Poll

So, we're nearly all males here. Of a woman 5' 8" tall, who is otherwise ideally beautiful, what is her most attractive weight to you? (Females may answer for themselves.)

< 90 pounds
0 (0%)
100 pounds
2 (11.1%)
120 pounds
6 (33.3%)
140 pounds
7 (38.9%)
160 pounds
1 (5.6%)
180 pounds
1 (5.6%)
200 pounds
1 (5.6%)
220 pounds
0 (0%)
> 250 pounds
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Author Topic: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?  (Read 14195 times)

Nicole_Flesher

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #75 on: July 28, 2006, 08:18:04 pm »
I am midway between 6 and 7 feet.
OH!! Well in that case you need a 6 foot girl hahahahaha.
You're are tall very tall

CyberSarkany

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #76 on: July 28, 2006, 08:24:18 pm »
Uhm, sry for offtopicness, but how many cm is one foot? 40?

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2006, 09:41:18 pm »

Nicole_Flesher

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #78 on: July 29, 2006, 01:55:47 am »

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #79 on: July 29, 2006, 02:05:36 am »

Tsk, tsk Josh. First I need to comment on your form on two points (although they are related). First, your poll is an invalid one, that is, you cannot draw meaningful results. Say I put down 140lbs, as the woman I find most attractive in my life weighs near that. Then you put 160, for the same reason. You then leap and say "Ah ha, Radical_Dreamer, you are part of the problem!" But the question of weight does not give the whole picture of fatness. If I am thinking of a woman who is 5'5" and you are thinking of a woman who is 5'8", neither of us is thinking of a woman who is particularly fat or particularuly thin.

If you review the poll, you will notice that 5’8” is the specified height. To answer for a woman standing 5’6” would be to answer a question that the poll does not ask.

I picked 5’8” as the number because I saw it as a compromise between my own preference for tall women and nearly everybody else’s preference for shorter ones—and also out of hope that women will eventually close the height gap between men. (I never do anything without putting at least some thought into it…)

You are correct; I did not see the addendum when I first glanced at the poll. My apologies. I do have to wonder why you hope women will close the height gap? Is this because of your realization that difference is the root of prejudice, and a hope that with the reduction of difference, the prejudice will likewise be reduced? Personally, I'd rather let natural selection decide the degree of sexual dimorphism in our species, as opposed to philosophical ideals.

Josh downplayed this, but yes, there are health problems that come with obesity, for example, diabetes. When I am looking for a partner, I want someone who is healthy. Obesity in my mind conjures health problems…

Ah, but that’s the prejudice against fatness. Just because fatness, in your mind, “conjures health problems,” doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not this is actually true in the real world. That’s the very crux of what a prejudice is! Perhaps, rather than ruling so many wonderful women out of your life because of it, a broadening of the mind is in order.

Is it a prejudice, or a property? All the research I have seen has shown a correlation between being significantly overweight and a lower quality of health. This is also true of being significantly underweight. The correlation conjured in my mind was placed there with observations of reality. I note that you do not necciarily deny the correlation between being vastly overweight and various health problems. So if you agree that being vastly overweight is unhealthy, and that finding healthy looking people attractive is indeed an inbuilt and adaptive instinct, I don't see why it is problematic that I do not find vastly overweight people unattractive.

That said, while I will not date a woman who is too fat or too skinny, though I have dated women who were both a bit over and under weight for their height, I do not think good will come of openly mocking these people.

That’s why you’re one of the good ones. Even when disposed to a prejudice, you would have no desire to prosecute its targets with the malice that others would. However, to a certain extent you will always victimize others, so long as prejudices continue to have a place in your view of the world even after you would acknowledge their invalidity. And whether this victimization is hostile or not, it still interferes with other people’s lives—if for no other reason than that you behave differently toward them, in the most neutral sense of the word.

It can be as simple as giving an inappropriate glance to a fat person in the grocery store riding in one of those wheelchairs, as if the act of buying food when you are fat is somehow worse than buying the same food when you are not.

I treat a lot of people differently. This is a fact of life. I don't treat my boss the same way I treat my friends, and I'd be fool to blur the behavioural distinction. The precise treatment being different is nitpicky; I treat all people with basic courtesy. Fat, skinny, tall, short. It doesn't matter. People get an equal start with me.

My vote is to let people live with the consequences of their actions. Too a large degree, weight is an issue of choice, via lifestyle. If I stopped walking, I'd gain weight. If I cut back on the candy, I'd lose weight. People need to just be responsible for their own actions, diet included.

That’s the libertarian in you. But I do not fully agree. Somewhere in between ZeaLitY’s police state where soda is a banned substance and your laissez-faire “Idahotopia” where fools and the weak are allowed to suffer and die because of their own ineptitude, is a solution that allows people to accumulate weight as they desire, but does not make it likely that such a lifestyle could occur through indifference or duress by lack of means.

So your goal is a society where fat people are fat because they chose to be fat? If that is the case, then there is less reason to not have a prejudice, as then fatness becomes a consequence of ones actions, which in any law-possesing soceity, is a just basis of judgement. It seems to me that the key difference between my society and yours is that in yours, the path to obesity is something the social order seeks to obstruct. Thus, yours is the society with the inbuilt prejudice against fat people. I hope you can appreciate the humor in that outcome. If you honestly believe that being excessively overweight does not result in a decreased level of health, I do not see how you can favor your society over the "Idahotopia."

ChibiBob

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #80 on: July 30, 2006, 06:50:09 am »
God, I hate potatoes. Remind me to stay as far the hell away from Idahotopia as humanly possible.

I'm your less-than-typical American female at eighteen years old -- 5'1 and averaging between 135-150 pounds, taking into account certain factors beyond my control. -cough.- I exercise regularly -- in fact, more than is probably necessary with two hours or more a day, four or five days a week. My calves are almost entirely pure muscle mass (which doesn't really help with the losing-weight bit, but at least I'm tone enough to keep a constant metabolism), yet my body mass index places me a mere five points away from being diagnosed as clinically obese. The BMI certainly isn't a dependable scientific measurement, but at least it places you within a broad enough range to know where you stand as a health-conscious (or health-dead-from-the-neck-up) individual.

The thing is, looking at me, you wouldn't recognize me as being overweight unless you were so prejudiced towards automatically judging based on appearances. I do have very large hips and thighs as befit a woman of my figure, yet my waist is comparatively small to others with similar body types, and I maintain a healthy enough lifestyle to keep it as such. I drink a very negligible amount of soda, my diet consists almost entirely of fruits and healthy meats such as chicken and turkey, and I only splurge when I've exercised enough to completely burn what carbohydrates I've taken into my system. (Hey, my Lucky Charms obssession has me by the proverbial collar. Cut me some slack, I can quit whenever I damn well want to.) My physical health in terms of blood pressure, pulse, and things such as vitamin and nutrient intake, while not Bruce Lee optimal, is excellent, and ignoring certain genetic fallacies with my heart and my complete lack of anything remotely resembling height, I could have participated in any sports-related activity I chose to.

Even so, I'm still viewed as being "dangerously overweight" or some such nonsense by both today's society and the narrow-sighted medical field. Yet I can see no immediate nor longterm risks to my health or means of living a relatively normal existance -- I'm simply built as I am, and if this is the weight my body and shape retains even with my active, healthy lifestyle, so be it. So my hips and thighs are large, something viewed by today's public as disproportionate and, therefore, automatically obese; so my waist isn't as narrow as the most recent actress/model to grace the cover of Vogue magazine even though you know that damn thing is airbrushed smaller; so I'm racked.

Okay, that might be one thing that could use some adjustment.

Other than that, though, I'm perfectly satisfied with myself in self-image, self-confidence, and as a big ol' "screw you" to any modern-day society that dictates rib-counting and protruding hip bones as the better alternative to frequent yet healthy eating and adequate exercise as opposed to either bulimia or die-trying cardiovasculars. Certain friends of mine who know of my weight (something I normally keep to myself rather than gloat to the Skinny-and-Emaciated-as-Fuck Club about), although having reservations about endorsing an overweight lifestyle, recognize the fact that I keep myself in tip-top shape, whether my physical appearance agrees with my efforts or not. Those who take one look at me and brand me as "fatty-fatty fatso," on the other hand, recognize the fact that they are innately retarded, whether that specific synapse lets them consciously know or not.

In all honesty, and not to appear rude or thoughtless to those still reading this nonsense I'm concocting at five in the morning, I couldn't give a rat's ass less about what you may or may not have judged about me after reading the information I've given to you. So overweight people are considered "stupid" and "inferior" in terms of physical motivation and intellectual reserves; I could tick off quite an extensive list myself of skinny people who belong less in university and more in a sanitarium. It's more a debate over whether people can accept themselves as their own individual self (not as how attractive they are to others, but rather as how attractive they are to themselves) rather than a conglomeration of biases, prejudices, and overall ugliness that others have built into figures, mere images utterly devoid of individuality and struggling to conform to society's standards instead of their own.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2006, 07:15:08 am »
5 points is quite a lot. I am 21 BMI, 5 points more would place me as overweight. So there, 5 points is a lot.

Rat

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2006, 12:59:31 pm »
... I couldn't give a rat's ass less ...

 :(

.....


Sorry, couldn't resist that bit.

ZeaLitY

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2006, 02:56:46 pm »
Aha, ChibiBob reveals the kickass side.

ChibiBob

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2006, 08:30:56 pm »
:(

.....


Sorry, couldn't resist that bit.

Aww, I'm sorry. I've never seen you around, so I thought I was safe with that quip. How about, "I couldn't give a Matt Shadows's ass less"? I'm sure that won't be offensive to 99.9% of the Chrono Compendiumites. As for that rogue 0.1% of the Compendium that might show concern? Sorry, my tact's in the shop for repairs.

Aha, ChibiBob reveals the kickass side.

Was there ever any doubt? -grin.-

GrayLensman

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2006, 10:41:27 pm »
Prehistoric hunter-gatherers had the physique of an Olympic athlete.  That is the natural and optimum condition of the human body.  People come in different body-types and ideas of physical beauty vary.  However, I, like most of us, find people who are exceedingly underweight or overweight physically repulsive.  This is no more an example of prejudice than being repulsed by the smell of tobacco is.

FFXSage

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2006, 11:45:33 pm »
:(

.....


Sorry, couldn't resist that bit.

Aww, I'm sorry. I've never seen you around, so I thought I was safe with that quip. How about, "I couldn't give a Matt Shadows's ass less"? I'm sure that won't be offensive to 99.9% of the Chrono Compendiumites. As for that rogue 0.1% of the Compendium that might show concern? Sorry, my tact's in the shop for repairs.


I'm one of the .1%. matt's actually a pretty cool guy if you give him a chance; go check out his CT fanart or something.
Also, he has vowed to give up his spam-like ways for the benefit of all.

Man, you people talk about being prejudice over weight issues and yet you constantly descriminate against fellow posters without giving them a chance to explain themselves. Maybe he has changed his ways? Let him redeem himself.

On topic: I'm not really very 'prejudice' at all when it comes to weight. I myself am 6'2 and weigh 165; I am also fit so that weight is largely contributed to muscle, as muscle ways more than fat. And, even though I myself am in decent shape, I still find some women attractive who are 'packin some extra pounds.'
I'll continue this later gtg fast. sorry

Ramsus

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2006, 11:55:39 pm »
:(

.....


Sorry, couldn't resist that bit.

Aww, I'm sorry. I've never seen you around, so I thought I was safe with that quip. How about, "I couldn't give a Matt Shadows's ass less"? I'm sure that won't be offensive to 99.9% of the Chrono Compendiumites. As for that rogue 0.1% of the Compendium that might show concern? Sorry, my tact's in the shop for repairs.


You know, most people would just have thought "Ha, not funny" and ignored it. Hell, some people may even have found it pretty funny. However, I've never seen anyone reply to such a meaningless joke as though it were serious -- definitely not with an entire paragraph. It's downright mindboggling.

Honestly, was that supposed to be your idea of a witty reply, or did you really just not get that she was making a really bad joke?

Daniel Krispin

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #88 on: July 31, 2006, 01:11:32 am »
Hey, according to the BMI, I'm not underweight. Well, look at that. I'm at the bottom of the healthy weight, to be sure, but not underweight. Heh.

Anyway, this is an interesting discussion, and I'm not sure which side I could see as being right. Heck, I'm a bit divided. Personally, I see a problem with the prejudice (after noting that I myself am prejudiced in this regard... I think. I'm still not entirely sure my attraction to thinner women is due to a prejudice, or a merely being more interested in those closer to my own size); however, I also see the logic in that there is a reason for certain prejudices, ie. it being potentially unhealthy. Now, if someone is 'overweight' but relatively healthy, good for them, that's fine. But really... I can't see that being the case in the majority of circumstances.

An interesting thing, too, what Ramsus said about the old stone-age hunters being the most fit... I quite agree with that. Actually, that was the basic idea for the Greeks, too. Their ideal male was tanned an working-type strong, from working in the fields all the day. It was also looked well upon because such sorts made better soldiers - and all landowners needed to fight (and a phalanx fought mainly by brute strength and pushing.) As for women, in ancient Greece you can see quite a diversity due to culture. The Athenian type woman would have ideally been paler and rather thin, whilst in Sparta, where their women trained to make themselves fit (so that their children would be strong), the ideal woman was fit and strong. I suppose these things really do come down to cultural differences. And in the end, I think I'll have to side with those saying that they aren't prejudices, per say, but rather perceptions. In regards to the goals of a certain society, a certain woman might be more favourable than another. The Spartans like their women stronger, and the Athenians weaker, as one example. And I guess this is what I see with myself, too - it is a reflection of the thing I value. I prefer women who are skinner, it is true, but also - interestinly enough - not really dressed up, with little makeup, darker haired, and with glasses, likely, and bookish. If someone were to ask me my idea, it would probably be something like that. Why? Because, at least in first impressions, that is usually someone that is more intelligent, which is what I tend to look for. It might be a prejudice in some regard, but it is a useful one for trying to find who would suit one best.

Oh, and in regards to what Lord J said about women catching up height-wise... actually, interestingly enough, 5'8 seemed to me to be a very short height when he mentioned it. You see, I think my twelve year old sister is something like 5'6 already. I bet all three of my sisters are going to be my height (6'0) when they get older. My mother, too, is rather tall, being at least 5'10. So if anything I'm more skewed to towards the taller spectrum of things.

And finally, in defence of my having mistakenly put down 120lb there at the beginning, I honestly don't know what a 120lb, or 140lb, or 160lb 5'8 woman would look like. I'm really, really bad for gauging weight, actually.

Rat

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Re: The FAT Topic: What do you think about this weighty issue?
« Reply #89 on: July 31, 2006, 02:39:12 am »

You know, most people would just have thought "Ha, not funny" and ignored it. Hell, some people may even have found it pretty funny. However, I've never seen anyone reply to such a meaningless joke as though it were serious -- definitely not with an entire paragraph. It's downright mindboggling.

Honestly, was that supposed to be your idea of a witty reply, or did you really just not get that she was making a really bad joke?


I think perhaps she was aiming to push in the Matt Shadows quip, which I rather enjoyed.
But then, you might not have.
But then, I hardly care.

....

You see, I think my twelve year old sister is something like 5'6 already. I bet all three of my sisters are going to be my height (6'0) when they get older. My mother, too, is rather tall, being at least 5'10.

I think most females hit their average height for the rest of their life around the onset of their teens though. But that might be dependent on diet or activites a bit too. Not completely sure.