Author Topic: Humanity: Good News, Bad News  (Read 120181 times)

IAmSerge

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #555 on: September 10, 2009, 09:00:07 pm »
Thats AMAZING =D

alfadorredux

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #556 on: September 10, 2009, 09:28:33 pm »
Obviously, they need to implement RFC 1149.

Truthordeal

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #557 on: September 14, 2009, 04:16:48 pm »

KebreI

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #558 on: September 14, 2009, 06:05:19 pm »
I don't watch MTV and I don't pay much attention to the industry because it pisses me off. Still I do try and not get too out of touch and I did watch the VMA last night and all it did was reinforce my impression of them. Especial since Taylor Swift is one of the few entertainers, today, that I actual enjoy.

I couldn't stand the host either.

FaustWolf

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #559 on: September 15, 2009, 12:12:48 am »
Good News: Jay Leno is back on. Oh, thank goodness.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #560 on: September 15, 2009, 12:41:55 am »

IAmSerge

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #561 on: September 15, 2009, 12:44:42 am »
Good News: Jay Leno is back on. Oh, thank goodness.


YUS!

ZaichikArky

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #562 on: September 15, 2009, 03:16:49 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y&feature=player_embedded

Did anyone check this out? This is that protest several days ago. That "Boston Tea Party" against Obama and the healthcare bill. God what a bunch of redneck idiots. I cannot believe how stupid these "conservatives" are. They give conservatives an even nastier image. You have to check that out just to see how ignorant these people are. When asked questions about how they feel about the health care proposal and why they're against it- what their logic is, most of them can't even answer somewhat sanely, if at all. The only thing they can make an extremely valid argument about is how Obama is the anti-christ and how that is writtenin the bible... yeah.

KebreI

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #563 on: September 15, 2009, 03:26:55 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y&feature=player_embedded

Did anyone check this out? This is that protest several days ago. That "Boston Tea Party" against Obama and the healthcare bill. God what a bunch of redneck idiots. I cannot believe how stupid these "conservatives" are. They give conservatives an even nastier image. You have to check that out just to see how ignorant these people are. When asked questions about how they feel about the health care proposal and why they're against it- what their logic is, most of them can't even answer somewhat sanely, if at all. The only thing they can make an extremely valid argument about is how Obama is the anti-christ and how that is writtenin the bible... yeah.
If you think this is limited to "conservatives" then your greatly mistaken. I've seen it all over the spectrum.

ZaichikArky

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #564 on: September 15, 2009, 03:27:59 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y&feature=player_embedded

Did anyone check this out? This is that protest several days ago. That "Boston Tea Party" against Obama and the healthcare bill. God what a bunch of redneck idiots. I cannot believe how stupid these "conservatives" are. They give conservatives an even nastier image. You have to check that out just to see how ignorant these people are. When asked questions about how they feel about the health care proposal and why they're against it- what their logic is, most of them can't even answer somewhat sanely, if at all. The only thing they can make an extremely valid argument about is how Obama is the anti-christ and how that is writtenin the bible... yeah.
If you think this is limited to "conservatives" then your greatly mistaken. I've seen it all over the spectrum.

This, in particular, is. There are crazies all over the spectrum, I'm not arguing that. I know quite enough about liberal crazies from my undergrad school.

Truthordeal

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #565 on: September 15, 2009, 03:34:07 pm »
In tandem with what KebreI said, you've got to remember that Youtube is often a place where things get taken far out of context. The channel name NewLeftMedia, should've given you an idea of what you were going to get.

I noticed that a lot of right wing groups did the same thing when liberals were protesting against Bush's war policies or PATRIOT Act. Whenever a certain party comes into power, you have fringe nuts. Under Bush you had the Truthers and the Katrina people, under Obama you have the Birthers and the fringe nuts that advocated Texas seceding. The important thing is that you don't get these people confused with the mainstream conservative or liberal.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #566 on: September 15, 2009, 05:23:14 pm »
I'll give you the Truthers, but what were "the Katrina people"?

Truthordeal

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #567 on: September 15, 2009, 06:09:23 pm »
The "Bush didn't react to Katrina in time because he hates black people, and not because he and FEMA screwed up royal" people. There was one special on either National Geographic, Discover or the History channel, in which people were talking about being able to control the movements of hurricanes. One of the headlines was, "Did NASA scientists control the path of Katrina," or something to that effect.

KebreI

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #568 on: September 15, 2009, 06:22:09 pm »
Nearly all cities try and rebuild and help after a hurricane, from what I've seen, but many people of New Orleans just sat on there on their asses wanting government help. I can't ever feel sorry for them.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #569 on: September 15, 2009, 07:09:00 pm »
The "Bush didn't react to Katrina in time because he hates black people, and not because he and FEMA screwed up royal" people. There was one special on either National Geographic, Discover or the History channel, in which people were talking about being able to control the movements of hurricanes. One of the headlines was, "Did NASA scientists control the path of Katrina," or something to that effect.

Ah, I see.

You know...I'd never heard of that group? I'm surprised you picked it, given the wealth of choices open to you on the left. Although...I say "wealth," but one thing that sets apart right-wing and left-wing "crazies" in America is that, at least in this point in history, the right is so much more robust about it...both in sheer numbers and in the degree of crazy. To wit, when Bush won reelection there was some chatter on the left about emigration. When Obama won, a sizable minority of the right started invoking the rhetoric of secession. (And, for whatever the opinion polls are worth, significant minorities of the conservative movement say they actually do want to secede.) Both sides have used language like "take back our country," but only the right has consistently set itself up as the exclusively patriotic, real America. In the debates on the issues, the left's most passionate excesses are usually centered on responsibility on the part of the powerful, or justice for the downtrodden, which at least have the benefit of being noble in intent, whereas the right's most passionate excesses are almost always centered on rationalizing abuses: "American companies need to be free to pollute as much as possible to remain competitive!" "American females need to be told what they can do with their bodies in order to preserve the fabric of our society!" "Welfare programs need to be cut so the needy have an incentive to pull themselves up out of the gutter!" "Illegal immigrants need to be denied all basic human services, rounded up, and shipped back!"

In the Bush years, many of the left's criticisms of his administration, however fringe at the time, later turned out to be true: It turned out that there were no WMDs in Iraq and no ties between Saddam and bin Laden. It turned out that the government really was spying on its own citizens illegally--even though there were means in place for it to be done legally. It turned out that we really were torturing prisoners in our custody. It turned out that Bush really had been briefed on the likelihood of catastrophic flooding in New Orleans. It turned out that the election in Florida really had been, though not outright stolen, rigged. It turned out that abstinence-only education didn't work and caused a reversal in STD rates among the young. It turned out that deregulation didn't work either, and cost more, leading to an enormous episode of wealth capture as incomes stagnated for the bottom 90 percent and skyrocketed for the top 10. And at every point, when these truths came to light, the right wing was there to argue positions that most people would have dismissed as loony, except for the fact that there were millions of people, fed by the right-wing media, arguing that we had to torture, we had to go to war, we had to do all this awful stuff, or else America would have been destroyed/bankrupted/overrun by commies/etc.

There simply is no equivalent movement on the left to match what exists on the right. At this point in American history, sexism, racism, xenophobia, and classism are all situated on the political right. Oh, there are bigots on the left, but no one in the liberal establishment gives credence to those kinds of ideas, and there are few if any activist organizations dedicated to advancing those causes. In contrast, on the right, credibility is granted from the highest levels, as media personalities and elected leaders routinely spout bigoted comments that are only thinly veiled.

Anti-intellectualism is situated on the right. There are anti-intellectuals on the left as well, including the most insidious kind of anti-intellectual, the anti-intellectual intellectual, and of course there are far too many dogmatists on both sides, but liberalism in general and most of its adherents in particular are generally positive toward the developments of science and technology, toward scholarship and academics, toward reading and critical analysis. On the right, life is an intellectual wasteland, and conservatives have explicitly set up scientists and universities as enemies of Christianity.

These inconsistencies are reflected in the kind of people we vote for. More and more, the elected right is being overrun by people who refuse to compromise, ever, and start from an extreme right-wing position, meaning that all compromise which occurs is from the Democratic side, and all such compromise is in a conservative direction. The Republicans behave like they're still in the majority, and the Democrats, out of some misguided sense of bipartisanship, let them get away with it. The Dems have made all kinds of horrible concessions in the legislative process, simply so that there would be any concessions at all...because the Republicans sure as hell aren't making any. This healthcare reform legislation is a perfect example: The Republicans want to make sure that healthcare reform is profitable for the insurance, pharmaceutical, and related industries...when such a thing is antithetical to the premise of reform...and they have succeeded in drawing the lines of debate on their own terms, so that we're arguing about death panels and rationing when, in fact, we already have death panels and rationing, on the basis of rampant insurance claim denials and the ability of individuals to afford care when their insurance won't cover it.

Many of our elected Republicans are on the record implying that our president isn't a citizen, and now they can't even shut up when he's making a speech before Congress. They give tacit credibility to the Obama-as-Hitler or Obama-as-Joker images that the popular right concocts. Some on the left once dressed up Bush in similar regalia, but never were those caricatures granted mainstream legitimacy by the leaders of the liberal movement. These days, on the right, you can't go more than a couple of days without hearing a high-ranking Republican talk about how we're living in Nazi Germany...which is not only a lie, but offensive to those who know anything about what Nazi Germany really was. The left, at least, was right about Bush: His administration took this country away from its democratic roots and toward totalitarianism, albeit mildly. The right, in contrast, has no legs to stand on, yet their accusations are far worse, far more numerous, and treated far more seriously by important public figures.

Thus, I want you to know that your use of extremism on the left to excuse, or divert attention from, extremism on the right is ill-founded. Never mind that the one does not excuse the other (the tu quoque logical fallacy): Even if we overlook that fallacy, the scales don't even come close to balancing. Liberal extremism and conservative extremism in this country look very different. It's not liberals who are bringing loaded guns to presidential rallies. (And, incidentally, Obama doesn't screen his audiences for like-minded partisans like Bush did.) It's not liberals who are advocating that we formally take away the rights of an entire class of people (in the form of constitutional bans on gay marriage, and the outlawing of abortion). It's not liberals who are rewriting our nation's history and trying to subject all Americans to the whims of the majority religion.

It's not us, and if you really want to do your conservative movement some good you will acknowledge that the American right wing is royally fucked up at this moment in history. You wrote this:

Quote
The important thing is that you don't get these people confused with the mainstream conservative or liberal.

Your suggestion is wrong. Mainstream conservatism has metabolized its fringe elements; conservatism as a whole has become a national disaster. And we in this country behave as if things are normal...as if the divide between Democrat and Republican is healthy. It's not. The GOP is sick. It's run by extremists. It's populated by extremists. Its popular leaders are extremists. Its elected leaders are extremists. The conservative agenda is disgusting to those among the rest of us who are paying attention. The implications for our rights, our economy, our environment, and our opportunities both as individuals and as a nation, are dire. If this continues, the isolated episodes of domestic terrorism now coming out of the right will become chronic, and then we'll really be in bad shape.

But you don't realize this. You're a classical mainstream conservative who doesn't realize that he's become an ideological extremist, because all of your reference points have shifted to the right along with you. So you're left to make comments like:

Quote
The channel name NewLeftMedia, should've given you an idea of what you were going to get.

This was in reference to a YouTube video showing conservatives, in their own words, and with their own posters and imagery, practicing their free speech rights. The march was hailed across the conservative movement as a significant and representative display of American conservatism. But you completely ignored this, instead suggesting that the left is taking the right out of context. To you, the problem is not what your own side is saying, but that the other side is misrepresenting your side's message. To you, all of this is a fake problem fabricated by liberals. To you, conservative extremism really is just some tiny fringe out there.

By yourself, I wouldn't pay it much heed. It's the fact that there are 60 million of you that has me so concerned.