discuss? help?

[Radical_Dreamer]

Butterfly effect is no more real in the Chrono world than fate is in ours.

[Burning Zeppelin]

It depends on what you mean by fate. I could say that God knows all of the Future, and you couldn't disprove that...without disproving God.

[Namara]

Why couldn't there be another timeline?  If we are following the principle of the Chrono World, then just the act of travelling back in time is enough to create an alternate universe, just like when Kid went back to save Serge.  There's no way for us to really know if there is another universe out there or not unless someone finds a way to cross between dimensions with an astral amulet and then come back and tell us about it.  But even then, chances are that noone will believe them.  It's an unprovable possibility, but it doesn't make it impossible.

As for the whole fate thing, there's really no way for one of us to come up with a universal answer that everyone will agree with.  Personally, I believe in a supernaturally guided existance where everything happens for a reason to guide us to where we are meant to be with the experiences that we are meant to have to do what we are meant to do.  There isn't any way that I could convince anyone of this because anyone could take my examples and simply claim that they happened by coincidence and wasn't fate guided.

[AgentOrangeKid]

thanks everyone for posting!
do you see the contradictory nature of this though--- how can we say that "fate" exists and "free will" do in the same breath?  how can something dictate where its power stops and starts if it is suppossed to be universal in the first place?  i mean, i know that is just me SAYING it SHOULD be universal, but it only makes sense to be universal....
but yea, sorry to skew--

how can we say that fate exists with EVERY second of our life changing our own/someone else's and then say that we have free will?  i mean, i know this is a total mindf**k with no answer, but how do we know that our "free will" wasn't actually a choice we were going to make.  do we ever have free will?

[Magus22]

well i def think that fate is situations that happen to you that you have no control over

and free will goes kinda like making your own personal choices in how you react to those situations

[CyberSarkany]

I think we do our own choices out of "free will", but the effect is chosen by fate.
Like I skip school for a day, and during that day I meet a person I wouldn't have meet if I didn't skip school. Later on, I realise how important this person became to me and I think back what "luck"(for some other people) it has been to meet him/her, yet I think this was fate. If I would have chosen not to skip school(=not meeting this person that way), I think fate would have chosen another way to introduce him/her to me.
Kinda weird way of thinking, but yet I believe it.

[Magus22]

fate seems to play little games with us every day, so it seems

i still havn't found the "one" yet

damnit Serge!!! u got Kid and Schala

i wish i could b like Serge

lol

[Radical_Dreamer]

It depends on what you mean by fate. I could say that God knows all of the Future, and you couldn't disprove that...without disproving God.

You've got it a little backwards, because you can't prove God. But it was fair to ask for clarification. By fate, I refer to predetermination of the universe. That is to say, that given perfect knowledge of one moment of the universe, and it's laws, one could derive the rest of the history of the universe perfectly. That everything that has and will happen were predetermined thusly at the beginning of the universe.

However, due to the behaviour of particles, this is not possible. Not only is knowledge bound by the Uncertainty Principle, but even with perfect knowledge of a given state, one cannot absolutely predict the subsequent state of a given particle. And there are a lot of particles. So there is no fate.

So I reject the notion of fate, not just on philosophical grounds, but on phyiscal grounds. Belief in fate is contrary to known physical laws.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Yeah, the concept of fate is a very strange one, one that cannot be defined exactly the same between two people.

[Mystik3eb]

Fate is the silliest idea ever. It's possible that there could be some higher being who can see all time and knows what choices we will make, but our choices aren't predetermined as far as we aren't choosing to make those choices.

[AuraTwilight]

I only believe in Fate when it's either A) In the most casual sense, like you're destined to die one day or you're destined to get hungry if you don't eat, or B) When it's a plot device, like the Chosen One story cliche.

[Magus22]

Fate is the silliest idea ever. It's possible that there could be some higher being who can see all time and knows what choices we will make, but our choices aren't predetermined as far as we aren't choosing to make those choices.

i wouldn't say silliest idea ever, rather fate isn't wat people think it is

in the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle though . . . this question is irrelevant

i don't know if our lives are predetermined, or if some creature from space is going to eat us

anything is possible

i am not all big on fate, but there are some branches that extend off it that are convincing    (i.e.) who i am today

[Burning Zeppelin]

Fate is the silliest idea ever. It's possible that there could be some higher being who can see all time and knows what choices we will make, but our choices aren't predetermined as far as we aren't choosing to make those choices.

Thats...pretty much the idea. I'm pretty sure that if there is a higher being, and if that Higher Being is of the Abrahamic Religion, then our time of death is pre recorded.

[AgentOrangeKid]

great posts....but... i just find it slightly unnerving when i read "scientific fact"-- ...how can one define AND slate a topic based on half-assed linguistics given by a self-proclaimed scientist?  accepting a "famous" scientist's  "theory" is what i would call "taking the easy way out"-- attempting to disprove an otherwise liberal//radical idea via anything defined by the law of man... sucks.  if hawking can come to the conclusion, which he did last year, that his black hole time travel theory doesn't actually "work"... i'm pretty sure most theoretical rhetoric spouted can't be determined to be 100% true.... i mean, what do we know?  we govern our lives by the laws and rules that "we" ourselves created.  

"FATE" personifying itself as an entity isn't true, but it is a safe assumption that forces operating outside of our own comprehension alter our lives on the daily...if you think that "complete" free will exists, i would urge you to play ouija and/or leave your house more.  

individual abstract thought > accepted scientific "fact"

:-\

[Burning Zeppelin]

Most things scientists say are based on fact remember.
And about "FATE", well, did any of us say it was personified? Or do you mean as in CC?