Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)  (Read 3403 times)

grey_the_angel

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2006, 03:22:58 pm »
It's pointless to bother with someone who can't figure out the difference between a standard you hold and a standard you use to communicate and lacks the introspection to deeply understand and easily explain their own opinions.

How do you judge art? Obviously, you're comparing it to other works, but what works (standards), and in what ways (criteria)? Without that, you can't communicate any judgement in a way that can be understood except by those who have the same background. That's all I've really tried to get out of the last several posts I made in this thread, but I've gotten nothing. I don't care if he isn't a fan. That's not even relevant. I just want to see him write a little art criticism to back up his opinion, because I loathe people who act and feel strongly over loosely formed opinions based on nothing but some internalized, subjective values they can't even explain.

Apparently, that's asking way too much of some people.
and he goes on and on.
what is the difference between the standard I hol and a standard I use to communicate then? ... oh wait.

Absolutely nothing. its the same damn standard. cause its MY standard. i judge it against other comic art: seems pretty easy to understand. but nope, to complex for ramsus to grab. is there a set standard? probably. I have dove into finding it, but pretty sure its there.

maybe if the art/story/ comic overall all sucks worse then those 80's comics. na.

and if it so pointless ramsus, why did you bother to continue to bring it up  from maybe 1 week ago? what's there to gain in having a long overdue rebuttle, after the thread had settled down?

your now just whining. this conversation ended a long damn time ago.

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2006, 04:49:12 pm »
It's pointless to bother with someone who can't figure out the difference between a standard you hold and a standard you use to communicate and lacks the introspection to deeply understand and easily explain their own opinions.

How do you judge art? Obviously, you're comparing it to other works, but what works (standards), and in what ways (criteria)? Without that, you can't communicate any judgement in a way that can be understood except by those who have the same background. That's all I've really tried to get out of the last several posts I made in this thread, but I've gotten nothing. I don't care if he isn't a fan. That's not even relevant. I just want to see him write a little art criticism to back up his opinion, because I loathe people who act and feel strongly over loosely formed opinions based on nothing but some internalized, subjective values they can't even explain.

Apparently, that's asking way too much of some people.
and he goes on and on.
what is the difference between the standard I hol and a standard I use to communicate then? ... oh wait.

Absolutely nothing. its the same damn standard. cause its MY standard. i judge it against other comic art: seems pretty easy to understand. but nope, to complex for ramsus to grab. is there a set standard? probably. I have dove into finding it, but pretty sure its there.

maybe if the art/story/ comic overall all sucks worse then those 80's comics. na.

and if it so pointless ramsus, why did you bother to continue to bring it up  from maybe 1 week ago? what's there to gain in having a long overdue rebuttle, after the thread had settled down?

your now just whining. this conversation ended a long damn time ago.

Since you asked, the difference is one is a generalized measure you use internally for comparisons based on experience, and the other is one you create by stating specifically that "X is better than Y in this regard, and Z is better than both." The first cannot be read or understood by others with different backgrounds, while the second can. Is that so hard?

I fail to see how completely equating the two is in any way "complex." In case you didn't realize, the same words can have different meanings based on context.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2006, 05:20:17 pm »
Then if you don't like Toriyama's art, say you don't like it. Don't say it sucks. This is the fundamental fault of Cross-haters. "I don't like the music" means "the music fucking sucks" to them. There is a huge difference. Toriyama has a unique and vibrant art style that proved popular with manga and anime audiences, and though Dragon Ball had some crappy humor and Dragon Ball Z was severely wounded by filler stretching, they're still successful efforts that a lot of people felt were worth watching.

Anyway, if you're going to make this MMO, there comes a time when you have to totally put your foot down and say "okay!" Are you a game designer / developer, or are you going to college? Do you have enough investment capital to fund developers? Is there even a remote possibility of acquiring the Chrono license from Square should any of the above be true? These are the hard questions. And if one of them precludes your ability to ever make this game, then you should probably let it be. Let me provide an example in futility:

http://invisionfree.com/forums/Spectral_Wars_Gaya/index.php?showtopic=1295

Some guy wants to make an elaborate expansion rom hack of Chrono Trigger.

Quote from: Duranix
Rediculously High resolution character sprites
Rediculously High resolution landscape textures
Rediculously High resolution Prop Textures
Rediculously High resolution menus
Rediculously higher quality sounds
Updated music.
Updated Magic attacks
Updated Weapons and their graphics.

Maybe we could have sprite grass that moves when you step on it. No idea how hard it would be to implement though.
we DEFNINITELY need sprite grass though, even if it doesnt move when you step on it. Should be easy to make animated grass though, all we would need to do is make a grass sprite with animation on it, and then set it as a character with no AI and no movement path, so it just stasnds there swaying in the air. Then make it so that you can walk through it.

Updated maps. With the new stuff in, the maps are going to look kinda bland (With the exception of Zeal). We might need fairly big textures ( I was thinking 2048x2048 textures) so you dont notice the tiling, and since the game is from a birdseye view, and quite far up, we could add extra walkthrough-able props that will add to the maps (Such as small rocks, little plants etc, GRASS)

We need new enemy sprites.
Is it possible to change the amount of animations that things do per second? For example, on the world map, the water sprite has 3 animation changes. Could we say, change that to 25 or so? and speed up the amount of frames per second, so that the water looks UBERLEET??

MAYBE more timelines? (If possible, we might make 2 versions, one where we add new timelines, new quests, new subquests, new minigames etc, and one where the only thing that is changed is the graphics, sounds, and music)

New animations. I got pretty sick of chronos only animation for attack. Perhaps it is possible to make chrono do comboes? Just add a few 50 or so extra sprites to his attack animation, and make it just pick a random one, so that he does a different attack every time?
More walk/run animations (if possible) Yes, chrono takes every step the same. Id like more variation in it.

VOICE ACTING?!?!? We have many capable people here, i remember holding the auditions for CTRP before it got closed... I think we could make this work.
Either way, if we all put our hearts and minds to it, we could get it done in say.... 6 months max?
Just an idea, if we tilt the sprites and textures, we could make it Psuedo 3d!
Different Character sprite sets for different timelines. When your in zeal, the wind blows your shirt around. When your in 1000AD, the wind is not blowing around like crazy, so characters need their own sprite sets for different timelines.

More Dungeons! Each with unique loot! Dungeons will each have a story to them, and you will actually entice you to do them, for the loot, the story, and for the awsomeness of everything.

New enemies. Dungeon fights will need bandits.

Unique damage system. Swords can be imbued (If they aren't already). If you hit an enemy with a sword that does fire damage, they will be set on fire. Ice, they will be frozen, lightning, sapped.

Also, Magic graphics based on your overall tech points. I hated how with one tech point, lightning looked the same as lightning with 100000 tech points. At one techpoint, the lightning should be barely visible, not spectacular at all. Just makes you go "Meh". At 1000000 tech points, the ground should shake, dirt should go blowing everywhere, the ground should collapse a bit, and the sound go BOOOOOOOM.

Nevermind that the CT ROM can't play mp3 files, let alone cutscenes, or that most of those requirements would involve editing hardcoded properties of the game. Nevermind that you can't add voice acting to an SNES ROM. And nevermind that this person is trying to orchestrate all this and still has no proficiency with Temporal Flux. Honestly, this is the most extreme example of the plague that hurts modding communities in existence. It's worse than past CT movies or that "RD-style CT" on our forums right now (he requested I give him a forum, and he hasn't posted it in yet). So what do I do?

Quote from: ZeaLitY
99% of that is impossible...Might as well make an RPGMakerXP game or something instead.

And what do I get?

Quote from: Duranix
Your forgetting theres still 1% there.

Quote from: GMMontex03
And thats why y0ou dont give up hope

And so we check back in a week and a half later to see how it's giong.

Quote from: Duranix
lol i havent even started it.

Nobody will tell me how to edit sprites.

He's not even trying to learn how to accomplish anything; he just wants to make the idea, have other people do his work and then take credit for it. If you're going to try and make a fan creation for the Chrono series, do something that can actually be accomplished and that you can build firsthand.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2006, 05:29:20 pm by ZeaLitY »

grey_the_angel

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2006, 07:03:17 pm »
Then if you don't like Toriyama's art, say you don't like it. Don't say it sucks. This is the fundamental fault of Cross-haters. "I don't like the music" means "the music fucking sucks" to them. There is a huge difference. Toriyama has a unique and vibrant art style that proved popular with manga and anime audiences, and though Dragon Ball had some crappy humor and Dragon Ball Z was severely wounded by filler stretching, they're still successful efforts that a lot of people felt were worth watching.

I have said the reason why I don't like: the story is weak, the art is horrible, and akira has zero imagination when it comes to character design, and lack the capcity to make even slight changes to his looks. all this, and ramsus is still complaining.

Like I said before, he's just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2006, 02:23:50 am »
What he means is, say you don't like it. Fine. But don't say it sucks as a fact. It can't suck as a fact because when it comes to judging any art form, it is based on opinion. Sure I can give reasons why today's pop music sucks, but in the end, it won't actually mean it sucks to every single standard and perspective.

Why make an MMORPG at all? They all stink (oh the irony!), and it'll probably end up making some one commit suicide, or worse yet, try and create a sexbot that looks like Kid.

grey_the_angel

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2006, 03:45:16 am »
What he means is, say you don't like it. Fine. But don't say it sucks as a fact. It can't suck as a fact because when it comes to judging any art form, it is based on opinion. Sure I can give reasons why today's pop music sucks, but in the end, it won't actually mean it sucks to every single standard and perspective.

Why make an MMORPG at all? They all stink (oh the irony!), and it'll probably end up making some one commit suicide, or worse yet, try and create a sexbot that looks like Kid.
I never said it was a fact. I called it my opinion several times.

but I resent that mmo comment: I'm playing ff11 right now. I don't think it stinks: its actually got a in depth story to it and requires some time and effort to do things.  I find the grouping forcing cooperation and developing relationship quite good, because it makes people do what an MMO is designed to do: create communities.

That probably the reason I prefer it over WoW. >.> that, and there no "magic spaceships". <--- not joking about that one. there are literally a race of aliens that came on magic spaceships.

plus ff11 actually gives a damn about its servers: WoW is kinda notorious in not giving two ounces of a damn.



RDM FOR THE WIN!



grey_the_angel

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2006, 03:58:13 am »
forgot one: any game where you fight an actual fight against the king of dragons on 3 airships like so
wins for the sheer kickassness of actually having to fight this fucker in the air.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2006, 04:18:47 am »
Fighting Bahamut in an undersea complex, while he says "we are more scared of you" or something is cooler. But the fact is is that you might've said it was your opinio, but your comments tried to put it off as that Akira Toriyama's work was shit universally.

FF11 sucks (in my opinion) more than a bag full of Thai prostitutes...

grey_the_angel

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2006, 04:21:10 am »
Fighting Bahamut in an undersea complex, while he says "we are more scared of you" or something is cooler. But the fact is is that you might've said it was your opinio, but your comments tried to put it off as that Akira Toriyama's work was shit universally.

FF11 sucks (in my opinion) more than a bag full of Thai prostitutes...
Thai hookers cost more. I think.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2006, 04:52:53 am »
Fighting Bahamut in an undersea complex, while he says "we are more scared of you" or something is cooler. But the fact is is that you might've said it was your opinio, but your comments tried to put it off as that Akira Toriyama's work was shit universally.

FF11 sucks (in my opinion) more than a bag full of Thai prostitutes...
Thai hookers cost more. I think.
Does FF11 on Xbox Live have a monthly fee, because if it does, its pretty stupid.

Magus22

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2006, 07:02:08 pm »
Fighting Bahamut in an undersea complex, while he says "we are more scared of you" or something is cooler. But the fact is is that you might've said it was your opinio, but your comments tried to put it off as that Akira Toriyama's work was shit universally.

FF11 sucks (in my opinion) more than a bag full of Thai prostitutes...

heh . . . Bahamut

If only that dragon actually looked like him...

grey_the_angel

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2006, 10:02:34 pm »
Fighting Bahamut in an undersea complex, while he says "we are more scared of you" or something is cooler. But the fact is is that you might've said it was your opinio, but your comments tried to put it off as that Akira Toriyama's work was shit universally.

FF11 sucks (in my opinion) more than a bag full of Thai prostitutes...

heh . . . Bahamut

If only that dragon actually looked like him...
like who? the giant fish?

bahamut's only a dragon in D&D and F.F.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahamut
« Last Edit: June 24, 2006, 10:40:32 pm by grey_the_angel »

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2006, 05:57:22 am »
Damnit! Leave a classic how it is!

I'm waiting for the 'dream team' to get back together and make a GOOD Chrono Trigger. You shant be ruining things by making them live.

DarkEpoch7

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Re: Chrono Trigger: Online ( What do you think?)
« Reply #58 on: July 04, 2006, 01:50:31 pm »
I think an MMORPG would be a good idea(I had thought of the same thing myself, even Chrono Online as the name), and I'd play it, but I would rather have a traditional RPG.