Poll

Do you like the Shakespearean English?

Yes, Woolsey's version of Frog's speech added element to Frog's character.
16 (50%)
The DS remake's version was better.
7 (21.9%)
Either is ok.
9 (28.1%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Author Topic: Frog's speech  (Read 6220 times)

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Frog's speech
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2010, 08:53:04 pm »
It's not. She's probably just joking for the fact Frog lacks the accent in the DS version.

Lennis

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Re: Frog's speech
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2010, 12:52:39 am »
OK.  I just looked at the DS translation notes to confirm what I've heard by word-of-mouth in the community.  Frog/Glenn really does lose something important in the new translation.  It's not as cringe-worthy as I feared, it just feels so... blah.  Noble Glenn deserves better.

Katie Skyye

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Re: Frog's speech
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2010, 12:40:55 pm »
Quote
Agreed. First he saves Lucca, and then he's all chivalrous about it... <3

Frog: Here, I've saved you. Be more careful in the future. Oh by the way, I'm coming with you!

Is that the actual line from the DS version?  :shock:  I've never played it, being a proud owner of the original cart and PS1 versions.  What a lack of personality and depth!  :x  Why would they change it into something worse?  I mean, that line is so bad it's going to give me nightmares tonight!

LOOOOOOOOOOL no! That was just a quick synopsis of hte scene! SD Sorry for the confusion!

BearFrog

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Re: Frog's speech
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2010, 02:37:20 pm »
Let's try and look at this from a different angle. I'm going to compare Frog to another belov'd character of RPG mythos:

This guy



Now, as you can recall, that's another character who is fairly memorable for his speaking patterns. It was the intent of the original creators for him to speak in a certain dialect, but imagine for a moment that the translating team decided that his style of speech didn't fit the character and made him speak in quasi-Shakespearian English.

We all have our views on the characters and nostalgia tends to play a part in it, but I prefer the Snes/PS1 translation of the character. I think making him, a Frog creature, more noble and chivalrous than the rest of humanity defined the character. I think that having him curse almost takes him a notch down, and I was liked that whole "noble" aspect of his character. His theme is positively epic and heroic and noble and I think fits that speech pattern better than what the original translation was meant to be. Does the original writing deserve to have its integrity kept intact? Yes. But, I feel like the changes made the character MORE memorable and added to the character rather than detracted from him.

Frog is actually my favorite character in the whole Chrono saga, and that particular translation has something to do with it. He's a true hero. Yeah, the dialect is botched, but I think that's all part of the wacky SNES RPG charm, back when they'd have stuff a little bit corny that was still awesome. So for me, I feel like Frog, if not speaking "Shakespeare's English", should at speak of higher nobility than the rest of the cast.

V_Translanka

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Re: Frog's speech
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2010, 08:50:35 pm »
"part of the wacky SNES RPG charm" is just seeing things through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses (patent pending). As Chrono Cross taught us, actions speak louder than accents. Frog isn't noble because we perceive a certain dialect (or in this case not even that) to mean class & dignity, but because of who he is as a character, how he grows and what he actually does. Since it IS nostalgia you're talking about than the opposite more than likely would have been just as true (if not more-so) : i.e. if his speech was originally translated more accurately/literally and then in a subsequent re-release they suddenly gave him a fake "Shakespearean" accent, surely people would say WTF kinda messed up ess is that!? Just look at DQIV DS...>_>

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Frog's speech
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2010, 05:53:49 pm »
I like DQIV DS, for the record.

I do understand your argument, but I don't agree that "wacky SNES charm" is "just rose-tinted nostalgia glasses".

You act as though nostalgia is a tainted thing that gives you leprosy and ebola, and as though anything considered memorable is actually just nostalgic, but this is not the case.

I submit that Frog's dialect was changed by Woolsey to further distance his personality from Magus. Frog as a "bad-ass mofo" speaking normally doesn't really solidify him in the mind as a chivalrous knight. And everything he says could just be flipped and turned into something Magus says instead. The creative choice made Frog seem like he held himself to higher ethical standards than most of the world thought necessary.

In the X-Men movie, the first one, Gambit was almost included in the cast of characters, but he was left out because his personality was too close to Wolverine and his powers would look too similar to Cyclops. This would have resulted in the core characters being less memorable of their own accord.

The CT:DS script tackles this problem by making just about everyone speak the same, causing all the dialogue to feel washed out like a photo with too much flash. This is arguable, but it is my opinion.

V_Translanka

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Re: Frog's speech
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2010, 07:26:25 pm »
I have nothing but respect for DQIV DS. The original stands as the best 8-Bit RPG alongside FFIII & the original Mother...but those accents they put in were beyond annoying and I'm glad they got rid of them for the subsequent DQ DS remakes.

No, I don't think nostalgia as simply memory is bad, but it represents an idealized memory. I don't think things should be judged based on altered perception. Since Chrono Trigger IS an older game now, it's something that's bound to happen, but it can stand on its own w/o nostalgia even though, or perhaps because, it is based around a strong sense of nostalgia & cliché in RPGs already.

I didn't really get "badass mofo" from the CTDS translation of Frog (perhaps because I only played through once and didn't use Frog much)...But I'm really more pro-literal anyway, so I more liked seeing him as completely selfless in his flashback when he wouldn't fight back because he has a deep empathy for others even as a child...

As for that Gambit thing...I remember hearing that and thinking it was a crock decision made by producers who had only casually glanced at who Remy LeBeau was...Oh, he has a romantic interest? Can't have that if we want to focus on the Jean triangle (which to me was really only that interesting in Ultimate because he bagged her so quickly. lol)...and only rarely do artists render his throwing of cards to be anything close to an optic blast...and he can do more than just throw charged cards. But w/e, I understand the need to cut the X-Roster w/o lame excuses like that...
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 07:30:01 pm by V_Translanka »

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Frog's speech
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2010, 08:04:44 pm »
...but those accents they put in were beyond annoying
:-) I thought it was quirky, kind of made me like the game more, but it REALLY made it more confusing.

Quote
No, I don't think nostalgia as simply memory is bad, but it represents an idealized memory. I don't think things should be judged based on altered perception. Since Chrono Trigger IS an older game now, it's something that's bound to happen, but it can stand on its own w/o nostalgia even though, or perhaps because, it is based around a strong sense of nostalgia & cliché in RPGs already.
Fair enough, given that the game is fifteen years old, nostalgia simply IS part of the equation. I just wanted to clarify the distinction between memorable characters and gimmicks that induce said nostalgia.

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I didn't really get "badass mofo" from the CTDS translation of Frog
I didn't get "badass mofo" from the CTDS translation either. But that's more of what the Compendium translation and CE portray, which makes him as a character thematically more like Magus. The dynamic between the characters is interesting, because despite their very obvious differences, and the fact that they're rivals, they really have a lot in common, but that's besides the point.

What I got from the DS version was more watered down and... I don't know... polite? boring? I'm sure there's a better word.


Quote
As for that Gambit thing...I remember hearing that and thinking it was a crock decision made by producers who had only casually glanced at who Remy LeBeau was...
...and only rarely do artists render his throwing of cards to be anything close to an optic blast...and he can do more than just throw charged cards.
He was the only one I wanted to see (on film) anyway, and they made Cyclops such a bitch that they may as well have just cut him instead. I would have loved to see a little Gambit/Wolverine/Rogue semi-triangle going on like in the old cartoon series but the decision didn't destroy the movie. I did not like what they did to him in the Origins movie, but again, it wasn't so bad that I wouldn't watch it.