Author Topic: Fate of Robo [Finalized]  (Read 6188 times)

Chrono'99

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2004, 06:22:15 am »
Quote from: Hiroshino
Also, if Belthasar arrived in the future in 2300 A.D., how is he in 2400 A.D.? And when we say Lucca and Lucca Ashtear, this is the same person in one right? Sometimes I was getting the impression that they were two different people..

Belthasar arrived around 2300AD, he then built Chronopolis and returned to 1000AD~1020AD. He had planned everything that would happened in 2400AD, so that's why he didn't need to be there (and hopefully for him, since there was the Time Crash...).

As for Lucca and Lucca Ashtear, they are probably the same person. Actually, everybody calls her Lucca Ashtear in this game. Kid doesn't, but it's probably because she's her "little sister". Plus Kid isn't very surprised to read that the letter was written by "Lucca Ashtear", so...

Personally, since Ashtear was never pronounced in CT, I think Lucca earned her last name some time between CT and CC. For acting heroically in the war of Guardia, or (at the contrary) because she provides stuff to Porre.

Note that Toma in 600AD was just called Toma and wasn't that famous, but he eventually got a particular grave at Choras cape, in which it's written "Toma Levine".

Hiroshino

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2004, 02:43:53 pm »
Quote from: Chrono'99

Personally, since Ashtear was never pronounced in CT, I think Lucca earned her last name some time between CT and CC. For acting heroically in the war of Guardia, or (at the contrary) because she provides stuff to Porre.

Note that Toma in 600AD was just called Toma and wasn't that famous, but he eventually got a particular grave at Choras cape, in which it's written "Toma Levine".


I always thought that Toma's last name was always Levine. Since, before you even do the Rainbow Shell side quest in CT, and you check out Toma's grave in 1000 A.D., it still says Toma Levine. But, if you didn't do the quest, people will just say how he failed to retrieve the Rainbow Shell, but he still has his last name. That's why I always thought that Lucca and Lucca Ashtear were the same, but her last name was never mentioned in CT like it was in CC.

Chrono'99

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2004, 05:14:13 pm »
Mmh yeah, you're probably right about Toma. But I don't know about Lucca, since she is in CC always mentioned either as "Lucca", or "Doctor Lucca Ashtear", but never "Dr. Lucca". In CT she was always just called "Lucca". It's not particularly conclusive, but I think she may have gotten her "Dr." title at the same time as her "Ashtear" last name.

Hiroshino

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2004, 06:20:27 pm »
I'm not saying you're wrong or anything but there's some things to consider, regarding the CT characters names. Now we know that Marle's name is Nadia Guardia and Magus' name is Janus Zeal. Robo's not human so I'll exclude him for this explaination. But what about Crono, Ayla, and Glenn? I'm more than sure that they would have at least have had last names. I mean, if Toma Levine, who is an NPC, has a full name, than I'm sure that our main characters all had full names. I just doubt that Square added them for whatever reason. I mean, what importance would Crono's last name serve in the CT adventure anyway, or even the CC adventure? However, Magus and Marle's last names served an importance because they are/were both of royalty. In CT, I'm guessing that Square didn't have a real reason to add a last name in for Lucca. But in CC, they might have added a full name since she served a more important purpose, such as creating the Promethius circuit or whatever, and then having Belthasar or whoever insert it into Fate.

Chrono'99

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2004, 06:36:05 pm »
Well, at the contrary, I believe people don't have last names at all in the game's world, except for the royal or special persons. Actually, Toma Levine seems to be the only ordinary guy who has a last name (well, there's also Norstein Bekkler, but I don't even know what "he" is to begin with...). That wouldn't be unusual in an RPG. Plus CT is very inspired of Dragon Ball Z (not just the character design), and ordinary people in DB/DBZ doesn't have last names. Anyway, I think Square would have put the character's full names in the game manual, if they had surnames. That's the case for all the Final Fantasy (particularly FF5), in which they never mention last names inside of the games.

That's my reasoning and opinion though, I totally agree that it's also possible Lucca always was called Ashtear. Mmh... and maybe she's called Ashtear only in the CC dimension, for some reason that the Time Crash provoked?

Radical_Dreamer

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2004, 07:00:57 pm »
It's also possible no one called her Ashtear because she wasn't on formal terms with people. She was simply called Lucca. Do you call your friends by their full names every time you mention them? I think that her last name started getting used after she became a doctor, and became of some note, so that there were people dealing with her in a more formal manner.

Hiroshino

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2004, 11:08:32 pm »
I just realized that all of the evidence for the fate of Robo is right here in this thread. All the evidence and answers, I think, are all right here.

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Did Robo die in Chronopolis in 1020 A.D. upon Serge's entrance into the Frozen Flame terminal? Was he literally the Prometheus Circuit?


Well, let's look over the given evidence that is presented to us in this thread...

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It might be difficult for Robo to relegate himself to the status of integrated circuit if Atropos were still alive, as he'd have a reason to continue living. However, it is obvious that in some way Belthasar recruited him for the job; due to machine logic and Robo's having saved the world once, he might be likely to answer the call of higher duty once more.


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Since Robo's data can be copied, I don't think that the Prometheus in FATE is Robo himself, but rather a circuit named after Robo/Prometheus. Lucca did make a 'mini-me' copy of Robo, after all. Also, the circuit was 'based on the initial Ashtear model circuit board, with extra logic added.' This leads me to believe that there may have been varying brands of Ashtear model circuit boards available in 2400 AD. The Ashtear models were probably based off of her little Robo copy.


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Just look at this direct quote from Lynx:   LYNX: That hidden circuit was based on the initial Ashtear model circuit board, with extra logic added by another scientist.

Well, if it were Lucca's design, it couldn't have been Robo. Robo was *not* built by Lucca.


I didn't add the refutation for the first one because not all writers would kill off their heroes to make a story more tragic. Some do and some don't and in my opinion, I don't think there's enough evidence to show this. Also, I didn't add the Prometheus-Ultimania Theory and its refutation because of just that, the refutation theory proves that the Prometheus-Ultimania Theory is null even though Ultimania guides, from what I hear, aren't always wrong but they aren't always right either, so yeah.

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Proof of the fact that Lucca couldn't have possible created a new Robo was that she had already stated that making a humanoid robot was too difficult, no matter how hard she tried. The Prometheus that was integrated with the FATE system was a joint effort of Lucca Ashtear and Belthasar, and thusly wasn't Robo, however perhaps the name could have been chosen to honor Robo's memory, as it had been seen that he was called this by all his "friends" in his own time.



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Oops, almost forgot to state that fixing something is far different from making a new one. Lucca knew some basic fundamentals of humanoid robots, having already progressed in the endever herself, which probably would have been enough to fix Robo, but making a new one was stated to be beyond her grasp.


Hmm, well there were other statements about Lucca gaining the knowledge to actually make another humanoid robot or that she was just being modest about actually being able to make one, but...

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It wasn't just Lucca's modesty, as she was muttering it to herself. Also, while it is possible that she might have learned somehow, I seriously doubt it. The game never foreshadowed this at all, and knowledge doesn't create itself, it is created out of a true need for itself. While it could also be a possibility that she did go to the future, and then gain knowledge on the subject, the game hints against this in what is considered the "true" ending, whereupon Crono's mother is lost in time, but just before that Lucca spoke of disabling it. If this was their intent, after finding Crono's mother she wouldn't have gone to any other time period other than her own. Most evidence points that she did indeed not build Robo, and that the Prometheus was indeed something else... But what, and through what means was this insight attained...  I feel that Lucca might have at least MAYBE had a glimpse of the future through some other means, and the not too distant future at that, that the FATE system could be a problem...


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Sorry, forgot to say what "it" was. I meant the Epoch, of course. BTW, funny thing, for some reason I've always named the Epoch the "Notch". Just a weird lil' bit of info.


Maybe she gained knowledge and I missed it somewhere, but this is explaining how she couldn't have had the knowledge. I mean, twenty years is a long time, and plenty of time to gain that knowledge, but whether she made a duplicate or not, that also shows that the Prometheus that was integrated into FATE is not Robo.

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And I thought that Prometheus in FATE being Robo stuff was obvious...In Chronopolis it says that Lucca (& later Belthasar) was responsible for the creation of FATE.

If Lucca could make a Time Egg, I don't see why she would have trouble with a Robo clone. Hey! I never even thought of that...She could even go to Norstein Bekkler and get a Robo clone from him, bingo! Instant robot duplicate.


They may have been responsible for FATE's creation, but neither of them created Robo. And if Lucca was able to make a Robo clone some way or another, this also proves that it wasn't Robo who was integrated into FATE and who was terminated.



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Also, the meer fact that Robo did integrate into the system makes this a possibility that it was done as an act of honoring his memory. Any thoughts?


It sounds good, however, all evidence is showing that Robo was indeed not integrated into the system of FATE.

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It's a strange coincidence that "Prometheus" is placed within FATE. I remember while playing Crono Cross that I instantly thought it was Robo.   Whether this version was created by Lucca, I don't know.


Evidence has cleared up the matter of whether this version of Prometheus was created by Lucca or not. Also, just because it may seem to be a coincidence that "Prometheus" is placed within FATE, doesn't mean that, that is Robo just because the Mother Brain system had called Robo, Prometheus. I also remember Robo stating his actual cereal number but I can't remember what it exactly was. I thought it was instantly Robo too when I had gotten to that part of Chrono Cross, but evidence is showing that this is not true.

So, with all of that said, let us return to the questions at hand. Did Robo die in Chronopolis in 1020 A.D. upon Serge's entrance into the Frozen Flame terminal? No, Robo did not die in Chronopolis in 1020 A.D. upon Serge's entrance into the Frozen Flame terminal, because Robo was never integrated in the system of FATE, and thus couldn't have died at Chronopolis in 1020 A.D. Was he literally the Prometheus Circuit? No, he was not. Evidence has shown that he truly wasn't integrated into the system of FATE, thus, Robo can't literally be the Prometheus Circuit. Whether Lucca created a clone of Robo by what ever means or whether it was some circuit, or whatever; we do know, by showing all the evidence, that it wasn't Robo.

Let's move on to the next issue presented to us in this thread.

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How can Lucca fix Robo? She only has experience with Gato.


So, how could Lucca fix Robo while only having experience with Gato?

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While I'm hardly suggesting that Lucca could repair damage to Robo's central logic circuitry, I'm reasonably sure she could tighten a few bolts and plug the green wire into the green port. I do believe that Robo was minamally damaged during the Day of Lavos, since it only seemed to take Lucca a few hours to fix him. He was pretty far removed from Ground Zero, so I'm guessing some of his internals just got knocked loose, but nothing was seriously damaged, except perhaps a few wires, etc. And while technology advances, a wire is a wire, and some things are pretty constant. She did have experience building robots, after all. It also took her quite some time to get him working the first time.   As for the R-Y Series [incident], I'm guessing that was mostly damage to his shell, which I'm sure could be fixed, or, failing that replaced. It's not like there were no other deactive R-Y Series robots lying around...


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Oops, almost forgot to state that fixing something is far different from making a new one. Lucca knew some basic fundamentals of humanoid robots, having already progressed in the endever herself, which probably would have been enough to fix Robo, but making a new one was stated to be beyond her grasp.





Well, now let's return to the original question. How can Lucca fix Robo? Indeed, how could Lucca fix Robo when she only has experience with Gato? Well, evidence is showing that Robo was minimally damaged during the Day of Lavos since it only seemed to take Lucca a few hours to fix him. It also seems like that no major damage was inflicted upon Robo. Lucca's experience with robots and her knowledge of the fundamental basics of humanoid robots was what aided her in repairing Robo all those times. When I say all those times, I mean times such as; when she first discovers Robo, after Robo is pounded by the other R-Y Series robots, and after Robo helps replant Fiona's Forest.

Now, with all that taken care of, I noticed another issue in the thread that was addressed and even resolved, in regards to Robo's existence.

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Since Robo was from the future, and returned to the future...Doesn't his existence get erased via the DBT (or whatever?)? Anything we see in Cross or even the ending in Trigger are just representations of Robo or variations, not the original.


Interesting. Robo's original existence would have been altered after the altercations to the timeline and dimensions occurred. And it would appear that his existence would be erased. However...

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Actually, under Time Traveler's immunity, Prometheus should have been the same Robo that helped Crono. This time, however, he'll come in to 2300 A.D. and be able to live his own life, as Project Kid is no longer necessary.


So now, after observing all of this and giving my thoughts on the matter, I think that Robo is still existing as his original self and is alive and well in the peaceful Future with Atropos.

On to the matter of Atropos..I seemed to have noticed something.

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Many moons ago, I posted that Atropos symbolized a FATE. The fates were known to "cut" the strings of someones life. When Atropos gives Robo the "Ribbon", she, in a sense, extends his life, as opposed to shortening it or cutting it.

Atropos = Fate


While that sounds reasonable, I just don't see how Atropos, who is with Robo, in the peaceful Future, could end up being one of those three fates statues at Chronopolis that was all sent back to 1020 A.D. due to the Time Crash. Robo and Atropos had each other to live for so why would they bother to be involved with Chronopolis? Besides, Atropos gave that Ribbon to Robo way before FATE was built. Back then it had been the old Mother Brain system while Atropos gave that Ribbon to Robo. FATE has the knowledge of the past, present, and future and probably created them for some reason relating to that or for some other reason. In another thread I had posted how they were the defenses to Chronopolis and my theory on all of that. Also, when you go to those islands to do battle with the fates, it also says, "Past", "Present", and "Future". FATE has the knowledge of the Past, Present, and Future. Just like the name Prometheus being a Circuit that was integrated with FATE, I think Atropos was just another name for one of the three fates. Maybe since Atropos represented the Future Fate Statue, I think, it was named after the Atropos from the Future. So, I beg to differ when you say that Atropos = Fate because Atropos = Atropos and Fate = Fate, and they are two separate entities.

I also agree with Chrono'99 and Radical_Dreamer in regards to Lucca's full name and name's in the Chrono series.

That is my opinion on all of this.

Sentenal

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2005, 11:34:25 pm »
From what I saw in the PS verision anime cutscene when they met Robo, he was beat up pretty badly.  Anyway, Lucca would have had to have a good deal of knowledge on Robotics to fix him.

Faulce

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2005, 11:38:32 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
From what I saw in the PS verision anime cutscene when they met Robo, he was beat up pretty badly.  Anyway, Lucca would have had to have a good deal of knowledge on Robotics to fix him.

They are talking about Robo's fate in Chrono Cross, not Chrono Trigger.

sarua

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2005, 09:50:49 am »
Lucca fixed Robo probable because his vital parts weren`t broken/smashed/destroyed.

I don`t get why chrono`99 thinks that ct was inspired by drangon balls  :?

Imho it`s clear that Robo from ct = Prometheus from cc. First of all if author didn`t wanted to kill Robo/Prometheus from ct why he called that thing in Fate Prometheus? no logic. And ingame explanation: Making humanoid robot is one, but create such AI which had Robo is another thing. And if she realy created exactly copy of Robo why she would call him Prometheus? This may happen only if original Prometheus is already dead by some accident.

So imho Robo from ct = Prometheus from cc or robo clone = Prometheus. In any case Robo is dead.

Sentenal

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2005, 02:18:31 pm »
Quote from: Faulce
Quote from: Sentenal
From what I saw in the PS verision anime cutscene when they met Robo, he was beat up pretty badly.  Anyway, Lucca would have had to have a good deal of knowledge on Robotics to fix him.

They are talking about Robo's fate in Chrono Cross, not Chrono Trigger.


the issue came up about Lucca having the know-how on robotics to repair, and possible build Robo.   Thats what I was talking about it.

Fox

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2005, 06:31:22 pm »
A couple quick points:
          Robo's serial number is R-66Y. I remember because I had the same opinion about that as Lucca ("COOL!") and as such named him that instead of Robo. Besides, what right does Marle have to say someone needs a new name?
          I'm fairly certain that Crono99 wasn't really saying that CT was inspired by Dragonball, but that because Akira Toriyama (the writer of Dragonball) made the characters, they would have some similar characteristics. Hell, if you color Crono's hair blonde he could pass as a super saiyan.

Also, Lucca may have aquired the knowledge of how to build humanoid robots from repairing Robo all those times.

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Fate of Robo [Finalized]
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2005, 11:03:12 pm »
This is how I would explain Lucca fixing Robo, if you need an explanation that works within real-world logic.  Much of the Chrono world doesn't, though it is apparently consistent within it's own internal logic, so I'm not sure how relevant this is.  Anyway:

Presumably Robo has some kind of computational thingy inside him that produces his mind, his intelligence.  We don't know what this is or what it looks like, but we can assume the logic that forms it is packed in at a pretty small scale, as in a computer chip or the human brain itself.  If it wasn't, the complexity needed to produce Robo's mind wouldn't fit inside his roughly human-sized body.  So if that was damaged, Lucca wouldn't have been able to fix it without a powerful microscope and a laboratory's worth of equipment, which she obviously didn't have access to there in the Proto Dome.  Aside from this, and possibly some complex or small-scale infrastructure to move his joints, it doesn't seem like Robo needs much else that would be tough to fix.  He needs some kind of power source, and a way to connect that power to the intelligence organ and the joints, but as Radical Dreamer said, a wire is a wire–fixing that stuff can't be too different than fixing anything that uses electricity, accounting for different standards and stuff in 2300 A.D.

I agree with Radical_Dreamer about the last names, too.  It seems like they're just used in formal scenarios.  I mean, it's apparent just from CT that various members of those respective royal families have the names "Guardia" and "Zeal."  Even though some of these names were never mentioned in CT, it's not like Square only thought them up for a later game (as they probably did with Ashtear).  Marle, Janus, and Schala's last names are never mentioned in CT not because they didn't exist but because no situation ever required their use, and the same seems to explain Lucca's last name, coincidentally or not.