Author Topic: gasp...Plot revision?  (Read 869 times)

nightmare975

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2006, 01:34:10 am »
Opassa Beach and the rest of El Nido didn't exist yet.

Then perhaps another beach? It's just that I really had liked the original idea of fighting King Zeal in Opassa Beach, that's why I said it.

The rest of my idea was to alude to Chrono Break and make Gasper the main Guru for it.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 01:46:06 am by nightmare975 »

Chrono'99

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2006, 12:43:34 pm »
I'm not sure where cells and primeval organic matters first appeared, was it in the sea? If yes, we could present the Dreamstone as being formed near underwater volcanoes, at those particular places where sunlight is totally absent yet life is maintained by hydrothermal energy. Some scientific theories go as far as claiming life actually first appeared in those places (some even say metabolism predated genetics). Anyway, this wouldn't be that hard to present ingame: night command like in Hunting Range + some layer3 lava + a Gate command to simulate a magic air bubble around the party, since they have to breath.

...of course, if there's some interesting primeval organic matter that forms on the surface, it would be simplier to use. Thematically, the underwater situation is more interesting though. It allows for a subtle allusion/transition to the marine atmosphere of Chrono Cross, while we still get one last shot of CE fiery atmosphere with the final battle. We even preserve the Black Omen/Terra Tower tradition too, except it's not a mere rehash since we're going straight down the ocean instead of up in the sky (ehe). I suppose a small beach map reminiscent of Opassa can also precede the "dive in the ocean" scene, if we can find or create a layer3 that looks like water at the seashore. The actual dungeon may or may not be ocean-themed though, because we can't keep the air bubble effect in battles.

Apart from that, I think a disturbing point is Belthasar telling the party to destroy the rock/organism. It seems very... hazardous. Belthasar is personally risking his own life, the party risks screwing the entire world as they know it, and the similar rock/organism that they carry couldn't repair their action: it's either tainted by Lavos, or in all probability it's too different than the original stuff anyhow. I suppose it doesn't change much if the Entity answers the party at the first call (or second one, or third, but really a call not an aggression)? Or we could have Doreen be the one that allows the party to feel and communicate with the Entity. It's an ability that she can reasonably possess.

As for Gaspar... his fate relative to the Entity could be left ambiguous. He could depart in a time Gate during the ending goodbyes, like Magus in CT, with Marle or someone asking a question that he'll answer cryptically. The Entity's alignment in CC may seem a little equivocal, so whether Gaspar is part of the Entity during Project Kid may be left in a similar ambiguity.

Oh and, still who would be the boss of that Entity dungeon? or would there be none?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 12:55:43 pm by Chrono'99 »

ZeaLitY

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2006, 01:24:23 pm »
kay, Doreen sounds good. As for the boss, I'm still not sure. Maybe...it would be a new Gaia, since the planet is testing Crono. We could affix an SI unit like "Exa" to its name or create something entirely new.

nightmare975

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2006, 09:01:49 pm »
I'm wondering, do you guys think up of the Chrono Break's abillity or did SE? Because I started to think, what if the CB just had the abillity to manipulate time to go a certain direction? Gasper, or who ever we want to have the CB, uses it to cause the fall of Guardia among other things. It could be a cruel way of ending Crimson Echoes. Showing one of the Guru's betraying the heroes for the safety of Schala. Or Dalton could complete it and after the battle, and before he dies, he uses it, but of course, that event hasn't happened yet, so our heroes don't feel that effects yet. And then, as Guardia is destroyed, they realize it.

But if that's the way SE made it, then just ignore my idea.

ZeaLitY

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2006, 01:21:09 pm »
We have no idea what the CB is capable of. In the game, I sort of wanted to refer to it as something unbelievably destructive or negative in the scope of time (thus, the "break" name). Since it was Masato Kato's idea, I guess we're sort of leaving its function up to him (if he ever gets to make a new game). Nonetheless, the Gurus refer to it as pretty serious stuff.

Is the Entity dungeon sounding good in its present form?

Chrono'99

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2006, 02:27:28 pm »
It's good in itself but we'll have to make sure that the dungeon's exotism isn't too similar in "weirdness" to the DBT.

I guess the boss could be a Rainbow nautilus, or its non blown-up non colored ancestor, whatever is graphically feasible. It depends how we can spread his graphics between a tileset and his actual spriteset, like Giga Gaia or Lavos's second form.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2006, 02:29:07 pm by Chrono'99 »

ZeaLitY

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2006, 04:23:44 pm »
Okay. Well, we can make it underwater (at least for planning it right now). Chrono Trigger never quite had an underwater venture. I'm not sure what tileset we could rewrite or anything like that...I suppose this will need some planning. I wonder if there are any tilesets we definitely have NOT used in CE so far and probably won't use.

Anyway, let's get the ball rolling on this. I'm so excited...how do you suggest we begin? I can help as needed by taking the ROM and modifying it myself or adding dialogue. For the fetch quest at the beginning, since it's already there, maybe we should just make it optional. You'd get an item and new players might use it to explore 1000 A.D. or do perfectionist playthroughs.

Chrono'99

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2006, 07:47:45 pm »
There are quite a few tilesets we don't currently use, like the Tribunal and the Prison (this one counts for 3: interior, exterior, "catwalks"), but yes, we'll need to plan how many new ones we need/we can have. This would be useful for the sprites too. There are so much NPCs or enemies we could make: Porre PVT, Porre SGT, William, the Cyborg, 1 A.D. soldiers, etc., but replaceable sprites are rather scarce...

I guess I'll start modifying the first chapters, I was already on a trip to polish everything I can so I guess I'll modify the beginnings again and relatively quickly. In the meantime, I believe "Murmurs of Red" is the chapter that would need your attention most, especially for dialogues since it's one of the coded chapters that will change most... I'm totally not good at writing them, and since I'm not an English native-speaker I can't even realize if what I write is good or not. So you could start revising that part, while I do the early chapters, and we'll catch up to see if some memflags have to be readjusted between the two parts. At some point then or later Jsondag will hopefully rejoin and then it will go even faster with all the simultaneous coding.

Also, tomorrow, I'll post some ideas more about gameplay than the big plot, like removing Guardia Forest (totally useless in CT:CE) and creating a small Fiona's Forest map instead (to block access to Porre when needed, and maybe throw in some side-quests or something).
« Last Edit: October 11, 2006, 07:50:21 pm by Chrono'99 »

ZeaLitY

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2006, 07:49:57 pm »
Okay. For onw, I'll write all the dialogue for that chapter. I'm a little concerned about event coding import / export because I've had bad experiences in the past.

ZeaLitY

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Re: *gasp* ...Plot revision?
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2006, 01:35:52 pm »
I'll sticky this thread and add what we've discussed to your outline (I won't change anything else). The old one will be un-stickied. Then I'll brainstorm what kind of locations we'll need and we can rule out unnecessary tilesets.

ZeaLitY

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Re: gasp...Plot revision?
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2006, 03:42:38 pm »
Preserving the last ineration of the plot here before I add stuff we've discussed in the other thread:

Before the game

  • DBT - Lavos remains partly alive and connected to the Frozen Flame.
  • 2302 - Belthasar comes to the future and builds Chronopolis without the knowledge of any government.
  • 2302 - Belthasar uses the Frozen Flame, its generator, and a Time Egg to resurrect friends and others. However, the effort to save King Zeal backfires; he loses control of the King, who falls into Lavos's Pocket Dimension with the Flame and Time Egg.
  • 2302 - King Zeal takes interest in Crono and his friends, and his mind is 10% controlled by Lavos.
  • 2302 - King Zeal gives Porre military certain advanced technology to amuse himself concerning the heroes.
  • 2302 - Belthasar drafts a plan to activate the old team if he cannot recover the artifacts.

Prologue

  • 1002 - The Porre cyborg program releases its first candidate, and sends him on a test run to assassinate the Chancellor. Ingrus doesn't die but is just incapacitated by Crono and given to a guard. Lucca's prototype Time Egg backfires, sending the party to Chronopolis.

Chapter One: Legacy of the Enlightened

  • 11999 (one year after CT) - Due to fatigue accumulated after an entire year of doing nothing but searching Schala (no sleep, no food, no drink... well, just a little I guess), Magus faints. He basically let himself die for a year.
  • 11999 - Dalton continues searching for power and immortality. The Elder is hurt but not dead (Sargon can heal him). Magus shadows Dalton but is still weak and is defeated, because Dalton has found some Zealian artifact in Beast Forest. Emphasis is put on the fact that Magus is much weaker than he should be. Magus is locked in stasis; he retains a dreamlike consciousness and begins reflecting on his life.

Chapter Two: Double Trouble

Chronopolis must be a location kept hidden by Belthasar from the outside world: it's funded by no governement. My reasoning is that in CC, time travel was never achieved by Chronopolis, but in CT:CE the place already has Dispatch Chamber, Temporal Catch, KRS device, etc. Governments would be tempted to do crazy things with Belthasar's time travel technology if they were aware of it... so they're not. Belthasar is capable of building the thing alone with only a few trustful colleagues (he did build Keeper's Dome alone in CT).

The Time Dispatch Chamber can send people in any year (not day). However, the Temporal Catch can only bring those people back if it can focus on a time Gate that already exists. Thus, Belthasar could send the party anywhere in time, but he just couldn't bring them back, so they will only work with "Entity eras" (CT eras +2 years).

  • 2302 - Belthasar greets Crono and friends. The Porre agent uses the Gate created at Denadoro to follow them to the future (using a Gate Key given by King Zeal). The Gate is not permanent but still lasts enough time to allow that.
  • 2302 - CML actually see the agent downloading information and entering the TDC. CML try to capture him and enter the TDC; they all travel back to 1002 at the same time (if the agent traveled first and the party later, there would be a paradox similar to the Telepod one in CT).
  • 1002 (normal date, not 2 days before) - CML and the agent fight; the agent escapes with his super-speed again.
  • 1002 - The agent gives Porre an engine for the Chimera tank. Porre attacks Guardia, CML fight off the invasion and go back to Chronopolis. They use the Denadoro Gate (yes, still there), because gaining the Epoch so early and having access to all the eras is kind of spoiling.
  • 2302 - King Zeal releases Zealots in Chronopolis to test it; CML defeat them as well.

Chapter Three: Beneath the Azure Sea

The "Let's regroup the old party" plot device has been reported as a bit unnatural in the feedback thread. I think the guy makes a very valid point: that the characters join for no true reason, almost like the CC characters (Mamacha...). If we can just swap a few sequences, I think this plot device could be better justified.

  • 2302 - Belthasar says the invaders were from the same type as the Ocean Palace ones. He sends the party to 11,998 BC (on the land!) to investigate. They have to find a way to explore the ocean floor alone though. Fortunately, they find Magus and release him. He can easily teleport them inside the OP ruins. As you can see, the change is that Belthasar didn't know about Magus's whereabouts (no Temporal Catch, no PD, no crystal ball, so history books should be his only source of historical infos, or he'd know about King Zeal's whereabouts else).
  • 11998 - The party finds Schala and King Zeal. Magus is quite confused to find his sister now even though he had already visited the OP about a year ago. King Zeal actually just ressurected her, and took the Masamune too (!); he escapes. Yes, this "past" Masamune can time travel, for the same reason that Kid's pendant can (according to this link anyway).

Chapter Four: Murmurs of Red

I came to think about a version of this chapter quite different than the current one... but it's more about adding texts and a few tweaks than recoding everything, so I hope it's feasible.

King Zeal's theft of the Masamune can hopefully give a reason for Glenn to rejoin the heroes... In 2,302 AD, the party discusses about the Masamune's disappearance and concludes that it must have changed the events of the Mystic War. Since Belthasar isn't a time traveler, the "original" events never happened for him, he tells the party the history according to "his" timeline: things played out mostly the same way in the early years of the war, except Cyrus was just a talented soldier, not "the legendary Hero", and Frog never returned to the kingdom. Chivalry and knighthood is also less prevalent. Without Frog's wise counsels and without the link to the honor code that the Masamune represents, the Guardians continued the war in 600 AD even after Magus's disappearance. The Mystics, forced to keep on fighting, were reunited by Serran. The party then realizes that the original Glenn (the time traveler) must find himself in a strange world... so Belthasar sends them to 602 AD to meet him.

  • 602 - Glenn tells the party he's ohh so glad they finally came to visit him... He founded the Vanguard to try to restor honor but it's not enough. He tells them about a great battle which is going to take place in the Dorino Plains, and goes with Crono to settle things.
  • 602 - Glenn meets and tries to fight Serran, who flees.
  • 602 - Glenn settles the conflict and travels to Chronopolis.
  • 602 - King Zeal immediately takes interest in Serran and brings him to the Pocket Dimension.

Chapter Five: Return to Prodigiousness

This chapter, whether in this version of the plot or the original version, needs to better flow with the rest. I think I may have a good "reason" for it to fit and exist: with all the activity and tensions that the Chronopolis complex suffered, the Dreamstone shard is starting to get totally deprived of sufficient energy. Belthasar decides he needs a better shard, something more reliable (not just another Dreamstone). Thus:

  • 2302 - Belthasar notes that he needs information in Zeal (concerning Dreamstone, Frozen Flame, and other interesting rocks). He tells the party that he won't be able to bring them back to Chronopolis directly (there's no Gate in 12,000 BC "anymore"), so they'll have to find Gaspar's Time Egg also and break it to create a temporary Gate for the Temporal Catch to focus on.
  • 2302 - Belthasar additionally wants to see if King Zeal has been at Zeal. Belthasar doesn't know this for the same reason that he didn't know where Magus was.
  • 12000 - Crono recovers the data and the Time Egg and avoids a patrol by Dalton, returning the data to Belthasar.
  • 2302 - It's only then that Crono's party (as well as the player!) realizes that they first appeared in Chronopolis when they broke Lucca's Time Egg... They wonder if Belthasar had made them come intentionally, and if he's hiding something from them concerning the origin of King Zeal's "sudden" appearance.

Chapter Six: Awaken to the Eruption

Note: A short and rough explanation of the Pocket Dimension principle could be put somewhere in this chapter or the previous one (in the notes?). This principle relative to Lavos must be explained somewhere before what follows in any case, because this is mandatory to understand King Zeal's mistake, and because the player didn't necessarily read about it on the Compendium before playing the game.

Well... if you're thinking "what the hell happened to Singing Mt among all those changes?", it was pushed back but I think this chapter is the best place for it, it goes perfectly well as a build-up to the Atash Kedah scene and the Reptite world introduction.

  • 2302 - Having recovered his notes, Belthasar decides that the Dragoon Tooth is the perfect thing they need to power Chronopolis. He sends the party to Prehistory (still no Epoch... I think).
  • 649999998 - Reptites are still alive and well. They're starting to go on the decline, but if they can survive 65 millions of years of "warm" Ice Age, they can surely survive 2 tiny years of an Ice Age that has just begun, can't they?
  • 64999998 - Crono rescues Ayla and steals the Dragoon Tooth from the Reptites, an enriched piece of Dreamstone. Could we make this piece a terrestrial Dreamstone instead of a piece of Lavos shell? It could be an artifact of the same "type" as the Sun Stone or the Rainbow Shell. I think having another piece of Lavos shell (with the Frozen Flame) is a bit redundant, and it sort of diminishes the aura and pride of the Reptite civilisation.
  • 64999998 - Immediately, the party and Ayla discovers King Zeal. King Zeal has been at Zeal, and erroneously deduces that if he can destroy Lavos in prehistory, he can prevent the eruption. He is 50% under Lavos's control, still unaware of it.
  • 64999998 - Lavos is actually hoping King Zeal will severely disrupt the timeline, eliminating Chronopolis and making the time travelers stick out like sore thumbs in a new world for easy collection and elimination... but the player doesn't necessarily realizes that.
  • 64999998 - Crono rushes to the scene to find Ayla wounded. King Zeal explains he is attempting a huge spell that will have severe environmental consequences, primarily resulting in a warmer Ice Age. To make things more climactic, some Reptites are present too. They watch King Zeal indirectly giving them a new destiny as the human party is whacked (well they get whacked too but they're happy for the rest of their species)...
  • 64999998 - The party fails to stop King Zeal (and to explain him the PD principle in less than 30 seconds!), and the Frozen Flame dispenses them across the new timeline in which the Reptites have survived.

Chapter Seven: An Emerald Dream (part 1)

The three Xamoltan time travelers are all from 1999 (or 2001?) since time travel, whether Reptite or Human, can be mastered only in the future. They're very strong too, because they were more or less part of the Frozen Flame's plan to eradicate Crono's party, and when the Frozen Flame wants something, it really wants it.

  • 1 - Marle realizes the year corresponds to her 1 AD, but it's actually "???" for everyone else since the Guardia Kingdom Calendar doesn't exist.
  • 1 - Marle awakes to find her ancestors, still sharing the planet with Reptites, but threatened by them at Terra Tower. Cedric is just an ordinary Cedric, not a "Guardia" and not carrying a pendant. His mere existence in any form or shape is a miracle considering all the changes in the timeline, but we did say his mother was an Angel, so this MAY explain it (we mention it but don't have to expand more though, no need for a new Chrono Testament...).
  • 1 - Marle locates Terra Tower and decides to explore it, hoping to find her friends or some magical device.
  • 1 - Marle is trapped by surprise by a Xamoltan time traveler, Cakulha, coming from 1999 (or 2001?), and dies.

Chapter Eight: An Emerald Dream (part 2) (this needs a distinct title)

I consider "An Emerald Dream" as three chapters... it doesn't really change much, but makes it seem more grandiose.

  • 1999 - Lucca and Robo arrive to find themselves in the midst of robots.
  • 1999 - The robots wish to secede from Reptite control, and enlist the two to destroy an intelligence facility where a non-Maverick AI is being developed to stop the robot rebellion. Lucca notes that with the Frozen Flame taint, Reptites are as nocive to the planet as the humans...
  • 1999 - In exchange, the robots give Lucca and Robo access to Terra Tower, noting that destroying the Vision Serpent will cripple the Reptites for good. They learn about Cakulha, Coyopa, and Yaluk, but never meet them as they seem to have already gone in time.
  • 1999 - Lucca and Robo destroy the Vision Serpent, a prototype Dragon God (this relation is hinted, not stated of course). They can't go back in time since the portal too was destroyed, but this cripples the Reptites, allowing the robots to rule. Lucca and Robo seemingly enjoy living with the robots, and hope to develop a way back in time.
  • 1999 - Lucca also questions herself about the possibility of creating cyborgs to unify robots and biological beings, but she quickly dismiss the idea (later, her yet-to-be-friend Luccia won't dismiss it...).

Chapter Nine: An Emerald Dream (part 3) (this needs a distinct title)

  • 1002 - Crono, Magus, and Glenn arrive in a forest. They head up a little and find a village (all one map) and Terra Tower, where a traveler blocks the entrance but is cordial.
  • 1002 - They see Reptites doing a strongman contest. They battle a few and win, earning a dinner with the time travelers.
  • 1002 - The two travelers explain their history and ask where the others came from; they say outer space.
  • 1002 - The party get elemental armor from a group who do not trust the new time travelers.
  • 1002 - They go to Terra Tower, and Magus detects a massive accumulation at the top of Terra Tower, and they break in.
  • 1002 - Crono sees Marle's skeleton in a cell with the pendant and immediately kills two Reptites trying to reason with him.
  • 1002 - King Zeal comes in and notifies the Xamoltan time traveler who is present, Coyopa, that Crono, Magus, and Glenn must also be apprehended, and that they're trying to disrupt Reptite civilization.
  • 1002 - Crono and the others kill Coyopa and use the portal to return to 64999998 B.C.

Chapter Ten: The Stain of Regency

  • 64999998 - Crono, Magus, and Glenn burst in to the crater to find King Zeal has sunken deep underground to unleash the spell.
  • 64999998 - They must choose once more to save Ayla or attack Zeal. A few battles happen.
  • 64999998 - Magus and Glenn are held back by a Light barrier, but Crono, being Light innate, is able to go through and knock King Zeal to the ground, disrupting the spell.
  • 64999998 - Magus and Glenn join Crono to try and finish him off. King Zeal leaves, but notes that the spell will partly finish, and hopes they enjoy the fire. Magus, Glenn, and Crono are severely wounded before they can escape.

Chapter Eleven: (The Founding of Guardia)

I'm putting the Antaeus boss battle back (with a slight variation). As such it becomes a distinct chapter. As always, comments, critics, and objections if necessary are welcome. Graphicwise, Antaeus may fit as an Omnicrone retooled to have a better face.

  • 1 - The screen cuts here, where Marle is sleeping in a bed in a stone room. Cedric wakes her and they ride out to battle to find Antaeus. This time Cedric is truely "Cedric Guardia the Executor", a brutal conqueror, not the polite and ordinary "Cedric" of the Reptite timeline.
  • 1 - Due to Marle's presence during the battle, the events are altered: Marle does something not very wise that draws the warriors' attention where it shouldn't have. The consequence is that Antaeus steals the Frozen Flame before Cedric can use it. Antaeus's body is charged with energy and he utters the already famous sentences:
  • "A thousand fires have sparked within my mind! I see everything! I know all! And I know this: you must perish!"
  • 1 - Marle realizes what she's just done and has to fight Antaeus in Cedric's place. This is a very tough battle, and an interesting challenge battlewise (single Marle vs. a powerhouse).
  • 1 - Marle defeats Antaeus, Cedric grabs the Frozen Flame back and the Porreans surrender. A Chronopolis agent locates Marle and takes her back. Since they have recovered the Dragoon Tooth, the Temporal Catch can indeed do that (no need for an existent Gate).
  • 2302 - Marle finds Crono, Magus, and Glenn bedridden. She talks to Crono. (Because of what will follow in this plot outline, there is no four-week ellipse, it's direct.)
  • 2302 - Lucca and Robo arrive. Schala is busy tending to Ayla in prehistory. Belthasar explains to the party that a Reptite called Cakulha is causing some crisis on Zenan mainland.

Chapter Twelve: (this is a bit of Zeality's "The Gray Forgotten" and Hadriel's "Vanguard Apocalypse")

The game heavily focuses on "the past", but this chapter is a good excuse to show a bit of "the future". We can't show a lot because of the graphic limitations, but a building that uses the Chronopolis tileset could be enough (especially the "sewer" part, which Chronopolis doesn't use).

  • 2302 - Cakulha made his way to the future thanks to King Zeal and allied with... robots. As he couldn't find the party and Chronopolis, he has acquired missiles and plans to blow up some major cities if the governments don't tell him where Chronopolis is. The problem is, nobody in the future mainland knows what Chronopolis is...
  • 2302 - As they progress inside Cakulha's lair, the party is questioned by Cakulha at distance, with a series of questions that hurt: did they have the right to destroy his world? what morals apply to time travel? Since this ethical topic is thorny and we can't give a definite answer, the conclusion will be Cakulha's, not the party's (i.e. probably not a good conclusion). The answers given to the numerous questions eventually lead to one of these 3 conclusions:
  • 1. "I don't really exist, I'm just an echo of the Frozen Flame (a crimson echo?)": Cakulha teleports the party and the robots outside and blow up his own building... he committed suicide.
  • 2. "So, I guess it's the survival of the fittest": the party must defeat Cakulha in battle.
  • 3. "We were all manipulated by Lavos, the real destroyer of worlds": Cakulha leaves the place and goes to fight King Zeal (he will die off-screen).

The first path is the easiest and gives normal rewards. The second path gives more EXP and some unique weapon or armor, while the third path gives more GP and consumable items. Either way, the party don't feel like killing all the robots (among them is Proto 5-02C, anyone remember that guy from the master plot thread?). Those robots now know about the existence of Chronopolis and knowledge of it quickly spread on the mainland. Nobody actually takes them seriously, except the Vanguard, now a corrupted organization who would really like to assume control of the Time Fortress...

Chapter Thirteen: (Animal-like Persistence)

The party is saddened by Cakulha's fate, whatever it is, but Belthasar is just upset about the robots and the Vanguard searching the oceans for Chronopolis. He tells the party that now is the good time to recover the Epoch (finally!) as well as remaining ultimate equipments from CT, just in case Chronopolis would be found and taken over. We're not bringing all the former ultimate equipments back of course, but the Green Dream for example, and perhaps the Elemental armors, would be fine and useful I think.

  • 1002 - The party recover the Epoch and equipments in the Cathedral and immediately decide to go visit Ayla.
  • 64999998 - The party find Ayla wounded, but alive. Things are back to normal in prehistory.
  • 64999998 - ...actually, are they? NPCs speak about a new leader among the Reptites. The party realize that the Xamoltans were three: Coyopa (killed in 1002), Cakulha (seen in 1 AD and taken care of in 2302), and Yaluk, the female leader whose fate is unknown.
  • 64999998 - Somewhere (Singing Mt or a new location), the party meet with the Reptites. Yaluk is indeed here, but reveals she doesn't want to fight. She ceased to obey King Zeal and plans to just live peacefully with the remaining Reptites, away from the humans, until her species die out (after her lifetime anyway). She dreams of a world in which Lavos never falls and the Reptites can leave in harmony with nature... but it's just a dream, isn't it? The party reveals her Cakulha's fate, but Yaluk's decision doesn't change in any case.
  • 64999998 - After all those emotional moments, I suppose something less distressing is gladly welcome by the player: a strong and stupid Ioka man challenges Ayla to be chief of Ioka, citing her incapacitation as weakness. He challenges her to a game of getting the most animal hides off a tall mountain.
  • 64999998 - Ayla obviously cannot participate, but Glenn steps up to the challenge, comedically scampering around to get more hides than the other guy.
  • 64999998 - That night, Magus and Schala reflect on King Zeal. Schala reveals her sorrow, her feeling that back in the Ocean Palace when she woke up Lavos, she ultimately caused everything bad that happened since then and is in a way the actual responsible for every life that was suppressed because of it.

Chapter Fourteen: The Glare of Midnight...

In Chronopolis, Belthasar thought he could handle the situation with the robots and Vanguard, but he can't handle it any longer. He's a bit upset that the party went to visit Ayla instead of hurrying to Chronopolis. Some tension between Belthasar and the party begins to clearly appear. Belthasar decides to clean up the timeline: if the party recover the "past" Masamune and put it back somewhere in 1 AD (for convenience), the Mystic War will revert back to its original state and the Vanguard will cease to exist to annoy Chronopolis. Belthasar reveals that King Zeal had given it to Serran in 602 AD after their first encounter (he put Masa and Mune to sleep too, but the sword isn't corrupted).

Note: Ozzie, Slash and Flea were actually never called "Mystic warriors" in canon, just "mystical knights". Not really the most important point but I thought I'd mention it.

  • 602 - The party arrive to find Zenan set back by fighting which recently subsided. They hear that the attack was, at the last minute, led by Ozzie, Slash, and Flea, and that the Mystics have since retreated.
  • 602 - As the party arrive in Medina, Serran gives the clear for the Mystic genocide. Ozzie, Slash, and Flea spread to the three settlements to stop them.
  • 602 - The invasion is repelled and everyone meets at the entrance to the dungeon. The Mystic warriors and Magus break through, and the two groups split up.
  • 602 - They reach Serran, but realize that Porre just sent humans there as a reprisal. They know the humans will be massacred. The Mystic warriors volunteer to stop Serran if the others will save their kind.
  • 602 - King Zeal arrives and punts the Mystic warriors outside the fortress. He tells Serran that he needs his Mystics for a task, and leaves Serran behind, who promptly escapes the back way.
  • 602 - Crono finds the Porreans dead and returns to find everyone else gone. They decide to go to 1002 to see if anything has changed.

Chapter Fifteen: ...And the Darkness of Noon

  • 1002 - Conditions are horrible now that the Mystics have grown close to Porre after several of them were martyred while trying to stop Serran.
  • 1002 - King Guardia and the Vanguard are staging a last ditch meeting with Porre-Medina to smooth things over.
  • 1002 - Crono decides to attend instead of returning to 602 since the meeting is taking place immediately.
  • 1002 - While at the meeting, Guardia Castle comes under attack from Mystics unleashed by King Zeal. The Vanguard seal the meeting room while Crono and the others rumble in the castle.
  • 1002 - Crono makes it up to the top tower, where he finds the portal and someone gets rid of it. He returns to the throne room to find King Guardia crawling to the throne. Marle rushes in, and he collapses and dies.
  • 1002 - King Zeal appears behind them on the throne of Guardia. Marle takes a shot at him, but he disappears. The Vanguard and guards get things under control.

  • 602 - The heroes arrive, and speak to the Mystic Warriors. They note that King Zeal knocked them out and left Serran hanging, but they can't find him. They did find the Masamune though. Being dumb, they don't realize its power and agree to offer it to the party. Past Masa and Mune awake and say something to their present counterparts.
  • 602 - The heroes ask the Mystic Warriors to lead Medina again on the condition that they'll root out the love for Porre and not pull any trick like before.
  • 1 - Belthasar sends the party to the human 1 AD. Glenn puts the past Masamune in some mountain in the wild. The party mention in passing that a Glenn fighting with two legendary swords would have been awesome. From this chapter on, 1 AD can be visited freely using the TDC (good opportunity to expand it with background and side-quests).
  • 2302 - Melchior ponders about how a legendary weapon can elevate people's ideals so much... while it could also perverse other people's or even the same people's consciences, at the same time.

Chapter Sixteen: (Stop the Porre Lab)

With the Masamune in history, 602 AD now returns to peace, but King Guardia in 1002 is still dead since this was caused by King Zeal. The fact that Belthasar doesn't let Marle use the TDC to revive her father is justified by the robots/Vanguard "incident". Again, Belthasar doesn't have TTI, so he doesn't know the Vanguard, but the incident still happened with the robots (allowing for the Proto 5-02C side-quest later).

This chapter was a side-quest but I think the plot is amplified by having it mandatory, especially if the Porre cyborg is involved. He effectively introduced the game events, so he needs to "return" into the plot somehow, doesn't he?

  • 2302 - The party return to Chronopolis, where Marle argues with Belthasar about saving her father's life. Belthasar reveals that he was soon to die anyway. He tells the party they can rest or return to the present while he's trying to locate King Zeal. The party feel like they should check Medina 1002 after all that happened.
  • 1002 - Hutch tells them Toma XIII has gone missing. The party search at the sealed pyramid and find the door to something. However, they can't open it, and Hutch is worried about Toma. The party decide to go see the first Toma.
  • 1002 - They bring him to 1002 A.D. with the Temporal Catch (this might seem trivial, but it's because they would end up in the End of Time if they'd use the Epoch), and he opens it up. They enter and go down a few hallways to find a Porre lab conducting experiments on Mystics. The lead researchers are Luccia's parents; she's there as a 10 year old kid along with her older brother (the man who would create Grobyc in CC). Anyway, they're trying to infuse humans with magic, and create monstrosities as a result. Toma attempts to bust out his descendant as the party fight some of their creations. (Wild idea: photoshop the CT monster "Mutant" to make him look like a CC monster "Neo-N-Bulb": they already look a bit alike.)
  • 1002 - They eventually find Luccia and her parents, who confirm that these ruins belonged to some weird civilization. The boss and the Porre cyborg (remember, Ingrus's pal) come out and trample her parents. The party defeat the boss and the cyborg. Before dying, Luccia's parents tell her and his brother to finish their research and complete a new cyborg (the first Porre cyborg was completed only thanks to King Zeal's help).
  • 1002 - The party set bombs to demolish the place to limit knowledge of Zeal. They take Luccia and her brother outside with the Tomas, who have an interesting scene together. William Ishito shows up and remarks that Porre might form a Black Wind unit to replace the losses there, and that he'll join it to make sure things don't get out of hand. His 8 year old brother Norris is with him and notes that he'll join too, as he wants to be a hero. Ishito shrugs it off, and Toma goes to check out his museum before returning to 602 A.D.

Chapter Seventeen: From the Mirror World

Belthasar can't locate King Zeal, but has found another plan.

  • 2302 - Belthasar acknowledges the tremendous influence of King Zeal and tells the party to search for Gaspar at the End of Time to help him and Melchior build a Chrono Break. The CB was an experiment of the 3 Gurus, which was never originally completed as it was judged too dangerous.
  • End of Time - The party arrive to find Spekkio, who notes that Gaspar went back billions of years to find the birth of the Entity. Spekkio can take them there if they like... actually no, he'll take them there only if they can defeat him in battle.
  • 500000000 - The party find Gaspar camping out near a plant colony. He goes on about the planet being alive, and the party explain what happened and ask for his assistance. Gaspar denies it, and is angry at Belthasar, noting that the planet must be upset by all those lifes lost, especially the Reptite ones.
  • 2302 - Gaspar arrives and severely lambasts Belthasar, and it is revealed that it was Belthasar who revived King Zeal. Belthasar notes that he's trying to make it right, but Gaspar spares nothing. Melchior tries to calm down the two sides.
  • 2302 - To complete the Chrono Break, the Gurus need some stuff which should be lying somewhere in 11,998 BC... in Dalton's hands.

Chapter Eighteen: (Dalton's Last Stand)

Like the Porre cyborg, Dalton kind of opened up the game's story, so he probably deserves some conclusion that isn't in the form of a side-quest.

  • 11998 - Along with his Lashers, Dalton has "convinced" some Mystics to serve him.
  • 11998 - You must go through an icy lake dungeon. Magus must attend. They find Dalton in a cove, and locate Zeal ruins. He notes that he has finally completed his machine to guarantee him immortality by taking him to a strange and interesting place. Magus notes that he can't let Dalton do that, and Dalton calls him out concerning moral ambiguity. Dalton asks him what the difference is between his carving out an empire and the cavorting around time Magus has done. He then insults Magus's sister, and Magus battles him. Magus pauses for a second. This is a major step into his change to the Magil archetype, in which Magus is a cool guy.
  • 11998 - The party recover whatever items the Gurus needed (I'm not sure what exactly, it's open to discussion like everything else), and bring them to Chronopolis.

Chapter Nineteen: Once More Unto the Breach

This chapter is a strong opportunity to demonstrate Belthasar's philosophy that the end justifies the means, as well as the actual unreliability of Crono's party. Ultimately, this will show why Belthasar didn't work with most of them in Chrono Cross...

  • 64999998 - Ayla, if the party decided to stop King Zeal, heals.
  • 2302 - The 3 Gurus complete the Chrono Break.
  • 2302 - Belthasar, flabbergasted, suggests the party strike at the Frozen Flame to lure King Zeal out for battle. He notes that in a few days, it will be one year exactly since the Ocean Palace incident, and that the party can strike at the Frozen Flame -- inside the Mammon Machine -- in the interim period between the Ocean Palace's destruction and the creation of the Black Omen.
  • 2302 - Belthasar notes that Schala must be present to allow the party to get close to the Frozen Flame. Magus objects but relents after being told that this will give him a shot to kill his father. Once the Mammon Machine is exposed, Glenn will use his Masamune on it. Whereas the Red Knife failed, the full sword should do the trick.
  • 2302 - Striking the past Frozen Flame actually has more consequences than it seems: if the party would succeed in destroying the Flame, Guardia would simply disappear from history, as Antaeus would easily butcher a Flame-less Cedric! In that scenario, past Marle might still defeat Antaeus anyway, but Guardia might not dominate over the other tribes on the long term. The risk must be taken according to Belthasar, who slightly hints towards the fact that Chronopolis would still exist in a Porre dominant world anyway; moreover, he reminds the party that they already destroyed one world, the Reptite one, and that they must not have remorse in destroying another one... because it is necessary. The party, as well as Melchior and Gaspar, are in a dilemma, and this is more or less why the assault is a failure: the party don't totally intend to destroy the Flame, but rather to "poke" it to lure King Zeal out.
  • 12000 - The party arrive to find a strange Ocean Palace. It is filled with certain monsters and Zealians. They get to the throne room and find the Mammon Machine.
  • 12000 - Glenn plunges the Masamune in the machine. To protect itself, the Flame discards the Mammon Machine into the Darkness Beyond Time, and the Masamune flashes to its "evil branch" form for one second or so. Schala falls in the distortion before it closes. King Zeal feels the attack and arrives with his Frozen Flame. He explains that destroying the old copy wouldn't have hurted him anyway, and thanks the party for coming to him.
  • 12000 - King Zeal is temporarily stunned to learn that Schala has been sucked in, and Glenn slashes him with the Masamune. He goes into a stasis, leaving his Frozen Flame uncovered. The party (absolutely all members) approach it.

Note: I don't know where the Chrono Break fitted in this scene (it wasn't mentioned in the outline)?

Chapter Twenty: Born in Sin, Die in Sin

This is a perfect copy-paste from the previous plot outline, I don't think anything has to be changed in this chapter.

  • 12000 - The Frozen Flame beckons and challenges the party to see if they can tame it. All six members (seven if Ayla is healed) approach, disappearing.
  • ? - Marle goes through a Guardia Castle dungeon and must face the torment of witnessing those close to her die. She sees her mother, who turns into Yakra. After killing him, he turns into King Guardia, who mutters that he killed Aliza, and now Marle has killed him. She falters.
  • ? - Glenn goes through a forest / Denadoro tileset dungeon and observes scenes of cruelty in his era, and is faced with being powerless to stop them and a failure to Cyrus. He is taunted by what appears to be Magus, and is told Magus is going to destroy Chronopolis to find Schala. Glenn is tormented with the decision of killing him, and afterwards, Magus's corpse turns into Serran. Glenn falters.
  • ? - Robo enters a dome of the ruined future. He must battle robots and kill humans who blocks his way to continue. The Flame torments him by calling him an in-betweener, caught between the world of humans and robots but unable to fully participate in either. Atropos later appears and says he is infected; he must fight Atropos to survive. Horrified, Lucca seems to appear and begins dismantling him. He ultimately kills her to survive, but falters.
  • ? - Lucca must go through a series of 1000 A.D. houses, laboratories, and Leene Square. The Flame ridicules her science as merely a tool to be used by governments and those more powerful than her, and that she'll never see the bright future she's creating. The scene shfits to her house, where R-series blue robots have killed her parents. They note they must kill her and assimilate her technology. After killing them, she discovers they were piloted by children, and falters.
  • ? - Magus enters what appears to be his lair. The Flame torments him by revealing just how many thousands of humans and Mystics died as a result of the war. Magus shrugs it off and keeps going, and after passing a few rooms with broken bodies of Mystics, he shouts "Where are you!!?" and enters the next room to find Schala. The Flame taunts him and blames him for the destruction of Zeal on account of his being to weak to stop his mother. What appears to be King Zeal arrives and challenges Magus in battle; this is a new enemy and he simply sits with a load of HP while a Schala enemy throws spells at Magus. Magus wears them down to the point where Schala cannot fight. King Zeal appears to launch a dark spell, and Magus is forced to counter it. As a result, Schala dies, and Magus falters.
  • ? - Crono appears in the inner shell of Lavos. As he walks, he sees bodies broken upon the ground and must fight weird monsters. The Flame ridicules him for killing scores of people across time, and notes that he's nothing more than an assassin. He continues walking and sees the bodies of all manner of NPCs (important ones). He keeps going and sees the bodies of his friends. The Flame taunts him, saying that though everyone dies, Crono will continue on killing for eternity. He finds Lavos in the final chamber but is transported to a new area resembling Magus's lair. All manner of weird crap is there...however much the palette limit will allow. Robots, Mystics, humans, enemies. The Flame tells him they're all created by Lavos anyway. He's transported to fight the central Lavos bit (weakened to fit the game's difficulty) and after its over, Lavos turns into a kid who says "Forgive me." Crono kills it, and he's told that he's just subtracted yet another lifeform from the world. He runs around in the empty room before faltering.
  • ? - Ayla, if available, appears in prehistory. She says "Home?" and scampers around before Reptites surround her. She wanders around and defeats them. The Flame taunts her for being a ruthless killer, but she echoes "law of earth. Win and live. Lose and die. No change law." (In the JP version it was the law of earth, not rule of life.) She's transported to a factory. No battles here; the Flame just ridicules her for not being able to even comprehend the future of life. She notes that life is simple; eat and live, love friends and lovers, and live for the betterment of the world. Defeated again in this little game, the Flame takes her back to prehistory. She wanders around and destroys more Reptites before confronting a Nizbel creature. The Flame interjects that humans can never co-exist with other life. She asks Nizbel if he wishes to fight. Nizbel declines, and Ayla opts not to fight him. Ayla states that one must protect oneself, but that all life is precious. She is transported to a black screen, and approaches the Flame before hearing a KING ZEAL: No!!
  • 12000 - The party (three of them) materialize back at the Ocean Palace, where King Zeal has recovered from his stupor and stops the party from accessing the Frozen Flame.
  • 12000 - The party must battle the Frozen Flame.
  • 12000 - After the battle, King Zeal exclaims that something huge is happening, and withdraws through a portal with the Frozen Flame. The party returns to Chronopolis.

Chapter Twenty-One: Dreaming Across Time

I'm gonna post something about the side-quests in the other thread.

  • 2302 - Gaspar has returned to the End of Time.
  • 2302 - At Chronopolis, Belthasar reveals that King Zeal has gone off the map (again), and that this would be a prime time to fix things across time. (The EoT is a Pocket Dimension, but Gaspar can't locate King Zeal either.)

Chapter Twenty-Two: Terror Dei Albi (Terror of the White God...we could go with Terror De Deo Albo (from the White God)

  • 2302 - Having finished sidequests, the team prepare for a final assault. Belthasar finds King Zeal is on the North Cape.
  • 11998 - They confront him, and King Zeal relates that when Schala was lost after the mini-dungeons, Lavos began absorbing her, but her immense sorrow and feel of guilt actually overwhelmed Lavos, resulting in a paradoxical and torn mind whose mad emotions could potentially lead to the devouring of space-time.
  • 11998 - King Zeal relates that he wanted to rebuild Zeal in some form, but it is too late. The new plan of the maddened Lavos takes precedence over King Zeal's being used to get revenge on Crono, and King Zeal must now be absorbed with Schala to mature the Devourer of Time.
  • 11998 - King Zeal opens a portal to the Darkness Beyond Time with Belthasar's original Time Egg. The party can't stop it and must follow him. Belthasar tells the party that defeating King Zeal will stop the Time Devourer cold and taking the Frozen Flame will break up the DBT (this won't be the case, but Belthasar honestly didn't know it... that's why he later makes sure he knows everything, in CC).
  • 11998 - The party and Belthasar try to reopen the Gate, but realize it was opened with tremendous power from King Zeal and the Frozen Flame both. They note that the only way to get in would be to harness the only other source of that kind of temporal power -- the Entity.
  • 2302 - Belthasar consults Gaspar at the End of Time, who is bitter but agrees to help the party go back millions of years to find the birth of the Entity. Belthasar postulates that finding the first formation of Dreamstone would be a good start. Melchior calls for Doreen's aid; she echoes Gaspar's fears of tampering with time.
  • Ж - The party arrive to penetrate the seas to find the first formation of Dreamstone. Doreen helps the party descend; they navigate the sea floor before finding an underwater volcano and a cooling piece of Dreamstone. Doreen tries to communicate with it...If Crono isn't in the party, he arrives here.
  • Ж - The screen flashes white and only Crono remains. The Entity speaks; it remembers Crono from the quests, and understands his need. The Entity's consciousness transcends time. It asks if opening that Gate is important to Crono, and whether Crono is strong enough to prove worthy of commanding such a responsibility.
  • Ж - The Entity reveals that it will emplace something to test Crono deeper in the oceanic rift. If Crono can defeat it, the Entity will grant it its temporal power in 11998 B.C. Crono wakes up and begins hurrying deeper into the rift, not stopping one minute to talk to his peers.
  • Ж - The party find a radical Nautilus, perhaps dealing a lot of status effects. They defeat it and return to Chronopolis.

Chapter Twenty-Three: Where Dreams go to Die

  • 2302 - After returning from the trip, the party recuperate and talk to each other. Before the others, we see a black screen where someone talks about a horrifying experience. Being in a strange place had a taxing effect on his body. We then hear Marle reassure this person (it's Crono). Then it switches to the others, who discuss time and make certain thematic observations that tie in with Chrono Cross.
  • 11998 - Belthasar sends the party to this era for the opening of the Gate. Doreen comes with once again and with Crono, channels the Entity. The sky darkens and the Gate erupts. Belthasar sends one final message -- to channel the Entity one last time after defeating the Time Devourer to make it back. The party enter.
  • DBT - The party follow him in, running through a host of discarded timelines, including old places and times visited like the ruined world of 2300 A.D., Zeal, etc. all disjointed, like the Dead Sea. Maps suddenly dropping off into darkness, etc.
  • DBT - They find King Zeal, Schala, and Lavos. They confront and defeat King Zeal. He remarks that his infectious legacy recently spread will haunt them, and says something to Magus.
  • DBT - They leave except Magus, who stays behind.

(Just a nitpick: counting the prologue, there are thus 23 chapters. CT and CC each had 26 chapters, too bad we don't reach this number.)

There are still a few things I'd really like to see commented: is the Porre cyborg's role still... necessary? He was intended to have a huge role originally, his role was quite lessened in the currently-used plot, and in this version I'm posting, he's a bit more important but still not much. He could easily be replaced by a random Porrean (Ingrus?), and the absence of a functional cyborg would give actual sense to the wish that Luccia's parents utter to the girl.

Another question: what became of Gaspar's wish to merge with the Entity? I thought it had a lot of potential. The variant, Crono accidentally binding with the Entity and speaking for it for some time, was even more interesting. Why was it scrapped, would it have been too much to add in an already too comprehensive plot?

And finally, what's left to write is... the ending. We would go against canon with the Crono/Miguel ending. The version I came up with is still here (I even have an actual reason for the population to want the abolition of the Guardia monarchy: Queen Nadia, while liked by everybody, just doesn't make an efficient ruler when it comes to realpolitik). However, I understand if people don't agree with this vision and if we don't use it. Plus it might be a bit tricky to concretly present (it might too long for an ending sequence).

Agent 12

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Re: gasp...Plot revision?
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2008, 12:33:28 pm »
Got a quick question cause apparantly my temporal mechanics aren't up to snuff:

After the Atash Kedah (i think) scene our current timeline is:

Ayla healing prehistory Kong not happy-->nothing special 12,000 -> Kasmir is about to go crazy in 600 -> pretty docile porre? --> Central Regime is getting harrassed by one of the reptites


After The Gray Forgotten (quell future rebels)

Ayla healing prehistory Kong taking over-->nothing special 12,000 -> Kasmir is about to go crazy in 600 -> pretty docile porre? --> Central Regime is actively looking for chronopolis


After Animal Like Persistence (Frog stops Kong)

Ayla healing prehistory-->nothing special 12,000 -> Kasmir is going crazy in 600 -> pretty docile porre? --> Central Regime is getting harrassed by one of the reptites


After The Glare of midnight

Ayla healing prehistory-->nothing special 12,000 -> Mourning in 600 -> ANGRY porre! --> Central Regime is getting harrassed by one of the reptites


After The Darkness of Noon

Ayla healing prehistory-->nothing special 12,000 -> Ozzie Rules in 600 -> calmed porre.. --> Central Regime is getting harrassed by one of the reptites


I'm trying to do dialogue for specific chapters:

What exactly happens in the glare of midnight that causes a CHANGE in history? 

I realize that after the atash kedah scene Zeal helps Kasmir kill Porre and mystics thus bonding the two which causes havoc in guardia later.  But should the havoc in guardia be after the atash kedah scene or after the group attacks Kasmir's fortress?  Maybe they should already be angry and then just be doing the meeting during that chapter?



--JP

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Re: gasp...Plot revision?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2008, 03:47:29 pm »
Are we scrapping the vanguard after the masamune gets returned?  It didn't appear until the masamune was stolen but now we are reinserting a Frog into the timeline who has seen the vanguard?  So maybe he still allows it to exist?

--JP

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Re: gasp...Plot revision?
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2008, 06:10:48 pm »
He'd have to totally remake it himself starting in 602 A.D. So yeah, I guess since the timeline is fixed, the Vanguard is history.