Author Topic: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!  (Read 6368 times)

grey_the_angel

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2006, 07:10:58 am »
Oh, how true! But tell that to the American people. Tell that to any people. Eternal vigilience is not a public trait except when it comes to scandal, gossip, and pop culture. I'm afraid democracy is a sham...

As time change & people's values change.  I guess that trait is not applicable anymore.

It never was.
it was in roman times. despite their ... vicous standing, they were truly advance, having the only true democratic system in effect, and also being the first to host a anonymous ballet to protect its citizens. everyday, people would gather and vote together, as a people. EVERY DAY. they may have sounded like barbarians, but they were a truly gifted and intellgent cilivization where the individual had the same power as others.

seriously, go study up on them. they were truly brilliant.
Correct me if I, and most probably, am wrong, but wasn't Rome for most of it's conquery and awesomy time an Empire? And aren't most Empires not democratic, or not a, quote, "true democracy"? Plus, I think the most democratic system back in the day were the Athenians, the founders of democracy (well, Pericles was). But I guess that only lasted for like half a century. But even the Roman Republic was an oligarchy.

Or something.
an empire is more of a state of infection. america is an empire. u.s.s.r was an empire. it really more or less how much influence you have.

most of the roman empire was city states, with a single ruler who was promptly killed quick as shit. democracy really ruled, despite what you would believe.

This the whole thing about christopher columbus. he didn't actually discover america, but we remember him in that way.

or maybe I'm thinking of the greek. >.> eh... someone do a background check. to wikipedia

still, the number of things the romans did was worthwhile.


/edit/ yeah, you were right. it was the greek: specifically the athenian empire. most of the greek empire was monarchies though >.> at least from what I gathered.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 07:19:02 am by grey_the_angel »

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2006, 08:07:21 am »
Quote
The concept of "empire" in the modern world, while still present politically, has begun to lose cohesion semantically. The only remaining country nominally ruled by an Emperor, Japan, comprises a constitutional monarchy with a population of approximately 99% ethnic Japanese. Just as absolute monarchies (as opposed to constitutional monarchies) have largely fallen out of favor in modern times, the term "empire" itself may now become somewhat of an anachronism.

The former Soviet Union had many of the criteria of an empire, but nevertheless did not claim to be one, nor was it ruled by a traditional hereditary "emperor" (see Soviet Empire). Nevertheless, historians still occasionally classify it as an empire, if only because of its similarities to empires of the past and its sway over a large multi-ethnic bloc of Eurasia.

Most modern multi-ethnic states see themselves as voluntary federations (Switzerland, for example, or Belgium) or as unions (United Kingdom, Spain, European Union), and not as empires. Most have democratic structures, and operate under systems which share power through multiple levels of government that differentiate between areas of federal and provincial/state jurisdiction. Where separatist groups exist, internal and external observers may disagree on whether state action against them represents legitimate law-enforcement against a violent or non-violent fringe group, or state violence to control a broadly unwilling population. A list of multi-ethnic states with ongoing violence by and against separatists might swamp this article, although China, Russia, Indonesia and India distinguish themselves by sheer size.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2006, 09:36:05 am »
Oh, how true! But tell that to the American people. Tell that to any people. Eternal vigilience is not a public trait except when it comes to scandal, gossip, and pop culture. I'm afraid democracy is a sham...

As time change & people's values change.  I guess that trait is not applicable anymore.

It never was.
it was in roman times. despite their ... vicous standing, they were truly advance, having the only true democratic system in effect, and also being the first to host a anonymous ballet to protect its citizens. everyday, people would gather and vote together, as a people. EVERY DAY. they may have sounded like barbarians, but they were a truly gifted and intellgent cilivization where the individual had the same power as others.

seriously, go study up on them. they were truly brilliant.

You are just teeming with misinformation this week...

For one thing, I find it at least the slightest bit amusing that you would suggest to me--of all people--to "go study up" on the Romans, as if the most important society in Western history somehow eluded my attention for all these years. Do you have any idea who you are dealing with? Pft!

Your misguided paragraph on Rome is proof enough that you should take your own advice and "study up" on the Romans. But even putting aside your ignorance, the fact still remains that "eternal vigilience" has never been a human quality that expresses itself collectively--with the exceptions I already provided, all of which cater to humanity's baser interests. Where lofty and hard-earned qualities of character are concerned, public exhibition of these virtues defies our communal psychology to this day, and will continue to do so for a long time to come. Why? All the same culprits as usual, of course! Ignorance, cruelty, laziness, pettiness, egotism, and faith. Multiply that by a whole society of people interacting with one another, and you have one genuinely fucked up public body. That's just who we are, at least in this era of our evolution. We're children.

grey_the_angel

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2006, 10:36:01 am »
Oh, how true! But tell that to the American people. Tell that to any people. Eternal vigilience is not a public trait except when it comes to scandal, gossip, and pop culture. I'm afraid democracy is a sham...

As time change & people's values change.  I guess that trait is not applicable anymore.

It never was.
it was in roman times. despite their ... vicous standing, they were truly advance, having the only true democratic system in effect, and also being the first to host a anonymous ballet to protect its citizens. everyday, people would gather and vote together, as a people. EVERY DAY. they may have sounded like barbarians, but they were a truly gifted and intellgent cilivization where the individual had the same power as others.

seriously, go study up on them. they were truly brilliant.

You are just teeming with misinformation this week...

For one thing, I find it at least the slightest bit amusing that you would suggest to me--of all people--to "go study up" on the Romans, as if the most important society in Western history somehow eluded my attention for all these years. Do you have any idea who you are dealing with? Pft!

Your misguided paragraph on Rome is proof enough that you should take your own advice and "study up" on the Romans. But even putting aside your ignorance, the fact still remains that "eternal vigilience" has never been a human quality that expresses itself collectively--with the exceptions I already provided, all of which cater to humanity's baser interests. Where lofty and hard-earned qualities of character are concerned, public exhibition of these virtues defies our communal psychology to this day, and will continue to do so for a long time to come. Why? All the same culprits as usual, of course! Ignorance, cruelty, laziness, pettiness, egotism, and faith. Multiply that by a whole society of people interacting with one another, and you have one genuinely fucked up public body. That's just who we are, at least in this era of our evolution. We're children.
your amazing in your ablity to just magically skip other zepplin and me correcting myself.

good job.

Silvercry

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2006, 10:24:30 pm »

You're asking me to do the work of several departments of the government? Fine, how about some generalities:

1. First layer of defense: We can prevent some terrorist plots from ever beginning. This is where foreign policy comes in. There's a lot we could do to improve our image in the world, strengthening our alliances and at the same time discouraging enmity against us. The Bush administration's indefensible bullying of the other countries of the world is an umbrella of bad policy. Once we get that idiot and his incompetent cronies out of office, it'll be like the end of Return of the Jedi all over again: fireworks, singing, and joy. It's about time we had some motherfuckin' joy in the house.

Funny you choose the end Return of Jedi as a comparison for the end of the Bush Administration, since:

1) It took two to three years for the Rebellion to take back Coruscant from Isard (Parallel  - Republicans will most likely still control Congress)
2) The Alliance still had to deal with Palpatine’s clones roughly 4 years after Jedi (Parallel - We will still have Bush’s two Supreme Court appointees to deal with -- and for a lot longer than four years.)
3) Some 21 years later, The New Republic is gutted by the Vong, a fanatical group ready to kill and die the name of their Gods (Parallel  - Come on, this one is obvious.)

Although this is one of the few times I wholeheartedly agree with your post (bringing the total up to two, I believe) I just wanted to point out that Bush being gone will not instantly solve anything.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 11:30:39 pm by Silvercry »

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2006, 11:07:01 pm »

You're asking me to do the work of several departments of the government? Fine, how about some generalities:

1. First layer of defense: We can prevent some terrorist plots from ever beginning. This is where foreign policy comes in. There's a lot we could do to improve our image in the world, strengthening our alliances and at the same time discouraging enmity against us. The Bush administration's indefensible bullying of the other countries of the world is an umbrella of bad policy. Once we get that idiot and his incompetent cronies out of office, it'll be like the end of Return of the Jedi all over again: fireworks, singing, and joy. It's about time we had some motherfuckin' joy in the house.

Funny you choose the end Return of Jedi as a comparison, for the end of the Bush Administration, since:

1) It took two to three years for the Rebellion to take back Coruscant from Isard (Parallel  - Republicans will most likely still control Congress)
2) The Alliance still had to deal with Palpatine’s clones roughly 4 years after Jedi (Parallel - We will still have Bush’s two Supreme Court appointees to deal with -- and for a lot longer than four years.)
3) Some 21 years later, The New Republic is gutted by the Vong, a fanatical group ready to kill and die the name of their Gods (Parallel  - Come on, this one is obvious.)

Although this is one of the few times I wholeheartedly agree with your post (bringing the total up to two, I believe) I just wanted to point out that Bush being gone will not instantly solve anything.

That's all well and good, but then why did Star Wars III suck?

Lord J, why do you hate faith so much? Notice I said faith not religion. Faith keeps people moving. I bet most nihilists wouldn't give a shit about killing their own mother. Sex Pistols? Oh yeah. I understand where your hatred of The Big Religions come from (even I hate Jedi :P), but it's not like the Islamic Muhjadeen and the Christian Crusaders did only bad for the world. I doubt any civilisation, even yours, would be able to expand and keep together as a society without some chaos or death.

Silvercry

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2006, 11:33:10 pm »
That's all well and good, but then why did Star Wars III suck?

I do not understand your question sir, due the fact that Revenge of the Sith was awesome.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2006, 11:35:24 pm »
That's all well and good, but then why did Star Wars III suck?

I do not understand your question sir, due the fact that Revenge of the Sith was awesome.

Except for NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I would have preferred something like "ugh..UGHAHHHHHHHH" over something that cliche. Not that I'm a prequel hater.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2006, 11:59:22 pm »
That's all well and good, but then why did Star Wars III suck?

I do not understand your question sir, due the fact that Revenge of the Sith was awesome.
The Anakin turning into Darth Vader thing was executed way too shitty-ly.

It would've been more awesome if it ended with Darth Vader in his chair thingy rising up saying, instead of the happy desert ending.

Oh, and if Padme was naked the whole time.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2006, 03:33:42 am »
Funny you choose the end Return of Jedi as a comparison for the end of the Bush Administration, since:

1) It took two to three years for the Rebellion to take back Coruscant from Isard (Parallel  - Republicans will most likely still control Congress)
2) The Alliance still had to deal with Palpatine’s clones roughly 4 years after Jedi (Parallel - We will still have Bush’s two Supreme Court appointees to deal with -- and for a lot longer than four years.)
3) Some 21 years later, The New Republic is gutted by the Vong, a fanatical group ready to kill and die the name of their Gods (Parallel  - Come on, this one is obvious.)

You’re right, of course. What I meant is that I consider the end of the Bush administration a prerequisite to any meaningful progress. It is a case of “necessary, not sufficient.”

However, as of today I’m ready to call it: The Democrats are going to take the U.S. House this year. That’s not certain yet, but for the first time I am confident enough to say it publicly. We’ll also come within one or two seats of taking the Senate, falling just short of achieving outright control. And it has been safe money for months that this is going to be a very good year for Democratic governors—we’re going to take the majority of governorships with room to spare. Those governorships will be vital in the Congressional redistricting that will occur after the next census. Best of all, we’re setting ourselves up for major Democratic gains in 2008. I think we’ll take both the presidency and the Senate that year.

Although this is one of the few times I wholeheartedly agree with your post (bringing the total up to two, I believe)…

Just two, eh? What was the other one?


Lord J, why do you hate faith so much? Notice I said faith not religion.

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=2733.msg49283#msg49283

I doubt any civilisation, even yours, would be able to expand and keep together as a society without some chaos or death.

I don't know.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2006, 04:46:14 am »
Lord J, I see you are fed up with arguing with me now. Let's toast to a new, well founded friendship!

Oh, you just can't be bothered.

Silvercry

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2006, 10:20:19 am »
Although this is one of the few times I wholeheartedly agree with your post (bringing the total up to two, I believe)…

Just two, eh? What was the other one?

You once said that The Adventures of Pete and Pete was "one of the most intelligent and clever kids' shows ever made"  I don’t think it is possible for us to agree on any subject on Earth more than that one.


Lord J Esq

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Re: Bingo. Wiretapping unconstitutional!
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2006, 10:27:28 am »
It's good to see--and I say this at least as much in earnest as in jest--that when it comes to the important stuff, we're on the same page.