discuss? help?

[AgentOrangeKid]

is it okay to assume that, in both real-life and chrono worlds, that every action, good or bad, is the positive or negative result of another's action? do things happen for a "reason"... i mean, i'm sort of unsure on how to elaborate, or explain, but... i guess... had a boy not gotten into an automobile accident that left him legless, would he and his disgruntled, "i'm-never-there-for-you" mother have made ends meet...? if this is the case and was "SUPPOSSED" to happen, how is time is so elastic and non-concrete with "free will" as the vehicle in real-world and chrono-based scenarios?  i mean, i KNOW that there are deviations from normality as seen by CT, but can one argue that those were predetermined too? does predetermination have to be governed by some "supreme being"? if life is subjective and time and events are elastic, will we always arrive at an original "ending point" of one set of events despite deviating at some earlier point?  it just seems like every event in time is connected in some way--every choice and thought, but are these "our" thoughts, or thoughts from another "us" in a different "world", metaphysical or dimensional, coexisting with our own?

i'm hoping for both real-life answers + CT-engine explained ones.  mostly RL ones though i'd prefer to NOT have a linguist//semantics war i'm just looking for insight.  great articles and posts by all, sorry if this has been brought up-- and i'm sure it has...

[DBoruta]

This sounds like you're talking about the "Butterfly Effect".  While I don't totally buy into it, every action does have a consequence and I would say that our actions do affect others to a degree.

The world of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, however, shows much more emphasis on the Butterfly Effect - every action performed by Crono & co. or Serge & co. has a much more significant consequence due to the nature of the situations they are in.

[DeweyisOverrated]

I've never watched anime really.. I mean I've seen a couple random individual episodes of no particular show just because nothing else hapenned to be on at 1 AM, but that theory sounds exactly like the whole story behind Full-Metal Alchemist.  The quote in the beginning says something to the effect of "For every positive thing that happens, an equally negative action must occur for the world to balance out." or something along those lines.

[Namara]

I don't think this is the exact wording, but FMA says "Humankind cannot gain something without first giving something in return."  Its the basic principle of equivalent exchange.

I think the butterfly effect is completely plausible and supported in both the real world and in the CT universe.  Let me give you an example of how it is true in the real world.  In his senior year, my brother had to do a senior project, a big project where he had to pick a topic, write a paper, present a physical project, and show all of this to a panel of judges who decided if he passed high school or not.  My brother did his senior project on martial arts where he met a girl name Angie.  She introduced him to a LARP called Avalon which showed him the many wonders of chain maille and armor.  Now my brother has a fetish with chain maille, making jewelry and coin bags for money and has his own armory now.  He's even made the Serge vest (he wore it for Halloween actually and was lucky enough to find some CC fans who adored it).  The decision in the past for him to do his Senior Project on martial arts led him to a hobby that has the real potential to become a real business for him.

You can apply this to your own life too if you look far enough back.  I'm sure that a simple decision in the past has led to a large series of events that are happening today, almost like "It's a wonderful life."  If you're asking what would happen if you went back and changed that decision, it'd be assumed that the butterfly effect would take place and change everything, but there's no way to answer that question until someone discovers how to time travel.

[Magus22]

"If only I had done that . . . or this"

it would be nice to time travel, we make up an almost infinite amount of paths each day


although the theory behind the Blackhole seems convincing if I could bring up

yet crossing the event horizon equals certain doom instantly

what if you could go faster than the speed of light into a blackhole and cross into the singularity?

technology now isn't that advanced, but think about it . . . what would happen

in the singularity (center point definition of a blackhole) time is in a mix

yet with the action of the speed of light . . . time literally "stands still"

it's possible . . . if and only if we can harness the technique of traveling faster than light, then we'll be in a far better place to dictate terms

[Burning Zeppelin]

Of course the idea of every action has a reaction (hereafter known as eahar) is true. I believe in Fate, true, but Fate just ends with what I chose, and what the consequence was, so it doesn't effect this. Oh, and its not the Butterfly Effect, that is something slightly different, to do with the Chaos Theory. The Butterfly Effect is more of this "small thing, big attitude" thingy. Anyway, the EAHAR is obviously true. TRUE STORY TIME: Friend of a friend of mine lives in London. She was going to work, and she has something in her eye. She missed her bus. When she caught the later bus, she saw that something was wrong. Guess what? That bus was bombed!

And about the CT universe, if you put it into the context as a real universe, I wouldn't see why it wouldn't be true. But if you put it in game sense...I dont think freedom elastic storyline (as seen in Farenheit) was around then

[JossiRossi]

I have beliefs more complicated than this but it all boils down to this.

Life is what you make of it, you will never know if God, fate, or an afterlife exist for certain until you die, and if you're dead this hardly matters. The only purpose is the purpose a person chooses.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Well, most people of religion will probably disagree with you. In fact, we are supposed to find out God in this realm. Therefore that is the purpose of a religious. A nihilist however, yes their life is what they make of it, whether it be a confused pile of crap, tainted by their own desires, or to finally make a mod of Chrono Trigger, which they believe will be so fucking awesome that it would blow the skirts off Chrono fans around the world, but will in fact be another generic rendition of why Crono becomes fat.

[Sentenal]

If your talking about the butterfly effect, that I don't think it works in the Chronoverse.  Of course cause and effect happens, but butterfly effect?  No.

For example, if you travel back in time to 65,000,000bc, and kill a monster, the butterfly effect should radically change the future.  But you can go all the way forward to 2300ad without seeing any changes.  Small changes in the past never seem to make the course of history change.  Even some major changes don't seem to effect the future (save the forest, and history progresses similarly as it had before, just with a forest) to an huge extent, although it does effect it.

[Magus22]

u mean BC right . . .


not all the time will this happen though

even the slightest change could alter our time displacement easily

My Question:

If we have a future in THIS world, do you possibly think some1 from OUR future could travel back in time, and maybe say stop 9-11-01?

hypothetically speaking . . . don't eat me up on this

nothing like this has happened, yet

but do YOU think it ever could? something chatostrophic which changes our world/planet forever

"someone" travels back to correct this without being noticed and corrects a certain point of time flow

what's your take on it?

[AuraTwilight]

If that was ever going to happen, we wouldn't remember 9/11 anymore because it never happened in our universe.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Well duh, Magus. It doesn't exist in the Chrono Universe. Because, well, its a game.
And of course if someone time travels to the past and changes something it will have an effect. It is not the Butterfly Effect I believe, I'm pretty sure that BE is only for the present. And the whole thing is a theory

[Sentenal]

u mean BC right . . .


not all the time will this happen though

even the slightest change could alter our time displacement easily

My Question:

If we have a future in THIS world, do you possibly think some1 from OUR future could travel back in time, and maybe say stop 9-11-01?

hypothetically speaking . . . don't eat me up on this

nothing like this has happened, yet

but do YOU think it ever could? something chatostrophic which changes our world/planet forever

"someone" travels back to correct this without being noticed and corrects a certain point of time flow

what's your take on it?

heh, yeah, BC, not AD.

Anyway, we don't have any way to test it in our world, so I don't know.  However, we do know it doesn't happen that way in Chrono Trigger.

[Magus22]

think away from CT for a bit

so ur all saying every1 wouldn't remember 9-11 if that "someone" had changed this

this is cool

idk, something popped in my head that if "someone" did do that, then possibly another time line/world would be created

our world in which we live in today and this other world that exists hadn't the terrorists attacks occurred

(note the CC comparison, but steer clear from any referance from it)

what I really want to get @ is, before I ever played CC, i always thought there was an opposite "me" somewhere, doing bad

wouldn't that be something . . .

[Burning Zeppelin]

Nah, I'm pretty sure there will only be one timeline. The alternate timeline is too Donnie Darkoish.