Author Topic: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space  (Read 12532 times)

CyberSarkany

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2006, 07:22:06 am »
The chance of instantkill an enemy but do no damage when it misses is always risky, that's why I never used it (cept the son of suns).

Magus Complex

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2006, 07:19:26 pm »
I think this discussion is heading in the wrong direction.  Magus' battle techs are only Magus' abilities that are practical for fighting, they don't encompass all that he's able to do, so personally I see no reason to pick them apart to the point of ringing eachother's collective necks over it.

Here are some of the facts:
Magus, if not all shadow magic users, does at the very least control space.

  +Instead of running when the party runs, Magus floats, most likely controlling gravity, or possibly magnatism, to do so.

  +Magus summons Lavos.  A summon is either the teleportation of a being from one location to the caster's current location on the same plain of exsistence, or the transfer of a being from one plain of exsistence to the caster's current plain of exsistence.  Any teleportation is a manipulation of space, displacing something form point A to point B.

  +Instead of running or even floating up to enemies that Magus wants to slash with his scythe, Magus does a short teleportation there.  As stated above, any type of teleportation is a manipulation of space.

So yes, Magus can manipulate space to a certain degree.  Time on the other hand is a trickier thing to figure out, since Magus has never directly used any such technique.  We do know a few things, though.

  +Magus' Lavos summoning gone wrong does propel everyone to different time eras, however...
  -This is probably due to Lavos' involvment, since we know chaotic, time-related things seem to happen whenever
Lavos is around.

  -Magus appears stuck in whatever time period the "Gateway Shuffle" throws him.  Yes the quotation in the last sentence was a reference to Cowboy Bebop.  It seems that Magus is stuck there, but there's always the possibility he always ends up going where he wants to be (at least while he's an adult).

  -Magus, disguised as The Prophet, forces his sister to seal a time gate.  He does not seal it himself.  This may be because he cannot, or it may be because Magus didn't want to blow his cover as The Prophet.

  +Magus' genealogy and the magical abilities of his family members is a strong indication, however, that Magus may be able to manipulate time.  His sister holds a necklace, either made by her or her ancestors, that is capable of manipulating the time gates.  Reasonably, Magus being of the same family means that he quite posibbly could have the same potential.

  +At the end of the game (the standard ending) if you have Magus in your party, Lucca assumes that Magus is going to go look for his sister (or, that's the implication anyway).  Lucca is extremely intelligent and would probably know whether Magus were capable of doing so or not.

So, like many things in CT, there is some flimsy evidence for both sides of the argument.

Edited for spelling and grammar.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2006, 07:27:45 pm by Magus Complex »

AuraTwilight

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2006, 02:51:23 pm »
That was all well and good except the geneology part. The pendant was made by the Sages of Zeal specifically for Schala, and it's powers come from Lavos.

Magus Complex

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2006, 06:05:49 pm »
That was all well and good except the geneology part. The pendant was made by the Sages of Zeal specifically for Schala, and it's powers come from Lavos.

Oh yeah, I was thinking Schala's family made it for some reason, thanks for the correction!  Everybody take out a marker, scroll up and scratch out that paragraph in my post... or just ignore that part of my post.  Your choice.  I'm feeling too lazy to edit my post.

Magus22

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2006, 12:08:15 am »
+Instead of running or even floating up to enemies that Magus wants to slash with his scythe, Magus does a short teleportation there.  As stated above, any type of teleportation is a manipulation of space.

Only on criticals...

Magus Complex

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2006, 09:16:07 pm »
+Instead of running or even floating up to enemies that Magus wants to slash with his scythe, Magus does a short teleportation there.  As stated above, any type of teleportation is a manipulation of space.

Only on criticals...

Criticals only or no, my point still stands.

Magus22

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2006, 11:49:17 pm »
Perhaps Magus emits negative energy that warps the space around him!

I am such a genius :lee:

Magus068

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2006, 07:12:15 am »
Or maybe that he moves so fast that you think that he's warping in front of the enemy. Yeah, I've this move before.

Magus Complex

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2006, 01:47:26 pm »
Or maybe that he moves so fast that you think that he's warping in front of the enemy. Yeah, I've this move before.

In DBZ-esque style?  I don't think so, personally.  Arguably, there are faster characters then Magus.  Ayla comes to mind or maybe even Crono, and even they don't move so fast that they look as though they were teleporting when they get a critical hit.  They could have easily made a critical hit attack animation that involved Magus moving to his target normally like everyone else, but they chose to have him disappear and then reappear in front of the enemy instead.

"Yeah, I've this move before."  Was this a typo or something?  I'm sorry, I can't understand what you meant by it.

Magus068

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2006, 04:29:32 am »
It was a typo. I meant to say "I've seen this move before."

Magus22

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2006, 03:43:56 pm »
They could have easily made a critical hit attack animation that involved Magus moving to his target normally like everyone else, but they chose to have him disappear and then reappear in front of the enemy instead.

Magus really doesn't "disappear" on a critical, and reappear in front of the enemy. We can still "see" him streak across the field and slash the enemy twice with his scythe. I think Magus is the quickest melee critical weapon hitter of the whole party.

ShoeMagus

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2006, 01:53:08 am »
I think the bigger point was missed in the scrutiny of how Magus attacks.

Magus summoning Lavos for one. He had to have done quite a bit of experimentation and research on Lavos leading up to the summoning. Exploration of the nature of time and space. Figuring out just where Lavos existed. I mean Magus knew that Lavos was buried deep in the Earth. But he also witnessed what happened at Zeal which would lead to questions about the Pocket Dimension. To get to Lavos, he'd have to penetrate into the Pocket Dimension or at least have enough knowledge to draw the big tick out of it. Either way he'd have to be able to open up his own Gate.

I think we can rule out Magus travelling through time before you meet him. Else he could have gathered resources from throughout time (things like the Sunstone which were considered antithetical to Lavos consdiering Zeal had them locked away). I mean really. If you had an  all consuming hatred for something, would you resign yourself to going in with a chance that your enemy might conquer? I mean he witnessed Lavos's power firsthand.

Besides he could've always gone back to 65 Million BC to take on Lavos then. Possibly changing the timestream, yes, but he was consumed with his hatred. And his desire to be with Schala again. Without Lavos thriving for millions of years, Zeal would have been different.





ZeaLitY

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2006, 04:20:31 pm »
Inquiry: Can Magus control time? If so, is that how Magil returned to the present in Radical Dreamers?

Case for:

*Instead of running when the party runs, Magus floats, most likely controlling gravity or possibly magnatism to do so.
*Magus summons Lavos. A summon is either the teleportation of a being from one location to the caster's current location on the same plane of existence. Any teleportation is a manipulation of space, displacing something form point A to point B.
*Instead of running or even floating up to enemies that Magus wants to slash with his scythe, Magus does a short teleportation there. As stated above, any type of teleportation is a manipulation of space.

Neutral

*Magus' Lavos summoning gone wrong does propel everyone to different time eras -- however...This is probably due to Lavos's involvment.

Case Against

*Magus appears stuck in 12000 B.C. Of course, he did want to stay there to get a shot at Lavos.
*Magus, disguised as The Prophet, forces his sister to seal a time gate. He does not seal it himself. This may be because he cannot, or maybe he didn't want to blow his cover as The Prophet.
*The Gurus manipulated time chiefly through intellectual application of magic. Magus is not a scholar, and would probably travel through time with their devices.

Magus068

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2006, 05:52:40 am »
This occur to me... If Schala can seal a time gate, would it be possible that the Zeal royal family can manipulate T/S? Both Magus & Schala can manipulate T/S in a way like teleportation & time gate sealing. And another thing, sealing a time gate requires to seal both ends of the time gate & both ends of the time gate is a different era.

Chrono'99

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Re: The relationship between Magus' magic & Time/Space
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2006, 06:59:27 am »
I think the case for Magus is not so strong. Ozzie, Flea and some Mystics float instead or running, and even Azala can teleport huge chunks of rocks and move them in the air at distance.