Author Topic: Official Side Quest Thread  (Read 7542 times)

Chrono'99

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2006, 12:09:22 pm »
1. Any other way Ayla could get some screen time for the datacube effort?

As I've said before, I think Ayla should be dropped. She appears too late and makes too much of a Chrono Cross joining. A reptile could make some great character development.

Backed up this way, this does sound interesting. In the revised plot topic, I was afraid that the Reptite character you proposed would seem too much like a CT Magus clone, i.e. a villain who allies with the party only out of necessity. Instead of this, perhaps he/she could be some sort of open-minded disciple of Yaluk, and Yaluk would allow him/her to join the party to help them preverse what "remains" of the planet. We could even first introduce this character in the Reptite 1 A.D., in which his temperance would contrast with Coyopa's extremism.

My only questions though, are: would players be pissed off that this Reptite's Techs would be exactly the same as Ayla's? Apart from that, I think this replacement does have more pros than cons.

2. If we use the DragDex idea, can we do something with it in 2302 A.D. and involving Robo? What about the Rainbow Shell?

I think this is kind of like the Lara stuff in CT: it's a conclusion to a greater side-quest (Fiona's Forest/The Datacube), not really something which stands on its own. Perhaps we could have Robo and co. only manage to decypher something like 2% of what's in the stuff? They would learn enough to forge some ultimate Rainbow Shell equipments (that Yaluk would still consider primitive, maybe). The other 98% would not be involved more in the game, but Belthasar would state that he'll continue to decypher them: this would be another factor explaining his immense knowledge in CC and how he could have planned the Chrono Cross' creation and the other weird things.

4. Zeal quest: sound good?

Where would this quest happen? It may be hard to make it a real side-quest since we'd have to find something optional that would require Magus' departure, and it's really a cutscene in fact. Converting this to optional sequences found in the initial return to Zeal would be hard too, as the party isn't supposed to be able to take a nap, and that chapter may be too early for the Magil transition. The Guru talk might fit in the initial return though. And if we can't fit the Magus stuff anywhere, we can still make it a New Game+ ending.

6. 1 A.D. -- ideas and suggestions? Throw in some legends? Marle?

Maybe we can turn the manuscript stuff into an independent side-quest altogether, revolving around the Chrono equivalent of... the Library of Alexandria. Some Guardians decide to burn down an important library in a recently conquered city, and the party has the opportunity to "steal" the books for Chronopolis, since their contents were lost and forgotten in history anyway. We could make it so that the player can't take all the books before the tower collapses in the fire, so that he has to choose which ones he wants from their titles. In Chronopolis, the books would be reviewed; some would give interesting historical information, some would allow Melchior to forge special equipments... and one of them would be the useless "Dalton Chronicles".

As for the Mystics, I'm not sure about putting the beginnings of the Mystic War here. I mean, the poor Mystics are always the bad guys, why not make them neutral for once, especially since Cedric is the "bad" one? Moreover, it would decrease Janus' responsability in history if we make him not the instigator of the Mystic War.

The Choras thing has potential, though I think the amount of "immoral murders" is starting to get really, really high. If we want to develop this idea anyway, the time change is not an issue, since 1 A.D. is only accessible from the TDC. We could easily prevent the party from reactivating the Gate during the side-quest, by having them say something like "let's wrap up this issue with Cedric first".

8. 1002 A.D. -- thoughts?

Perhaps the old knight could have led a harsh life in a violent and troubled era. Crono would tell him about the progress of society, and their own improvements of history. This would be a scene of "hope" to contrast with all the crap that happens in the game, to show that despite all the issues raised in CE, the party did succeed in many parts in this journey and in CT, and that civilization does try to improve itself. Almost like the reversal of Miguel's scene in the hopeless Dead Sea. Of course, the immense difficulty of this dialogue is to make Crono's sentences comprehensible with only the knight's sentences shown. I don't know to what extent this can be done, but it would give insight into Crono's motivations for "being the hero".

9. Lastly, is there somewhere we can involve Gaea's Navel? That did strike me as sort of interesting.

I wrote about how the monster of 11,998 tried to create a utopia that turned out to be Gaia's Navel.

How would we explain the presence of prehistoric animals, vegetations, and prehysteric humans, millions of years after their extinction? The place would have to be in the middle of the sea also.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 12:25:05 pm by Chrono'99 »

CyberSarkany

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2006, 02:56:46 pm »
About the ultimate beast: I don't think it is cool to just have someone say "Go kill the evil beast, maybe I can make something out of it.". Here is what I think would make this sidequest much more interesting(battle and story wise):

Well, in the Zeal ruins, it is said to have absorbed power, and maybe this absorbation also made this predator a sentinent being. A sentient being as uber boss is always cooler, anyways. During it's time in the ruins, it also learned about the past of Zeal, the guru's, maybe there even were some secret scripts of them and all that stuff.

The guru's order you to find and eliminate that evil being, yet they don't tell you what their real intention is(that it might be dangerous for their plan or something). The player/party trusts the guru's and their judgement and won't question it( maybe use that against the player).

Now, a "find and kill" mercenaries sidequest might be fun, but nothing memorable, so I would say add some stuff there:
The whereabout of this "Being" is unknown, yet it is known that it lived during the Dark Ages. When the party reaches that era, they can gather info from the people living there(maybe make this being like a legend). They find it somewhere hiding(or, this being knowing about Schala and Janus by reading the Scrools it found in the ruins, could also be at Schala's grave and await the party, just for the coolness). The party should have the option to fight it or not! But before that decision, lemme tell ya what I think this "Being" should talk about(that's why it shoudd be sentient, IMO):
 
What I actually want to let it talk about is anti-guru stuff, that hasn't been in any game as far as I recall. It should know the guru's, and hate them, for the reason...like...it is their fault that it's species died or something...This being should question the way the party acts, as a mere tool of the Guru's, so the party notices the other side of the coins, maybe make the player question what they did. I think we shouldn't just let the guru's be the "allknowing good guys" and even if it is "only" in a sidequest where the player is faced with this stuff.
(I kinda got the idea from Gothic 3, with the exception that the partydoesn't kill the gurus heh.)

Well, after that talkie stuff, you can either fight it(where it won't be using his uber strengh to own ya, because it wants you to question what you are doing, and you can hardly do this if you are dead):
-> if you fight it, and you win: it owns you Gade's style(Lufia 2), yet still lets you survive, and then dissapears(maybe jumping into the ocean if the battle is settles at north cape, because this being is supposed to be able to life underwater if I got the text from Z right)
-> You fight it, and lose, and it just dissappears(s.a.)
-> You don't fight it, it dissapears. Yet it gives you an item that is different to the one that you can win/steal, a very rare one, and stuff.

Now, this might be the intro for the Sidequest. You go back and talk to the guru's, that try to conveince you that you have to kill it and it is evil and stuff.

You now know what you gotta do: find that thing! To kill it or to get more answers.

I thought about challenges, so to add another yet different idea(if it is possible): How about defeating copies of the party?
In order to get to that being again, you have to fight copies it made(Maybe in the ruins where it had been hiding there was some kind of cloning machine, and it got your DNA after the first fight.)
There is like a Crono & Marle, Lucca & Robo and an Ayla, Glenn and Magus copy team. Every team is somewhere hidden in an era(whereever we want to have them, one team could be the team champion of the colliseum, that you can challenger after you beat it and after you started that sidequest). The fight will be fun with letting them use double techs etc.. For each beaten team(they are uber hard and stuff, for being and uber challenge, you know) you get a hint and a key where the being is now.  If you got all 3 hints, you can find it like in the Ocean's Palace(you need to know the hints to let belthasar know that he should take you there). The keys can be like the clones, you enter them into the tubes(just for the sake of seeing clones in tubes again, like in the Black Omen) in the last area to open a door where the "Being" is. This time, it realises that you are stupid and stuff and that you won't get that you are used, and that you were sent to kill it, and that it might be better to finish you off so they don't have you as a tool anymore. Like...indirect revenge on the gurus...or something...

Battles would be:
1.) (optional)"Being", a weaker form, maybe to judge your skill;
2.) The party copys: Crono&Marle, Lucca & Robo, and maybe even Ayla, Frog & Magus(it is the challenge sidequest nevertheless)
3.) Battle with the "Being", this time seriously.

Just an idea to make the ultimate battle more a sidequest and not only one battle. I don't even know if the clones are possible... it is just a small pack of thoughts, of course it isn't perfect and stuff, I just want the uber battle to be an important one(like...Dario in CC?). More or less.
And I used "stuff" and "like" just for the reason that I am not allowed to write that way in an english test.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2006, 03:15:51 pm »
1. Any other way Ayla could get some screen time for the datacube effort?

As I've said before, I think Ayla should be dropped. She appears too late and makes too much of a Chrono Cross joining. A reptile could make some great character development.

This is ultimately up to the fans. I can start a poll, but there was some criticism for even replacing Ayla with Schala last time. It's almost like we're preempting Ayla's value as a character and as a member of the original team. We also have an entire Reptite timeline created and Cakulha / Yaluk's reflections, so the reflections of yet another Reptite, though unique in some areas like Zeal, still seem to be a bit excessive. But Ayla's always got a unique perspective.

Quote
2. If we use the DragDex idea, can we do something with it in 2302 A.D. and involving Robo? What about the Rainbow Shell?

I think this is kind of like the Lara stuff in CT: it's a conclusion to a greater side-quest (Fiona's Forest/The Datacube), not really something which stands on its own. Perhaps we could have Robo and co. only manage to decypher something like 2% of what's in the stuff? They would learn enough to forge some ultimate Rainbow Shell equipments (that Yaluk would still consider primitive, maybe). The other 98% would not be involved more in the game, but Belthasar would state that he'll continue to decypher them: this would be another factor explaining his immense knowledge in CC and how he could have planned the Chrono Cross' creation and the other weird things.

Okay, should we make this the Rainbow Shell enabling quest or leave it for yet another trip? I think this decision will be easier once we decide on some armor / weapons, which I'll do next.

Quote
4. Zeal quest: sound good?

Where would this quest happen? It may be hard to make it a real side-quest since we'd have to find something optional that would require Magus' departure, and it's really a cutscene in fact. Converting this to optional sequences found in the initial return to Zeal would be hard too, as the party isn't supposed to be able to take a nap, and that chapter may be too early for the Magil transition. The Guru talk might fit in the initial return though. And if we can't fit the Magus stuff anywhere, we can still make it a New Game+ ending.

I was thinking about doing this with bitmath. Completing each sidequest adds up a certain value; once it's reached, Magus suddenly leaves (with perhaps one or two sidequests remaining). You have the option to find him. But if you go ahead and complete the other sidequests or move on with the final quest and chapter 24's storyline is triggered, Magus will come back on schedule. The battle with Schala is sort of throwing a bone to those who we promised would get a playable version of her, but the real purpose is the dialogue. But we can add more battles in the dream sequences if necessary (sounds almost like a positive version of our original Flame nightmares).

Quote
6. 1 A.D. -- ideas and suggestions? Throw in some legends? Marle?

Maybe we can turn the manuscript stuff into an independent side-quest altogether, revolving around the Chrono equivalent of... the Library of Alexandria. Some Guardians decide to burn down an important library in a recently conquered city, and the party has the opportunity to "steal" the books for Chronopolis, since their contents were lost and forgotten in history anyway. We could make it so that the player can't take all the books before the tower collapses in the fire, so that he has to choose which ones he wants from their titles. In Chronopolis, the books would be reviewed; some would give interesting historical information, some would allow Melchior to forge special equipments... and one of them would be the useless "Dalton Chronicles".

As for the Mystics, I'm not sure about putting the beginnings of the Mystic War here. I mean, the poor Mystics are always the bad guys, why not make them neutral for once, especially since Cedric is the "bad" one? Moreover, it would decrease Janus' responsability in history if we make him not the instigator of the Mystic War.

The Choras thing has potential, though I think the amount of "immoral murders" is starting to get really, really high. If we want to develop this idea anyway, the time change is not an issue, since 1 A.D. is only accessible from the TDC. We could easily prevent the party from reactivating the Gate during the side-quest, by having them say something like "let's wrap up this issue with Cedric first".

Haha, yes, we're certainly breeding a shade of darkness with Crimson Echoes...okay, this library idea has immense appeal. We'll be able to flesh it out further once we finalize the weapons and armor. I'll use CTEC to get a list of all the special requirements, and then we can make ultimate armors dependent on interesting things (like bringing back a certain book gives double resistance to magic, etc.).

Let's see...if we did do the Choras thing, it would have to revolve around Marle. Would toning it down make sense? We could still have the subjugation, but Choras turns sour so Cedric decides he'll march on Choras. Although this is a bit harder than simply involving life or death situation...nonetheless, Marle having to commit murder is almost punishing her. I'm going to think...

Oh! It just hit me, how we could make this really interesting. Most RPGs have a ship scene. We could have this drama take place on a ship! Cedric hosts it on a voyage around Choras so that no armies or forces can interrupt the proceeds. He decides to have the Choras leader taken care of, and Marle stops him. However, while the party are discussing things, one of the Choras leader's retainers hears about the stalled murder and reports to the Choras leader, who dispatches him by rowboat to the nearest port. The next day, two Chorasian ships show up and a battle ensues. It's fun, sun, and adventure on the high seas of 1 A.D.! Join Marle and her friends as they valiantly struggle to...

Well, that sounds great and all, but the issue is making a ship tileset. I *think* we have enough empty tilesets to do it, unless of course certain tilesets share subtiles. Then again, it could be easy to take the Zenan bridge tileset, simply copy it over another and adapt it. But this is all up to you guys. It's a little ambitious.

At any rate,

Quote
"Dalton Chronicles".



Quote
8. 1002 A.D. -- thoughts?

Perhaps the old knight could have led a harsh life in a violent and troubled era. Crono would tell him about the progress of society, and their own improvements of history. This would be a scene of "hope" to contrast with all the crap that happens in the game, to show that despite all the issues raised in CE, the party did succeed in many parts in this journey and in CT, and that civilization does try to improve itself. Almost like the reversal of Miguel's scene in the hopeless Dead Sea. Of course, the immense difficulty of this dialogue is to make Crono's sentences comprehensible with only the knight's sentences shown. I don't know to what extent this can be done, but it would give insight into Crono's motivations for "being the hero".

Okay, we can go ahead with this. I forget; is this the Zelda spoof map, by the way?

Chrono'99

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2006, 05:08:12 pm »
Yeah, I think it's the Zelda dungeon. Personally, I've never reached it in Zelda 1 though, so I don't know what's it about in details.

Even though I'm still not sure what can be done with the Choras stuff, I decided to mess around a bit with the Zenan Bridge tileset, without graphic hacking (for now?). How does it look so far?

[attachment deleted by admin]

ZeaLitY

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2006, 05:14:07 pm »
Pretty amazing. That's remarkable...we'd have to make hardly any changes to make it into a fine ship. We'd probably make it the 12000 B.C. palette since it is supposedly still a bit cold in 1 A.D.

My zeal for the ship battle is just that, after I thought about it yesterday, it seems we do get pretty thematically heavy there at the end of the game. It'd be a refreshing action sequence where hte player doens't have to think about much.

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2006, 12:18:17 pm »
That would look really great with scrolling layers too, similar to what I had going on in my old Zeal Battle hack, where the sea and sky (or just the sea) would constantly scroll to the left, since it's a repeating pattern.

A little tileset hacking would be in order to achieve the scrolling effect and have that boat, but without hacking the tileset, I did manage to make a rather nice raft sequence.

I uploaded a video to youtube, it looks better in-game, but you get the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qr4a7ldUT4
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 01:28:47 pm by Chickenlump »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2006, 02:01:25 pm »
Hah, I'm glad we thought of this. I'm going to add sidequest information we gleaned and note any other suggestions I have. DK is about to wrap up names except for accessories. That will leave the ending.

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2006, 06:19:57 am »
Hah, I'm glad we thought of this. I'm going to add sidequest information we gleaned and note any other suggestions I have. DK is about to wrap up names except for accessories. That will leave the ending.

I'm thinking, I'm thinking...

Vehek

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2006, 07:29:29 pm »
Some problems we might have to deal with in the Zeal revisit sidequest:
  • Janus doesn't have very many animations, which might cause some problems in the battle. So far in my tests using his sprites for an enemy, he faces up to perform most spells.
  • The Guru version of Gaspar, as far as I can remember, can only face up and down.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 02:59:54 am by Vehek »

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2006, 01:28:17 am »
If we're still doing the Shopping Mall quest, I have a neat little joke to put in there. Have a bulletin board and have some random time travel related crap on there, like the olde Wanted Ad. In case you've never heard it, but I bet we all have here it is.

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Wanted: Somebody to go back in time with me. This is not a joke. P.O. Box 322 Oakview, CA 93022. You'll get paid after we get back. Must bring your own weapons. Safety not guaranteed. I have only done this once before.

Be a neat little poke at usless history or what not. Or even the link to a new sidequest. Oh boy, I have an idea. But it's late so I'll post it in the morning.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2006, 01:54:59 am by nightmare975 »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2006, 02:28:54 am »
Hah, okay, though we'll change the address to something in 2302 A.D...

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2006, 10:05:17 pm »
Couldn't you just use his enemy that he has already started?  I'm pretty sure he performs spells correctly, unless i'm mistaken.

Vehek

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2007, 03:50:44 pm »
Maybe this should go under the plot thread, but how does getting back from 12001 B.C, work now (assuming the "Dragon Tooth is a shamaness" idea is being used)?
The only things I can think of are the gate remaining or smashing time eggs every time they return (bad idea; "Here's a time egg.", "Here's ANOTHER time egg", etc.)

Chrono'99

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2007, 06:47:33 pm »
Mmh, unless I forgot something, the party goes to 12001 BC only once, and once to 12000 BC too (Ocean Palace before the FF nightmares). That's only two smashing of Time Eggs, so I think it's okay. ...Wait, you're referring to the "Zeal quest" posted above in this thread? I forgot about it... It's another difficult event to place in the plot. I suppose we can fit the Guru dialogue in the original trip to 12001 BC, and recycle the Schala battle into Magus's FF nightmare.

But I'm not sure... despite all the plot revisions, the FF nightmares have always remained the hardest part to detail. Personally, I'm 100% satisfied only by Ayla's sequence; the others don't have much surprise or interesting twist. I guess this is what remains to be finalized in the plot.


EDIT: I'll remove the Denadoro Gate in 1002 AD for consistency. Time Egg portals are temporary, while the blue Gates are permanent.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 07:15:59 am by Chrono'99 »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Official Side Quest Thread
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2008, 04:08:56 am »
Taing this out of the spreadsheet since we can't cod ei tnow:

Casino Sidequest   After playing 100 times at the casino, a player will get access to the high roller room. There, one can play a game that will automatically end with a win, but it costs 500,000 to play, nonrefundable. Winning gets the player a GalaxyCard, and the player is told to take it to the right person in Choras. A lot of Chorasians will have differeing reactions to it, like...disgust, envy, and some will try to buy it. Upon finding the right guy, the PC leading the party will get to enter a secret room where a person will come in acting as if they're there for sex.
   Crono: A normal woman who doesn't speak like him. They exchange s. Crono pulls out his sword, but she's not interested. She pulls out a coke can and cheese, but he's not interested. They exchange more xs and leave.
   Marle: A Knight Captain walks in saying that the only man fit for a princess is a prince. He says he's Prince Lonestar (Spaceballs reference). She asks what the hell is going on, and he asks if she admires his chiseled physique. She freezes him in his place and leaves.
   Lucca: A Guardia soldier / Chronopolis agent NPC walks in saying he's here through the power of science, and asks if she'd like to discuss quantum theory. He moves in asking what happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable objects, and she shoots him back. He asks what!? Am I not smart enough or something!?
   Glenn: A frog jumps in. Glenn says, What the hell the Frog jumps around and then jumps on Glenn who says "Ooh, ahh, HEY!! THAT'S NOT RIGHT!" and tries to run. The Masamune falls off him at this point, and the frog then jumps on it, as Glenn says "HANDS OFF MY MASAMUNE!"
   Robo: A Proto hums in and announces, "I AM PROGRAMMED TO PLEASE." Robo is dumbfounded, and the Proto declares that "I HAVE BEEN EQUIPPED TO INTIMIATELY INTERFACE IN SUCH A MANNER THAT WILL PRODUCE ELECTRICALLY STIMULATED OUTPUT." Robo is chased around before leaving as the Proto asks "DO YOU NOT WISH TO DOWNLOAD MY SENSUAL APPLICATIONS,", yelling "I'm sorry, but you could have a virus!"
   Ayla: A caveman bursts in declaring "ME STRONG, ARE YOU READY?" and Ayla says "OooOo, challenge! Me Ayla, strong too!" She proceeds to beat the living crap out of him before he runs away whimpering "KRAG DONT LIKE THIS JOB ANYMORE!"
   Magus: A Naga-ette comes in and asks if there is a Dark Master here requiring assistance. Magus says, "Hm, I get it" and then asks if she brought sacrificial blood, ground-up Imp ribs and has performed the "seventh incantation". She says "Uhwell" and Magus goes to her, whispering "In pain there is pleasure," before she says "Okay, you know what? I can't do this. Sorry, ask for someone else next time." and leaves. Magus then laughs, saying "Heh, they think it's a game."

Since only one scene can be viewed at a time (whomever is leading the party), the GalaxyPass stays behind (the reason is that no player is satisfied, and there's a guarantee). The shady guy says if they won't enjoy it maybe they should find a pervert who will. It can be sold for 250,000 G or taken to the old man in Dorino pervert, who is just thrilled (the party wonder how he knows about it 400 years in the past). He gives the party a Peach, which he says must be taken to the third Denadoro Peak to be enchanted, bathed in prehistoric Sweet Water, and then consecrated by ten Earthbound tribal leaders. At that point a great demon will emerge from across space-time; if they win the battle, the peach will be purified and grant everlasting enlightenment. The party react to this sort of skeptically. The next time they visit Belthasar, he says "Oh, is that a peach?" and eats it without permission, saying "Whoa...this is...a good peach!" and "...Ah...the world is nothing but my gorgeous stage..." (MNSG reference)