Author Topic: Magic in CT and CC  (Read 23088 times)

koolkame

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Magic in CT and CC
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2004, 08:31:17 pm »
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1. Robo itself (himself, i guess) doesn't have access to Shadow Magic, it's only said that his laser weapons produce a Shadow Magic-like effect. Just like how Crono's Slash tech produces a Lightning Magic-like effect without actually being 'Magic'.

2. The Elements are not artificial. They are processed and refined, but they are originally something close to an ore that comes from the earth at points of the earth called 'power points'.


Good points. When I meant artificial I should have said that Elements are used by non-innate users to access Magic. I had forgotten that they came from ore, and about Robo's weapons. Of course, hydor-electric power comes from nature but requires the use of artificial means like dams. And in the case of Elements, Grids.

Conmsidering the level of technology in 1020. A.D. Grids and Elements can't be that hard to make. Humans had learned how from the Dragonians so the making of these Dragonian devices may just a particularly difficult craftskill. Considering how little is said about them it is hard to tell.

It may be a "Gameplay" aspect but I always wondered how monsters were able to use Elements without Grids. True, they have Grids in battle but I really mean is the physical device that allows people to use Elements. Remember, Mel steals Kid's Grid when she is sick. Monsters uniformly use the same Elements in battle so having an actual Grid like the parties is unlikely. (And wierd. How could a Gloop wear a Grid?) The Grids may be made of a particular type of ore that focuses the energy of Elements. Tech skills in CC may be developed by characters through practice with their Grids since in the game more Grid Space and most Techs are learned with Star levels.

Monsters draw on Elements naturally because they are Innate Magic Users. Even party chracters can access the elements like V-Translanka mentioning Slash. To support this, most Techs seem to be derived from the character's innate abilities like Marle can use Aura to heal, a common ability in most Blue innates in CC.

Maybe the reason that party members have these abilities from the onset is that they are innate magic users or that all humans that are sufficiently evolved (through Lavos's interference) to utilize Magic. After all, few creatures from 65 Million B.C. in CT could use special attacks and relied on brute strength with the exception of Terrasaurs, the Volcano-type monsters and the Dark Tyrano.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2004, 08:36:18 pm »
Your comparison of Slash to an Element doesn't work, because it is a Tech.

And, I don't remember Mel stealing Kid's "grid", I only remember her stealing the Elements from her grid and what-not...

Leebot

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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2004, 09:51:41 pm »
I'm pretty sure the text actually said "grid," but not having access to a script or that point in the game, I can't confirm this.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2004, 11:14:02 pm »
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Korcha: What is it? Ya lookin' for something?
Kid: ...Hmm, yeah.  Well, the Elements I had on me grid are gone.  Oi, Serge.
Didja remove the Elements from me Grid?


She nevers says her Grid is gone, just the elements from it.

Also it would be impossible for:

1. You can choose to not go after Mel and still Allocate new elements.

2. Even after the theft, Kid still has her grid.

koolkame

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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2004, 01:43:08 pm »
Dang, sorry about that. My copy of the game is too counties away from me. Good of you to get the quote, GreenGannnon

V_Translanka is right, too. I get the feeling the creators didn't stress too much about the definitions of Techs or Magic. I really need to start playing again.

GrayLensman

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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2004, 05:37:53 pm »
Exactly what is an Element, or for that matter, an Elemental Grid, supposed to look like.  Are they even physical objects?  Does Chrono Cross ever show an Element other than the Chrono Cross?

The question if whether Elemental Grids are artificial is intriguing.  We have to remember that at every combat “move” other than a standard attack is an Element.  Elements are so common that every wild creature in El’Nido uses them.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2004, 07:02:56 pm »
Quote from: koolkame
V_Translanka is right, too. I get the feeling the creators didn't stress too much about the definitions of Techs or Magic. I really need to start playing again.


Actually, I stated that (Your comparison of Slash to an Element doesn't work, because it is a Tech.) because the game DOES clearly define Magic Techs aside from regular Techs, even those Techs that are magical in nature (like Slash for instance). Magic Techs get them helpful lil' stars by them, magical (it has been supposed that they are spiritual) Techs do not.

Leebot

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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2004, 08:10:22 pm »
The game is never clear on what exactly elements and grids are.

Using some artistic license, how about this: A grid is a magical rune engraved on the forearm of people capable of using magic (perhaps it is artificially inscribed, or maybe it is caused by exposure to elements or stars) that looks like a grid. Elements in their natural state appear as small gems with a color matching the color of their magic. When placed on a grid, they morph and appear as part of the rune. Stars are colorless elements with a few special properties:

1) When a character first comes into contact with a specific star, they become stronger and the grid may expand.

2) A character can use the power of a star to use a summon spell.

3) A star doesn't need to be in a grid for it to be used.

This is all completely conjecture, but it should work.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2004, 08:24:43 pm »
I always assumed that they were absorbed into the body, or "un-"abosorbed if need be, and that when they get stronger they are able to handle higher amounts of energy.

Leebot

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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2004, 08:57:15 pm »
A possible problem with that is that it would make it difficult, if not impossible, for Mel to steal Kid's elements from her grid.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2004, 09:19:18 pm »
Yeah, I'm working on that one.

Hadriel

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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2004, 09:54:16 pm »
I also think of magic somewhat like the Force -- though only in the sense that it is a universal energy field, or perhaps a quantum domain underlying all physical processes, including the creation of our universe and its current laws of physics, that is connected to another, higher dimension.

The Force itself is rather complicated, seeing as several new theories have been introduced regarding its usage and purpose by the people who write the books.  Most are simply good reads, and a few are bad, but several books and book series within SW expanded universe continuity are truly exceptional.  I could go into a giant spiel about EU continuity, but suffice it to say that such a discussion of Chrono's magic as the Force could go into some very complicated territory.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2004, 04:12:38 pm »
Quote from: Leebot
A possible problem with that is that it would make it difficult, if not impossible, for Mel to steal Kid's elements from her grid.


Not really...No one ever said 'only the user may allocate & unallocate their own Elements'. It's quite possible that Mel simply unallocated Kid's Elements the same way the player unallocates them in the menu screen.

Although interesting, the 'rune on their arm' doesn't quite work because there are characters whose arms we see, and low-and-behold, no such rune...

I say it's just like any kind of thing you can equip, hell, maybe they can just stuff 'em in their pockets to just have them available. No one knows.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2004, 02:07:06 am »
I wish they'dve just put in a guy that said just what elements were.

koolkame

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« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2004, 12:43:01 pm »
I always thought of Grids as badges they'd pin on their clothes and summon them mentally. ("Hi, My Name is Serge" on the front.) Leebot's rune theory may me think that they may be attached to the skin somehow, and as the party gains Star levels they are able to add more slots to their grid since they are becoming used to larger amounts of Magic, like muscles become stronger after use. Just a thought.