Author Topic: Humanity: Good News, Bad News  (Read 110672 times)

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #870 on: August 23, 2010, 07:12:54 am »
Wait a sec... Speeds up the "expansion" of the universe? How the hell are we able to "measure" the dimensions of the Universe when we can't even have a detailed study of galaxies further than the Milky Way? If they're saying that the clusters of galaxies are taking distance rapidly that does not actually "conclude" that the universe has an end in the first place, just the fact that they're separating, possible due to the Dark Energy as they observed or because of the changing gravitational strengths of the galaxies/stars themselves. Of course that can still be a "theory", but theories aren't facts and should merely be considered as points of advancements.

Speaking of which, does Dark Energy and Quantum Entanglement have any significance?

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #871 on: August 23, 2010, 08:56:17 am »
Scally: Whatever it is you're disagreeing with me about, is not something I'm disagreeing with you about. My point is that your position's style, or your position itself, or both, are unscientific. You are invoking the language of skepticism, but your actual statements have indicated supposition. I invite you to reconsider whether you actually have a point worth making that I haven't already conceded to you, and, if so, to revisit your posts and restate your objection to the news item. I would also suggest you reconsider your competence to make that objection. How much do you really know about all this?

Tush: If you were not aware that the universe is expanding, indeed that much is well-established by observation of objects throughout visible space. I get the impression that you are dismissive even of that verifiable claim, in which case you should not be conversing with me but looking into an astronomy primer or perhaps setting up your own telescope. As for the last part of your post, I should tell you that I have a tendency to outright dismiss anyone who commits the trolling action of dismissing scientific "theories" because they are not "facts." Given that you are in India, you may not be aware that that tactic is used by Western Christians to make straw man arguments against pretty much any scientific theory which displeases them. In science, theory follows from facts. Theory is comprised of the objective interpretation of facts under the tenets of falsifiability and reproducibility. Finally, as I cautioned xcalibur, I will caution you: You are almost certainly not qualified to discuss cosmology with such casual familiarity. You would honor yourself and your conversation mates to approach the subject with less supposition and more inquisition.

xcalibur

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #872 on: August 23, 2010, 03:39:04 pm »
Scally: Whatever it is you're disagreeing with me about, is not something I'm disagreeing with you about. My point is that your position's style, or your position itself, or both, are unscientific. You are invoking the language of skepticism, but your actual statements have indicated supposition. I invite you to reconsider whether you actually have a point worth making that I haven't already conceded to you, and, if so, to revisit your posts and restate your objection to the news item. I would also suggest you reconsider your competence to make that objection. How much do you really know about all this?
Wrong, my position and style are not unscientific. My arguments have followed current scientific understanding of cosmology as well as scientific processes. As it stands now, we are not 100% certain about the universe. We have a grasp of some things, and some strong theories, but there are still varying possibilities which have not been narrowed down.

You say I made an "objection". What objection? What do you think my objection is? If you read my posts, including the first one, you will see that I was not denying eternal expansion, but rather adding an addendum - that cosmology is not completely settled and there are other possibilities which we won't be able to learn about further without expanding our knowledge.

And I in turn question your willingness and/or ability to read.

Hopefully, you will respond with substantial posts, and not more of this sophistry.

Quote
Tush: If you were not aware that the universe is expanding, indeed that much is well-established by observation of objects throughout visible space. I get the impression that you are dismissive even of that verifiable claim, in which case you should not be conversing with me but looking into an astronomy primer or perhaps setting up your own telescope. As for the last part of your post, I should tell you that I have a tendency to outright dismiss anyone who commits the trolling action of dismissing scientific "theories" because they are not "facts." Given that you are in India, you may not be aware that that tactic is used by Western Christians to make straw man arguments against pretty much any scientific theory which displeases them. In science, theory follows from facts. Theory is comprised of the objective interpretation of facts under the tenets of falsifiability and reproducibility. Finally, as I cautioned xcalibur, I will caution you: You are almost certainly not qualified to discuss cosmology with such casual familiarity. You would honor yourself and your conversation mates to approach the subject with less supposition and more inquisition.
Although this was directed at him, some of this may be directed towards me as well, so I will reply accordingly. First of all, redshift clearly indicates expansion of the universe. Second, I do not dismiss scientific theories because they haven't been proven as absolute fact. Nor did I dismiss any theories in this discussion. And third, I do have enough of a grasp on these issues to discuss them.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #873 on: August 24, 2010, 02:36:32 am »
And third, I do have enough of a grasp on these issues to discuss them.

You've demonstrated your ability to discuss them...just not intelligently. I'm not sorry to frown on somebody else's pseudo-scientific attitude toward scientific subject matter. You had several opportunities to correct yourself. You passed them all by.

Your addendum itself, taken literally, is perfectly valid and appropriate. It is the way you delivered it that makes it illegitimate. To say more would only be repetitive.

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #874 on: August 24, 2010, 05:47:09 am »
Tush: If you were not aware that the universe is expanding, indeed that much is well-established by observation of objects throughout visible space. I get the impression that you are dismissive even of that verifiable claim, in which case you should not be conversing with me but looking into an astronomy primer or perhaps setting up your own telescope. As for the last part of your post, I should tell you that I have a tendency to outright dismiss anyone who commits the trolling action of dismissing scientific "theories" because they are not "facts." Given that you are in India, you may not be aware that that tactic is used by Western Christians to make straw man arguments against pretty much any scientific theory which displeases them. In science, theory follows from facts. Theory is comprised of the objective interpretation of facts under the tenets of falsifiability and reproducibility. Finally, as I cautioned xcalibur, I will caution you: You are almost certainly not qualified to discuss cosmology with such casual familiarity. You would honor yourself and your conversation mates to approach the subject with less supposition and more inquisition.
Firstly, don't get religion involved in this; this is purely a scientific discussion.

Secondly, you misinterpret what I said. I wasn't trolling, just stating what I perceive. The article "concludes" that the Universe is expanding, and "conclusion" usually ends with "proven theories", not "theories need to be confirmed" and that's where I hit. The "Universal Expansion" theory is plausible and should be taken into consideration, but the theory itself cannot be taken as "facts" because the article doesn't give enough evidence to support it. If I'm missing something then you have the right to correct me, but instead you insist on patronizing me. What's wrong with you?

Man, don't be so shrewd; if you're not comfortable with explaining to me what I don't understand then just say so and I'll be quiet.

xcalibur

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #875 on: August 24, 2010, 06:49:21 am »
And third, I do have enough of a grasp on these issues to discuss them.

You've demonstrated your ability to discuss them...just not intelligently. I'm not sorry to frown on somebody else's pseudo-scientific attitude toward scientific subject matter. You had several opportunities to correct yourself. You passed them all by.

Your addendum itself, taken literally, is perfectly valid and appropriate. It is the way you delivered it that makes it illegitimate. To say more would only be repetitive.

You insist upon taking meaning from me that just isnt there. Perhaps you've argued with people who dont like a theory (such as evolution) so they reach as far as they can to say, well this 2% isnt covered so I can deny the whole 98% LoLz! thats not what im saying at all! It's like youre trying to push me into this ideological framework that does not fit.

I'm not saying "well maybe the universe is magically different because I hope so" which is what you want me to say. I'm saying-- in the field of cosmology, there are competing theories, some of which are favored over others. However, considering that the vast majority of the universe is made of stuff we know almost nothing about, AND considering that there is ongoing debate about ideas which, depending on what is correct, could fundamentally alter our understanding of the universe.. given all that.. it is entirely reasonable, rational and scientific to say that we cannot settle down on one conclusion just yet. you said "the question was already fairly settled to my understanding" but in the unique circumstance of cosmology, you cannot say that the grand theory is settled just yet!

Not sure what more I have to say to get my point across. I would also be interested in what is so pseudo-scientific about what I just said.. especially considering that I haven't rejected or fought against any theories, but rather pointed out the current state of cosmology.

Just because you want me to be an ideologue and straw-man arguer doesn't mean that I am.

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #876 on: August 24, 2010, 09:45:20 am »
Breaking the topic of Cosmology for a bit here.

Bad News: Drug addicted ex-Police Officer takes tourists hostage for revenge.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11062984
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11063160

Been watching the live telecast at home last night.

And secondly, people being to cats?! How could they!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11071277

xcalibur

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #877 on: August 24, 2010, 11:18:50 am »
good news: I just argued about outer space on a chrono trigger forum.

bad news: I just argued about outer space on a chrono trigger forum.

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #878 on: September 06, 2010, 11:47:05 am »
People know that reality can be cruel. Not just, "HEY, he took my candy" cruel, but sometimes "feeling hollow inside" agonizing cruel. But what makes reality worth living in is a single light of empathy and fun, the act of creation and the dream of standing on top of gigantic red mecha with a logo of a flaming skull wearing kickass glasses.

Hey, it's possible!


Good news

Back in my school days, even at grade 9, we repeatedly tortured into learning MS Office in Windows fucking 98, and nothing else. Not only that, they completely refused to teach us something more productive than 5 years worth Office and MSPaint crap. I vowed that I'll make sure the next generation have it better than me, but I suppose someone shares my views.

http://www.blendernation.com/2010/09/06/teaching-blender-at-india-school-for-4-8th-grade/#utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Blendernation+%28BlenderNation%29

Digital media, visual production and film-making, all for village children, 4th grade onwards. Opensource, you guys bring tears to my eyes. *wipes tears off and solutes*


EDIT: Post (with pictures) here!  :D http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=196315
And just because I feel so damn good about it I'm gonna quote something.
Quote
Last thing before i finish this topic, i recommend to all teachers to go for linux (ubuntu will be a good choice to start) and his softwares packages. Noway to stay under Win because the world is manifesting the beginning of a new generation, the "open" one ! And we must prepare those kids to influence that future !

Thanks to programmers that make it accessible to anyone, even the poorest, and to make it free and legal tu use ! the commercial bring down our civilisation, the virtual open our mind to share and learn more...the future is beautifull, isn't it ?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 01:26:05 pm by tushantin »

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #879 on: September 06, 2010, 11:05:02 pm »
I am someone who used Word on Windows 98. Not just for trivial stuff, either. I've done a lot of writing on that particular combination. Granted, it was not the best setup I have ever used, but at the time it was well up there, and even today I can look back and say "Hey, that worked pretty well!" What was your experience such that you would speak so badly of it?

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #880 on: September 08, 2010, 07:18:01 am »
I am someone who used Word on Windows 98. Not just for trivial stuff, either. I've done a lot of writing on that particular combination. Granted, it was not the best setup I have ever used, but at the time it was well up there, and even today I can look back and say "Hey, that worked pretty well!" What was your experience such that you would speak so badly of it?
XD To be frank, I'm not prejudiced against MS Office suites (even though I highly support OpenOffice). What I AM angry at is the refusal of knowledge unless a person pays the highest amount available. I like Office suites, but I DON'T like people teaching kids MS Word/Paint for 6 years (yeah, same thing over and over and over again). If there's no resources, why teach the same thing again anyway?

And secondly, it's not just schools: No matter how inexpensive any hardware or software is, no matter how much the people "need" something there's always one entrepreneur or another fixing the highest amount label on that info, hoping that if the public's desperate enough they'll buy it nevertheless. Once you pay you're aren't satisfied with the info because you realize it's not worth it: companies brag about huge stuff but turns out false in the end (note: I've been promised a B. Sc degree on taking on AAASP, because my institute had ties with a college before, but once I joined they just changed their minds).

So basically what angers me is that the rich tend to enjoy everything the world has to offer, while the poor, no matter how intellectually competent, always get left behind. This is why it made my day when I read about a French dude teaching the village children of Tamil Nadu the awesomeness of creating art. It's the sheer beauty of creation that defines humanity's capability.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #881 on: September 08, 2010, 05:16:35 pm »
Ah! That complaint was not at all from the direction I expected.

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #882 on: September 29, 2010, 04:29:51 am »
It's a sad chronicle...

Terrorism has now been an excuse for the politicians and police to fill their overflowing pockets with bribes. Those readily handing over bribes are secretly protected by the politicians against those who decide to live honest lives. The entire system is corrupt; there has been no talks about security whatsoever, just where the money's in. My boss decided to go to the protest but the police called him up indirectly blackmailing him to stay off the area, lest he opens his mouth. Even the Anti-Corruption group is completely useless. The system is taking advantage of the educated and unemployed people's necessities and imposing illegal conditions on the grounds of partiality. It's happening in broad daylight and even the president and the prime minister don't know about it!

Anything else? The Common Wealth Games. Look it up. Too humiliating for me to point it out here.

And my brother's good friend died two days ago, crushed under the heavy wheels of a bus being driven by a drowsy driver. Here, no matter how careful you are on the streets there's enough chance you'll meet your end so treat every day as your last day.

I was really hoping my country would move towards the light with enough push, but now I want this nation to burn to dust.

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #883 on: October 11, 2010, 06:41:22 am »
While coming back home I saw a poster. It's true, each person is endowed with a wing, and when two people work together they can overcome each other's weaknesses, enhance their strengths, and are capable of tearing the heavens apart. This is seriously a GOOD day for humanity!

Have you made your peace with humanity yet? Diwali's coming soon, mum wants me to wear a suit. Nah, I wanna wear a Kurta instead. I wanna look like a humanitarian just like my grampa.

FaustWolf

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #884 on: October 11, 2010, 06:46:47 am »
Quote
It's true, each person is endowed with a wing, and when two people work together they can overcome each other's weaknesses, enhance their strengths, and are capable of tearing the heavens apart.
You haven't been playing Xenogears by any chance, have you...?