Author Topic: Something I'd like to recommend  (Read 1559 times)

Legend of the Past

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Something I'd like to recommend
« on: April 07, 2006, 08:25:12 am »
Now, I know we usually don't advertise games BUT, this is a special case, because you might not hear about it otherwise.

The game I'll recommend goes by the name of 'The Way'. It's an RPG Maker 2000 Project, but with graphics I've never seen before, and two battle systems. I won't elaborate, as it's kind of something you'll learn, should you decide to play the game. Now, the game is split into episodes, 6 of them currently out. The sixth was released a few monthes ago, so the project is quiet alive. With custom music (Not ALL of it... But much of it, anyway) and graphics, and a very good and well developed storyline (And I mean a storyline that'll make you ask yourself what just happaned here), the game's creator, Lun Calsari is hailed as a genius by members of the community.

The plot itself takes place in a world known as 'The Way', and starts off very innocently: You play a Wanderer named Rhue, who seeks his lost childhood love along the Way. Rhue is willing to do anything to reclaim his love, but when meets characters and becomes involved events that will soon make him reconsider who he is and his existence on the Way he starts to doubt his way, and the more time passes and events happan, so does Rhue's view of the world and himself begins to warp and change. The Sixth episode has multiple endings, which can be accessed by fulfilling certain ingame requirments. I found this game series to be quiet the experience, and hope you will play and reach into the depths of the plot, as well. The games can be downloaded through here.

http://www.crestfallen.us/download.html

Maelstrom

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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2006, 12:47:24 pm »
It's deservedly considered one of the best (if not the best) RPG Maker 2K games out there.  Things can get a little slow at times, but it's still very good.

I still need to give Ep 6 a go.

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2006, 01:32:48 pm »
Quote from: Maelstrom
It's deservedly considered one of the best (if not the best) RPG Maker 2K games out there.


The best, I'd say. For a game not made by a company, the plot's damn incredible. Episode 6 has some crazy twists. CRAZY.

Quote from: Maelstrom
I still need to give Ep 6 a go.


Ah, you should be warned: Loads of secrets. And... three secret characters. As well as three different endings. And loads (LOADS) of Notch Items to find. I used The Way Walkthrough to find all of them... And I still missed a few. But the plot's good... Even if it feels somewhat disconnected from the rest of the Episodes. That's a side effect of the massive amount of sidequests.

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2006, 02:17:38 pm »
Quote from: Legend of the Past
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The best, I'd say. For a game not made by a company, the plot's damn incredible. Episode 6 has some crazy twists. CRAZY.


I think that's a grave misconception in modern writing: that plot twists make for a good story. The Iliad was spelled out from the beginning, but its classic nature did not diminish. No one was in doubt about the outcome of Sophocles' plays, but their power did not lack. And what was the glory of Shakespeare's best, such as Hamlet? Was it an unexpected twist? No, but the examination of the human condition. A twist, actually, is a rather cheap storytelling technique. For those truly in control of their writing, things needn't be hidden to the audience for the power to remain. It's only one step away from killing a character for shock value.

Just a personal gripe of mine - I don't like it when people equate unexpected twists with good writing.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2006, 03:13:52 pm »
I think that whether or not a plot twist is cheap depends on how and when it's used, and on how far from left field it comes. If it comes outta nowhere, pretty bad. But if it's appropriately foreshadowed and whatnot, I don't see why there's any reason why it shouldn't be done. If properly utilized, previous scenes that seem almost arbitrary take on incredible new meaning.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2006, 03:14:33 pm »
I think that whether or not a plot twist is cheap depends on how and when it's used, and on how far from left field it comes. If it comes outta nowhere, pretty bad. But if it's appropriately foreshadowed and whatnot, I don't see why there's any reason why it shouldn't be done. If properly utilized, previous scenes that seem almost arbitrary take on incredible new meaning.

Speaking of plot twists, there's always Oedipus.

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2006, 03:50:29 pm »
Quote from: GreenGannon
I think that whether or not a plot twist is cheap depends on how and when it's used, and on how far from left field it comes. If it comes outta nowhere, pretty bad. But if it's appropriately foreshadowed and whatnot, I don't see why there's any reason why it shouldn't be done. If properly utilized, previous scenes that seem almost arbitrary take on incredible new meaning.

Speaking of plot twists, there's always Oedipus.


You're right, it does depend - and foreshadowing it does indeed take away its shock, and rather give it depth in return. However, it should not be used as a basis for what makes a good plot. I hear all too often about how this and that has a good twist to it, as though that's what makes or breaks a story.

As for Oedipus... nah, no twist there at all. It might come out of left field to us who don't know it, but you have to consider the people to whom it was written. Every one of them knew the story of Oedipus - the outcome, and the overall plot, was never in question. In fact, even for those who don't know it, from about 1/3 on the end is painfully obvious - Teiresias comes right out and says everything Oedipus has done, he just doesn't comprehend it. The plot twist, as it were, twisted the characters, but the audience stood aloof and aware... and in that lies the tragedy. The audience can see the progression, groan at the mistakes and follies, but the characters seem oblivious.

GreenGannon

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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2006, 03:57:56 pm »
Eh, I haven't read the play. I'm just vaguely aware of the concept.

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2006, 04:16:56 pm »
Quote from: Daniel Krispin
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Quote from: Maelstrom
The best, I'd say. For a game not made by a company, the plot's damn incredible. Episode 6 has some crazy twists. CRAZY.


I think that's a grave misconception in modern writing: that plot twists make for a good story. The Iliad was spelled out from the beginning, but its classic nature did not diminish. No one was in doubt about the outcome of Sophocles' plays, but their power did not lack. And what was the glory of Shakespeare's best, such as Hamlet? Was it an unexpected twist? No, but the examination of the human condition. A twist, actually, is a rather cheap storytelling technique. For those truly in control of their writing, things needn't be hidden to the audience for the power to remain. It's only one step away from killing a character for shock value.

Just a personal gripe of mine - I don't like it when people equate unexpected twists with good writing.


Where did I say Plot Twists mark a good plot? A good plot COULD have (And possibly should... Predictable is bad) good twists, but it isn't some kind of characartistic... Besides, you don't know the plot, so please... I thought the twists were well built and foreshadowed. It's not like it's spat out. I, for one, had suspected it for quiet some time. But the plot takes a very complicated form at the end. Seriously, I haven't been this confused since Cloud's background.

I don't really see WHY you had to attack me. Make a point? I like the plot because the characters are well-developed. You can totally see why certain characters do certain things. I, for one, watched proudly as Rhue developed from puny Wanderer to kickass Plunger (I'd say Lyn... but that's a term of the game). I got really bonded to his character, and rather enjoyed how the plot grew and developed. And it grew and developed well. The past and present are connected well, and I really, really hope you could enjoy the game, too. As difficult as some of the mini-games COULD be...

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2006, 08:12:18 pm »
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Where did I say Plot Twists mark a good plot? A good plot COULD have (And possibly should... Predictable is bad) good twists, but it isn't some kind of characartistic... Besides, you don't know the plot, so please... I thought the twists were well built and foreshadowed. It's not like it's spat out. I, for one, had suspected it for quiet some time. But the plot takes a very complicated form at the end. Seriously, I haven't been this confused since Cloud's background.


Because it was the first thing you said when you said the plot is good. You said, essentially, it's got a good plot - the twist in the sixth episode was incredible. That's equating one with the other. Don't take it personally, but it's just me. Actually, I tend to dislike complicated plots - for the FFVII point, I actually really, really disliked that aspect of the game. Complexity does not make a plot good, either. I'm saying this as a writing critic, Legend - remember, I take issue with the writing of far more illustrious writers of fantasy than those of a RPGmaker game, as well.

Quote from: Legend of the Past

I don't really see WHY you had to attack me. Make a point? I like the plot because the characters are well-developed. You can totally see why certain characters do certain things. I, for one, watched proudly as Rhue developed from puny Wanderer to kickass Plunger (I'd say Lyn... but that's a term of the game). I got really bonded to his character, and rather enjoyed how the plot grew and developed. And it grew and developed well. The past and present are connected well, and I really, really hope you could enjoy the game, too. As difficult as some of the mini-games COULD be...


Oh, come on, Legend! Do you really think I was attacking YOU? I'm a writer - I'm naturally quick to be critical of a fantasy story. I'm very harsh in judging those written by others, even as I am for those things I write myself. If anything, it was an admonition to not consider a plot good based on such things as twists, which I would probably consider an amateur technique much of the time (keep in mind, those twists in my own writing are some of the things I dislike the most in it, and attempt to remove with the greatest furvour these days.) Now, what you said in this last paragraph... alright, that's all valid. But it's the mark of a poor writer that ends up just confusing the audience with twists and with things difficult to understand. Anyone can write confusion - it is far harder to write clearly. That's one of the things I never liked about FFVII... it seemed rather thrown together in so far as plot went. Indeed, I would consider the plot to be rather substandard compared to the rest of the game. It's not the mark of a good writer to force the audience to go through something a second time. I've read Homer, Aeschylus, Shakespeare, even Lucan etc. and understood them just fine; I still don't get exactly what was going in in FFVII. That's not genious, nor depth - that's a flaw, I think.

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2006, 04:37:03 am »
Complexity means it's like real life. Real life, Dan, is complicated. When you look at a situation and can't understand what happaned, the events were connected in a way that's really hard to understand.

But meh. I'm still waiting for E7 to answer all the questions that came up due to the twists in the plot.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2006, 04:39:42 am »
Quote from: Daniel Krispin
Just a personal gripe of mine - I don't like it when people equate unexpected twists with good writing.

I will second that. As a writer myself, I can humbly say that good writing is a little harder than some would have us believe.

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2006, 05:00:17 am »
Ugh. I just meant a well together plot can form a good twist, but that's not to say the opposite holds true.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2006, 05:06:48 am »
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Ugh. I just meant a well together plot can form a good twist, but that's not to say the opposite holds true.

I agree with you. I was not disagreeing. Daniel simply happened to make a universally veracious point, and I was compelled to laud it.

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2006, 05:13:43 am »
Just play it, I guess. For the twists... There are hints and winks towards it. It doesn't yell it out loud before the Plot, but an observant person can pick up all the hints, small and big alike.