Author Topic: Special Names in the Chrono Series  (Read 8279 times)

ChronoMagus

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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2006, 07:23:57 pm »
Well the west definitely can't allude it to anything, (Hash like Hash Browns?)  but the other names it is quite possible.
@Daniel: Yes Persepolis is a beautfiul place.  It was a shame I came too late in the day, so they did not allow me to explore.  They close it off a lot now, in order to protect it.

Dain

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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2006, 08:25:04 pm »
Quote from: Daniel Krispin
Well, it's only natural. For the Eastern audience, their own traditions are called upon, and the allusions of name and the like make sense. For the more Western, it must be changed so that the same ideas are evoked.


Though the original intention of the author may have been a bit skewed, since I don't recall the American developers collaborating with Kato and co.

ChronoMagus

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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2006, 07:14:11 pm »
We can hope that the author's intent wasn't overly screwed up...  and I doubt it made the game truly "worse."  The fact is when you translate anything you screw up the meaning... you can't translate many jokes into different languages without losing meaning.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2006, 07:29:23 pm »
Plus, the author's intent was set towards Japanese players, not Anglo-Saxon.

Darth Mongoose

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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2006, 11:58:50 pm »
The changes made to the names, I think were all totally correct. I mean, would you really want Ozzie, Slash and Flea to remain with the names 'Vinegar', 'Soy Sauce' and 'Mayonaise'? Would you have any idea why Glenn, when in the form of a Frog was called 'Kaeru' if they hadn't translated his name? Also, personally I think 'Shala' is a much more interesting, exotic and memorable name than 'Sara'.
The only name change I disagree with is 'Grandleon' to 'Masamune', simply because it  doesn't really make sense to name a broadsword after a famous legendary Katana. Grandleon suited Frog's medievil ethos better and was more original sounding.

Zaperking

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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2006, 01:37:54 am »
Quote from: Darth Mongoose
The changes made to the names, I think were all totally correct. I mean, would you really want Ozzie, Slash and Flea to remain with the names 'Vinegar', 'Soy Sauce' and 'Mayonaise'? Would you have any idea why Glenn, when in the form of a Frog was called 'Kaeru' if they hadn't translated his name? Also, personally I think 'Shala' is a much more interesting, exotic and memorable name than 'Sara'.
The only name change I disagree with is 'Grandleon' to 'Masamune', simply because it  doesn't really make sense to name a broadsword after a famous legendary Katana. Grandleon suited Frog's medievil ethos better and was more original sounding.


Personally, I wouldn't mind either. The english names have just been set into our minds, so we'd be bias towards them and disagree with the Japanese version. But since it was made for japanese people, you have to respect their version too.

Oh and don't forget that Kaeru means Frog in Japanese, so they actually translated it correctly so I don't get your point.. lol.
Sara makes sence in a way, since it means Princess too, but not as princessy as Orihime means.

ChronoMagus

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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2006, 09:21:57 am »
The translation is essential... I mean if they left it Magus as Mao, some guy would think "Chinese Communist Leader!"  And then people's perspective about Magus would completely change... Remembering that this was designed for America, and America's perspective on communism really bad.  Mao would appear as some evil dictator who enslaves his people and forces them to do hard labor to America, and that is not really the true Magus.
But seriously... a Grandleon makes a lot more sense than a Masamune...  I mean some people would go, "Grand, that means big!  It makes sense, cuz the Grandleon is a big sword!"

Namara

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« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2006, 10:39:30 am »
Changing of names is inevitable.  They actually did a pretty good job with translating the japanese names to be more meaningful to us Americans.  I like using DBZ as an example.  If you haven't noticed, the saiyen names sound like vetables.  Just look at Kakarot.  Sounds a lot like carot doesn't it?  Vegeta is also close to vegetable.  They changed the names when they translated so that the english names has the same exact play on words that was apparant in Japan.  The name change of the Grandleon to the Masamune makes no sense to me though, but maybe they intentionally didn't want anything as obvious as association grand with a broad sword.

Darth Mongoose

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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2006, 08:58:57 pm »
What I meant was, if they'd left him called 'Kaeru' rather than translating it to the english for 'Kaeru', 'Frog', hardly anybody would understand why he was called that because most people don't speak Japanese. Since Frog isn't Glenn's real name, just something he's calling himself because he feels he's lost his true self, it would be a bit wierd to the English speaking audience if his fake name sounded just like some random Japanese name, but some translations of things do stuff like this, assuming that keeping the Japanese name is best even if it won't make sense to the player.

Magus' name would actually be translated as Maou, but if you say that in English, it doesn't have a particularly pleasing or imposing sound to it. Plus the meaning of the name is lost. 'Magus' has a much stronger sound and keeps relatively close the original 'feel' of the name.

Discoman

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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2006, 07:28:23 am »
In the English version...
 Medina- in real life it is "the city of the prophet" a holy place of the Muslim relgion. In the game it's the home of the Mystics. The 'Mystic' name could be tied to one of the 3 major factions of the muslim relgion, The Sufi. Who were saw as Mystics with Magical power and meditated all day.
  Cyrus- A Persian emperor, I don't remember much but I do remember he conquered and kicked some ass.
   The Zeal family- Well in the English language Zeal is "Enthusiastic devotion to a cause, ideal, or goal and tireless diligence in its furtherance"
 It think this describes Queen Zeal and Magus well. That's all that comes to mind right now.

ChronoMagus

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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2006, 06:39:52 pm »
Magus - Zorastrian Priest
Names of Gurus - Arguably based on the "names" of the wise men in the Bible... (this has been refuted by some and still lots of people refuse to accept it)
Battle of Cyrus and Magus - Possible allusion to battle between Shah Koorosh of Pars (Emperor Cyrus of Persia) and the high Median Magi order.  Note that in history Cyrus did win this battle, and even after he won the Magi remained as a major influencial force in the Persian court.

CyberSarkany

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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2006, 06:46:37 pm »
About the Guru's names:
I think:
1st: It was stated that no event of CT/RD/CC was based on the bible.
2nd: No name of wise men is mentioned in the bible, nor that it were exactly 3.
3rd: They had different names in the japanes version

Lord_Magus

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« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2006, 01:22:17 pm »
well, hello, Im new here, I just found this amazing site and I want to take part in it...

well, none answer about Ozzie, Flea and Slash, and I bet most people knows about it, but those are the names of the Black Sabath singer (Ozzy Osborn), the bass player of Red Hot Chilli Peppers and the guitar player of Guns 'n' Roses, I dont think these are the same names for the jap version, soy it must be some comic realife for the game. If you already know this, well....

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2006, 04:31:18 pm »
Quote from: Darth Mongoose
Magus' name would actually be translated as Maou, but if you say that in English, it doesn't have a particularly pleasing or imposing sound to it. Plus the meaning of the name is lost. 'Magus' has a much stronger sound and keeps relatively close the original 'feel' of the name.


Exactly. It's all about what the name implies. Purists who say 'the original must be kept' because they know the language are being a little arrogant, actually. They know it, they like it, and think it must be kept so for everyone, but fail to realise that the what is important in a name, a word, and a line of words, is the effect they bring across. Now, an identical phrase in two cultures can be vastly different in meaning: praise in one can be insult in another. As such, to leave it the same for both cultures is removing the most important aspect: the meaning. If one were to leave the name 'Maou', what you've got is a shell of a thing - the meaning has been left behind.

You're absolutely right in what you're saying. What's important in a word or name is the mental image it brings across. To English speakers, Maou is nothing. It's a name. It's M-A-O-U, and nothing more. Magus, on the other hand, is historically grounded in the culture to mean a sorcerer. The meaning has been transferred. So that's what it comes down to: do you wish to transfer a shell, or a meaning? Purists are usually for the former, wheras the rest are for the latter.

Now, you must remember, I'm a bit prone to being purist myself in several matters, so I know how it feels to want to keep the original. In such things as Lord of the Rings, for example, I could point out various aspects of the movie that were changed going from the Tolkien sub-culture to the more wide-based movie-watching culture. To return the Elves at Helm's Deep; to make Faramir indecisive; to make Legolas' hair gold. Well, the purist in me rebels at these things. The Last Alliance was just that; the Elves of Lothlorien had their own borders to defend during the war; Faramir was not tempted by the ring at all; and Legolas... the more knowledgeable of fans would know him to be, with a high degree of probability, a Telerian elf, and that's dark-haired - he would not have gold hair unless there was some Vanyar blood in him. But on the flip-side, when watching the movies, I considered... is this really that relevant? Does it really matter so greatly? The meaning has been conveyed, so do I care? In the end, it worked. For a second thing, there's Homer. Now, Troy for the most part split with the Iliad, yet still professed to be based on it. Agamemnon was not power-hungery; Menelaos was by no means boorish; Hektor was a bit of a coward; Akhilleus was far more thoughtful and never loved Briseis; Aias did not die there; and the number of heroes, from Diomedes to Sarpedon, that were removed is staggering. You see, even by the way I write those names, I've got a purist streak. But the fact is... yes, I would have liked the movie to be more exact to the Iliad (which, actually, story-wise, it wasn't at all: it began too early, and ended too late, and barely focussed at all on the main purpose of the epic, which was the anger of Akhilleus.) But for a movie-going audience... it wouldn't have worked right. There are certain admissions that must be made (though, even to this day... I loved the armour in Troy, but so wished they had kept the chariot race from the epic in it - that would have been a thing to see!) Moreover, just for Greek things in general... who says Alexandros for Alexander? Or Platon for Plato? It's be stupid to be overzealous in the applying of the actual names.

Anyway, though, the point is, not everything translates over rightly, and even in the West things are changed. It's even more so in things across such varied cultures.

Radical_Dreamer

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« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2006, 06:16:41 pm »
If I recal, isn't using Plato or Platon at all already incorrect, in that that was not the name of the student of Socrates to which we refer? My copy of The Republic doesn't have much in the way of an answer to this. I really need to finish that book.