.  ^_^;  I'll see about trying the different combinations soon, though.  (As soon as I feel like screenshotting five million text boxes again.  @_@  The scene above was about 50.)

Symmetry

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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2004, 10:54:25 pm »
Wow.

Things like this make me want to work at becoming a linguist.  :)