Author Topic: Spekkio...  (Read 47726 times)

Hiroshino

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Spekkio...
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2004, 12:13:33 am »
Quote from: Leebot
When was the last time Square mentioned anything to help explain part of a game?


Exactly. And to answer your question, to my knowledge, I don't think Square ever has mentioned anything to help explain part of a game.

Chrono'99

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Spekkio...
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2004, 05:11:19 pm »
Square did stated stuff like Guile not being Magus, and CC's Prometheus being CT's one though.

But anyway, Turnip is definitely the dream of the sleeping Acacia Dragoon right? So it shouldn't be farfetched to think Masa and Mune are also litterally Melchior's dream embodied.

Now, when the Gurus and Janus were thrown into portals at the Ocean Palace, they popped out from Truce Canyon, Medina Village, Bangor Dome, and the End of Time... at exactly the same locations than the Entity's Gates that Crono can use. Crono and Gaspar entered the End of Time from the same spot (well, approximately since there are 9 Gates), but when Crono comes there is a ground which was not there when Gaspar arrived. So Gaspar most probably created it, and thus Spekkio should also be part of his creation.

Hiroshino

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Spekkio...
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2004, 05:25:30 pm »
Quote from: Chrono'99
Now, when the Gurus and Janus were thrown into portals at the Ocean Palace, they popped out from Truce Canyon, Medina Village, Bangor Dome, and the End of Time... at exactly the same locations than the Entity's Gates that Crono can use. Crono and Gaspar entered the End of Time from the same spot (well, approximately since there are 9 Gates), but when Crono comes there is a ground which was not there when Gaspar arrived. So Gaspar most probably created it, and thus Spekkio should also be part of his creation.


Very true. I highly doubt Spekkio was already there when Gaspar arrived.

V_Translanka

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Spekkio...
« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2004, 08:52:27 pm »
Well, you also have to take in account that the End of Time is mostly empty space...You have no idea what Gaspar did when he arrived...or where in the End of Time he came in...So he could have just as likely stumbled upon it. Maybe it was all Spekkio's creation...Maybe it was remnants from whatever happened to Time to make it the "End of Time". Or, then again, maybe Gaspar just hawked stuff from various time periods...

Quote from: Hiroshino
But that is what you believe, just as some of us believe that he was being literal. For all we know, he could have been. I have yet to hear Square announce or mention that Melchior was or wasn't being literal.


For the second time...Someone has taken my own opinion as some kind of personal attack...Or maybe people are just getting overly defensive about their own (and, of course, others') beliefs. I was just stating my own opinion, which others may (or may not...I'm not so big-headed) believe one way or the other...Just providing the other side of the coin, as they say...Or as some people might say? Whatever...

Hiroshino

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Spekkio...
« Reply #49 on: December 25, 2004, 09:45:45 pm »
Quote from: V_Translanka
Well, you also have to take in account that the End of Time is mostly empty space...You have no idea what Gaspar did when he arrived...or where in the End of Time he came in...So he could have just as likely stumbled upon it. Maybe it was all Spekkio's creation...Maybe it was remnants from whatever happened to Time to make it the "End of Time". Or, then again, maybe Gaspar just hawked stuff from various time periods...


I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but notice how when Janus, Belthasar, and Melchior arrive, they appear out of Time Gates right? And how Gaspar just kind of falls from the top of the screen? Well, then notice how Crono and company do the same when they are accessing the Time Gates/Buckets at the End of Time. When they leave they seem to ascend to the top of the screen and when they arrive, they seem to fall from the top of the screen just like Gaspar did. My whole point in explaining that is, is that maybe Gaspar had truly landed in the same location as to where those Time Gates/Buckets are located, at the End of Time. And then I'm guessing that when Gaspar had gotten his bearings straight, and being the Guru of Time and all, he, like you stated, probably hawked some stuff from various time periods to give him a solid ground and such, and had made that area that you now see at the End of Time. And since Spekkio wasn't around the same area where Gaspar landed, which would supposedly be the same area where the Time Gates/Buckets is, Spekkio was embodied from Gaspar's dream(s).

This is all just a theory of mine, but your statements do bring up interesting points.

Quote from: V_Translanka
For the second time...Someone has taken my own opinion as some kind of personal attack...Or maybe people are just getting overly defensive about their own (and, of course, others') beliefs. I was just stating my own opinion, which others may (or may not...I'm not so big-headed) believe one way or the other...Just providing the other side of the coin, as they say...Or as some people might say? Whatever...


Yes, I had apologized in another thread about that. I was most likely uptight or defensive and took things the wrong way. Again, I apologize for that.

Faulce

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Spekkio...
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2005, 11:24:29 pm »
Quote from: Hiroshino
Very true. I highly doubt Spekkio was already there when Gaspar arrived.

Why? What in the game leads your mind to that conclusion?

Hiroshino

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Spekkio...
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2005, 11:33:57 pm »
Quote from: Hiroshino
I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but notice how when Janus, Belthasar, and Melchior arrive, they appear out of Time Gates right? And how Gaspar just kind of falls from the top of the screen? Well, then notice how Crono and company do the same when they are accessing the Time Gates/Buckets at the End of Time. When they leave they seem to ascend to the top of the screen and when they arrive, they seem to fall from the top of the screen just like Gaspar did. My whole point in explaining that is, is that maybe Gaspar had truly landed in the same location as to where those Time Gates/Buckets are located, at the End of Time. And then I'm guessing that when Gaspar had gotten his bearings straight, and being the Guru of Time and all, he, like you stated, probably hawked some stuff from various time periods to give him a solid ground and such, and had made that area that you now see at the End of Time. And since Spekkio wasn't around the same area where Gaspar landed, which would supposedly be the same area where the Time Gates/Buckets is, Spekkio was embodied from Gaspar's dream(s).


Well, when I consider this theory of mine, I also wonder where else Spekkio could have came from in all of that infinite nothingness of darkness other than the area where Gaspar arrives at and resides at when he establishes the place that we see in the game. If it's the "End of Time", then there's nothing left. Where else would Spekkio go or be? And where would he come from? When I asked myself these, and considered the facts and compared them with my theories, I thought that the idea of Spekkio being the dream of Gaspar made more sense than Spekkio coming out of no where with no solid evidence, that I'd know of, of where he exactly came from. This would also eliminate the idea of him being a machine since Spekkio would have to have had a creator and that the idea of him being a time-traveler seems void considering that he really didn't appear to have anything that would make him capable of traveling time. Maybe he had the items like Crono having the Rainbow but not showing it on the screen when he moves around? Or perhaps his magic made an illusion, I don't know. And then there's that theory that Spekkio is a god and I can't think of anything contradictory for that one. But, I seem to have answered your question, Faulce.

Faulce

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Spekkio...
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2005, 11:54:52 pm »
Quote from: Hiroshino
And since Spekkio wasn't around the same area where Gaspar landed, which would supposedly be the same area where the Time Gates/Buckets is, Spekkio was embodied from Gaspar's dream(s).

Nice little If-Then-ish statement you have there. (sarcasm intended-but I'm not being mean :D ) Spekkio's "role" all depends upon how you look at the Nu in general (I am calling him a Nu because of his final form). It is reasonable to say that Spekkio's existence has something to do with Gaspar, however assuming that the little area the party finds at the end of time is where Gaspar landed originally, where did the light pillars come from? Why make a little home for himself at the EoT when he can simply live in any time period he wishes or when he now has infinite resources footsteps away to find a way to stop Zeal/Lavos?
However I've recently come to believe that Spekkio isn't a Nu at all. He is a being that can mimic styles of fighting he observes throughout time and chooses them according the power of his opponents. (That much is obvious) Perhaps the strongest beings on the planet are the Nu, they just hold back their true power for some reason. Still not sure though.

Arc Impulse

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Spekkio...
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2005, 02:58:39 am »
In the Japanese version, Spekkio himself states that he's the God of War.  (See my translation thread in GD)

Of course, he could be lying.  He's capricious and egotistical enough.

Radical_Dreamer

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Spekkio...
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2005, 03:14:21 am »
Quote from: Faulce
Nice little If-Then-ish statement you have there. (sarcasm intended-but I'm not being mean :D )


Then that would be "facetious" or however it's spelled. I don't mean to be a dick, but a friend of mine recently called me on that one, so I thought I'd share.

Hiroshino

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Spekkio...
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2005, 08:16:50 pm »
Quote from: Faulce
Quote from: Hiroshino
And since Spekkio wasn't around the same area where Gaspar landed, which would supposedly be the same area where the Time Gates/Buckets is, Spekkio was embodied from Gaspar's dream(s).

Nice little If-Then-ish statement you have there. (sarcasm intended-but I'm not being mean :D )


Oh, that, yeah.  :wink: Hehe, sorry for automatically assuming things there. I reread what I said and it's as if I was saying, in my opinion of what I said at least, that there was no other alternative. But, it seems that he really is a god.

Fox

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Spekkio...
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2005, 10:25:00 pm »
Perhaps Spekkio actually is a god of war, I'm pretty sure he says so himself.     It would also explain why he seemed so unconcerned about Lavos. If you were a god who basically gave people weapons (yes, I'm calling magic a weapon here,) would you be concerned about a minor thing like the end of the world? I probably wouldn't. Plus, it makes sense for the god of war to give you power just to watch you use it  in battle. Maybe he just .... lived until the end of time watching people fight wars, and maybe supplying people with weapons and magic whenever things quieted down for a few centuries. Or perhaps he exists outside of time.  Or maybe I'm, giving him too much credit and he's actually just an illusion created by Gaspar who likes to say "GRRR" :D  Who knows?

Faulce

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Spekkio...
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2005, 11:19:35 pm »
Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
Quote from: Faulce
Nice little If-Then-ish statement you have there. (sarcasm intended-but I'm not being mean :D )


Then that would be "facetious" or however it's spelled. I don't mean to be a dick, but a friend of mine recently called me on that one, so I thought I'd share.

lol, yes i can be that way sometimes
Quote from: Arc Impulse
In the Japanese version, Spekkio himself states that he's the God of War. (See my translation thread in GD)

In the american version he says the same. As long as I dont think of him as a Nu, I can see him as a product of Gaspar. Gaspar asks to join the team at the end of the game. Perhaps he really wanted to "fight the good fight", but his aged body did not allow him to do so. Perhaps he lived out his frustrated dreams of fighting glorious battles (magically, and if he had them at all, I'm going on one shaky quote here) by creating Spekkio, a being who was the king of magical solo combat. It explains why he cannot be harmed by any physical attack, Gaspar made him (somehow) with only magic in mind. I guess the only problem is that the "Spekkio is the dream of Gaspar" theory is not 'consistent' with the "Masa/Mune are the dream of Melchior" theory only in that Spekkio seems to be so limited in movement, while Masa and Mune seem to be independent of Melchior completely now. Though i could see that as the tradeoff for Spekkio's enormous power -- control difficulty and need for control.

Arc Impulse

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Spekkio...
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2005, 01:15:58 am »
Quote from: Faulce
Quote from: Arc Impulse
In the Japanese version, Spekkio himself states that he's the God of War. (See my translation thread in GD)
In the american version he says the same.

No, in the US version he calls himself the "Master of War".  God = definitely not a kosher word with the Nintendo censors of the time.  They started loosening up slightly around Chrono Trigger's era, but it was still put to most of the same standards as earlier SNES RPGs.

Chrono'99

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Spekkio...
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2005, 08:06:52 am »
The little monster in the Bend of Time in CC does say "god of war" anyway, when speaking to Janice about Spekkio. CC is sometimes closer to the original than CT was, like when Belthasar says he used to be "a sage of reason" instead of "the Guru of Reason".