Author Topic: Magic in CT and CC  (Read 52289 times)

Faulce

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« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2005, 11:37:25 pm »
Quote from: Fox
Thus when Spekkio teaches your group members magic, he simply teaches them how to harness their energy in whatever form he decides is appropriate. Thias is suggested by him saying "Well, you're a frog, so lete's give you water." He probably decided on Chrono's, Lucca's, and Marle's in a similar fashion. He didn't teach Robo because Robo isn't techjnically a living being, and therefore can't use magic. He didn't teach Ayla for one of two possible reasons: A.Giving someone from that early magic could potentially screw up the timeline a LOT. or B.He didn't think Ayla would be capable of understanding.

Well, Ayla was born before the Lavos-tainted humans existed. Lavos evolved mankind into magic harnessing beings via the frozen flame and his own manipulation. Like Spekkio says, Ayla existed before magic (not before the elements), so she cant use it, shes not evolved enough.

Swordmaster

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« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2005, 09:57:47 pm »
There's a Kid talk about magic that could be interesting in this discussion.
It happens when you return to Guldove  from the Zelbess and Kid is awake.
When talking about the astral amulet she talk about "power of ancient" "will power".
Could someone get this text for analysis?

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2005, 07:04:08 pm »
Sneff: This can't be...! Are you the rising star off the Magic Guild, Guile...!? What are you doing in a place like this!? Iff you're looking ffor work, I've got some great connections!

Guile: Hmph...I have no interest in simple hand tricks...I seek only enigma beyond human perception...

Sneff: Nuff! Every magic has a trick! That's what makes it interesting!

Discoman

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« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2005, 09:10:16 pm »
Couldn't Magic in the game more Genetic ability  rather than an entity? Or perhaps the only way you can Magic is genetically?
 Consider the fact that neither Robo or Alya can weild it. Robo considering that he is a Robot and Alya because she was born "Before magic". It makes no sense that Alya can't.
    But then there is the fact that "Why would we need Magic?".  Evolving usally helps you adapt to your environment. But Magic is not needed in 12,000 B.C. .After all the Un-Enlightned ones were surviving without it.
          Maybe the Frozen flame allowed people to use the energies of Lavos?(As in Magic is really just Lavos' power) Infact maybe the Frozen Flame gave the power to people?( Maybe it was genetically passed to people from Lavos) Could it have orginated from Lavos?

Zaperking

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« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2005, 11:06:44 pm »
No, It's the fact that her body and genes were not tainted by the Frozen Flame. That is why she can not use it. Even the reptites can't and could not. Azala being the most intellectually advanced was able to grasp tele kinetic powers. But later on, the Reptites conpensate their in ability to use magic for the elements that have always existed, whilst magic is more channaled will power.

ShoeMagus

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« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2005, 08:59:57 pm »
A thought: Magic is said to have came from Lavos. This strikes me as inaccurate. Magic seems to stem from exposure to the Dreamstone. I can imagine that at first it wouldn't be very magical with the primitive humans.

But continued exposure would do it. Consider that the Dreamstone's power was stilll usable in creation of the Masamune and this was before the advent of Lavos.

Just a thought.

GoAnderson

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« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2005, 09:14:38 pm »
Dreamstone, as I understand it, was used both as currency (I can't remember the exact quote) and as a symbol of power (I believe it was Ayla who said that the strongest received it). Going solely by that, I would assume that the prehistoric humans, sensing some sort of natural, magical pull to the Dreamstone, valued it more highly than other materials.

It could be that the Dreamstone nurtured planetary magic, and, perhaps, is contained in a distant descended form inside of Chrono Cross's Elements (I know nothing of geology; please don't kill me), so that would probably be the source of, say, Azala's magic (if we assume it was magic, and not psychic/timewarp power). Heck, this type of stone may even be a sort of cousin to the Sun Stone, which is known to possess natural magic, and thus holds enough magical power of its own to create such artifacts as the Masamune and Schala's Pendant.

My guess is that the Frozen Flame, a splinter of the ridiculously powerful Lavos, serves as a sort of counterbalance to Dreamstone -- they seem to be made of similar magical power, but the Flame is more predisposed to the dark side of things, being basically a piece of Lavos Lint -- and that, given the proper stimulus, the Dreamstone could serve as a medium for conducting the elements. This would also probably have something to do with the fact that the Masamune weakens Magus, with his powers inextricably tied to Lavos, and therefore the Frozen Flame, as its magic would react, dispel, and reject the magic that Magus uses.

Zaperking

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« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2005, 02:56:53 am »
Nope. Sorry.

1) Magic was always there befoer Lavos. It was just that no one was able to control it or harness it for use. The reptites had to depend on the Earths' energies to create their elements.

2) It wasn't the exposure to Dreamstone, it was the exposure to the Frozen Flame. The Flame has the power to make dreams come true. The flame not only advanced the humans minds, but it obviousally gave them the power to control magic, possibly that was a wish.

3) Schala's pendant is made out of Dreamstone, and so is the Masamune and Mammon Machine. Dreamstone is like a leech. It absorbs power and holds it, almost magnifying it. I'd rather think that because the prehistoric people had dreamstone for so long, that was why they were not so advanced if it was draining their power or whatever.

4) Red Stones do look good (Dreamstone) so hence a leader like person like Ayla would only be fitting for her to have it.

5) The Frozen Flame cannot be a counter balance since it has nothing to do with it. It'd doubtful if any other planets have dreamstone, so Lavos' Flame is just something that would have dropped anyway, or maybe wasn't supposed to. I think it wasn't supposed to. Lavos probably would not have minded if people didn't have magic, and advanced slower. That way, he'd have gotten more energy over a longer period of time.

6) The Reptites were always advanced from the start. They were supposed to win, but thanks to Lavos, did not. Azala would obviousally have more power since he is their leader.

USD1

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« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2006, 12:08:08 am »
Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that Lavos never used any magic?
Aside from the general Ultimate Magic Attack which probably was not elemental in nature but just an attack based on the characters magic defense. Yet, I seem to recall the Lavos spawns using magic like Lightning 2 and such.

I think the entire goal of Lavos and the Frozen Flame was to bring out magic in humans. It probably was a genetic trait that allowed some humans to use it without drawing power from elsewhere and that took almost 65 millino years for Lavos to get. Marle, Crono, Frog, and Lucca may have had the trait and yet no idea how to access their power until Spekkio showed them.

Since Lavos could not use magic himself it makes sense that the Time devourer naturally could not and had to use the powered it had gained from consuming the Dragon Machine that could control nature.

Elements seem to be more of a X-men Storm kind of issue as in controling weather and such, where as the magic of the humans, the magic Lavos wanted was not really related to the elements used in CC.

Magus22

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« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2006, 11:01:25 am »
Quote from: USD1
I think the entire goal of Lavos and the Frozen Flame was to bring out magic in humans. It probably was a genetic trait that allowed some humans to use it without drawing power from elsewhere and that took almost 65 millino years for Lavos to get. Marle, Crono, Frog, and Lucca may have had the trait and yet no idea how to access their power until Spekkio showed them.


Yes. I believe since there was obviously some decendents from the Zeal disaster, magic was probably passed down and was dormant in an individuals body. Spekkio has some sort of action to make the abilities in them re-surface, thus allowing them to use some magic capabilities. of course, over the duration of time since magic was never used, it was obviously not as superior to the magic capabilities of Zeal and its people.

If it hadn't been for Belthasar, there would be no FATE, and with no FATE, FATE would not have created the elements in which you can put on your grid to be used. Though I don't know the relation behind Summons and techs. Like Serge (Luminaire), or Lynx (Forever Zero), or even Harle with her Moon magic. Their techs do resemble some sort of magic capability. As for other past magic: we were told that the whole balance was kept in sync by Light, Fire, Water, and Shadow . . . EVERYTHING is based on balanced on these 4 magic atributes.

Lavos, combing DNA from everything and possibly with human dormant magic, with his own self, could create an ultimate Dreamless magic attack which did some considerable damage. If you have Robo in your party, this is kind of explained to some extent.

Elements are just created fabrications of magic like capabilities. Though I always wondered how they harnessed an Ultra Nova attack and also a Blackhole attack . . . my favorites :)

Zaperking

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« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2006, 06:45:02 pm »
Because Elements are also subcatagories of what the universe is made of.
From Lightning, your probably get yellow, white and green elements.
Shadow would have black.
Water would have blue.
Fire would have red.

Also, since elements are a part of the planets power, and were manufactured by the DRAGONIANS, whom FATE got the knowledge off of, the people in El Nido probably also learned that skill that way.

Magus22

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« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2006, 06:53:49 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
Also, since elements are a part of the planets power, and were manufactured by the DRAGONIANS, whom FATE got the knowledge off of, the people in El Nido probably also learned that skill that way.


Shoot! I stand corrected. I totally forgot about the Dragonians. I though it said that FATE manufactured the elements in Chronopolis . . . ?

AuraTwilight

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« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2006, 07:45:17 pm »
Lavos used a LOT of magic, actually. >> Like, shitloads. Just not magic the player can cast.

GrayLensman

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« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2006, 08:01:39 pm »
Quote from: Magus22
Quote from: Zaperking
Also, since elements are a part of the planets power, and were manufactured by the DRAGONIANS, whom FATE got the knowledge off of, the people in El Nido probably also learned that skill that way.


Shoot! I stand corrected. I totally forgot about the Dragonians. I though it said that FATE manufactured the elements in Chronopolis . . . ?


Chrono Cross suggests that the Dragonians and Chronopoleans both had a hand in developing Elements.

Zaperking

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« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2006, 03:57:27 am »
Quote from: Magus22
Quote from: Zaperking
Also, since elements are a part of the planets power, and were manufactured by the DRAGONIANS, whom FATE got the knowledge off of, the people in El Nido probably also learned that skill that way.


Shoot! I stand corrected. I totally forgot about the Dragonians. I though it said that FATE manufactured the elements in Chronopolis . . . ?

It did, but like I said, in a copy attempt of the Dragonians. I would have thought that maybe FATE would try to make a dragon god of their own, if it knew how atleast.