Another ol' Lavos Theory

[Paradox]

How do we know that the process of apocalypse was an instantaneous one?
It may have degenerated further and further until the we meet the people of 2300 and the plight they were in.

Presuming lavos came out of the core, or even the outer mantle, he still would have had ten kilometers of crust to break through. This would esentially meant that he WOULD be covered in dirt or, if said dirt had burnt to a cinder, volcanic ash. Both of these things are fertile (the ash amazingly so) and would facilitate the growth of trees.


For now, let us accept the gradual degeneration theory. If in the first hundred years or two hundred years, the earth was slightly hospitable (we assume it was because the people still had some food left.) trees would have grown on death peak. That is how trees miraculously got on there. Only a certain species of tree, however, was hardy and deep rooted enough to withstand the great winds after death. All the rest would died, been uprooted, and blown off the the mountain.

Exactly. And then from that point what happens? Those trees sprout seeds; those seeds grow into new trees. New life forms begin to develop in sync with the trees. Symbiotic creatures like mushrooms and insects that spread this new fertile life.

Now, consider that Lavos is big. REALLY big. I mean you just won’t believe how ghastly, mind bogglingly big he is... and so on. (CURSE YOU HITCHHIKERS GUIDE infecting my brain). We've established there’s still weather patterns to the planet, tidal movements, and life. The fertile substance (ash, soil, ect) is spread and new life forms in those areas. Now energy is never 'gone'. It just moves and changes. Since the energy of the planet went into feeding Lavos and his spawns it's now in them, which will one day fly away to new planets (they grow up so fast...). The energy that’s left cycles and BOOM! We've got a planet that, despite not having the 'grandness' of it's prior state with all it's fancy green stuff and sentient lifeforms (thinks it's so great... grumble grumble), it's alive and working in the lifecycle a worldwide ecosystem should, just with diminished resources.

The question is then what happens after that. Does the planet just stay in that state for the next god knows how long until everything and anything is sucked into our favorite point of least temporal resistance? Maybe. Maybe some kind of space rock falls on our planet containing spore like organisms that thrive in this new environment? Think it's crazy? Yeah well the planets energy was o' so recently sucked up by an outer galactic tick, so get used to the nearly impossible. All I’m saying is I really don’t believe the planet just dies after that point along with everything and anything on it. I believe that, if not in a diminished state, life goes on in a new form.

[AuraTwilight]

Exactly. And then from that point what happens? Those trees sprout seeds; those seeds grow into new trees. New life forms begin to develop in sync with the trees. Symbiotic creatures like mushrooms and insects that spread this new fertile life.

No, because after a few hundred years, any resources left to sustain life are exhausted. The trees are the end of the cycle, except for any bacteria or fungi that will desperately feed off the remains.

Now energy is never 'gone'. It just moves and changes. Since the energy of the planet went into feeding Lavos and his spawns it's now in them, which will one day fly away to new planets (they grow up so fast...). The energy that’s left cycles and BOOM! We've got a planet that, despite not having the 'grandness' of it's prior state with all it's fancy green stuff and sentient lifeforms (thinks it's so great... grumble grumble), it's alive and working in the lifecycle a worldwide ecosystem should, just with diminished resources.

Problem is, in real life, energy isn't recyclable. It changes state, but usually stops in the form of heat or some other unusable form, and hovers around in space until the Second Law of Thermodynamics comes to it's climax and the universe suffers Heat Death.

[ChronoMagus]

The planet we are talking about is dying if not dead... the sun is completely blacked out, those trees that still exist are from earilier times.  The creatures alive are scavengers... The only sign of recovery is the fact that somehow the seeds sprouted...

[Namara]

I have a few words to say about this theory

1. The trees can't 'suck up' all the energy left because energy can't be created or destroyed.  The trees would use it, the fungi would decompose it, and more trees would suck up the same nutrients.  It's doubtful that the planet would be as fertile ever again because Lavos and his spawn got most of it, but there's probably enough left to keep a continuous cycle going, though rather small

2. Since we're talking about energy usage and trees being the main living thing to survive, can we asume that Lavos will keep all of the energy he ate up inside of him forever?  I mean a giant tick-like parasite has to take a dump sometime, doesn't he?  Obviously a lot of the energy would be lost forever to the spawn to go to different worlds, but unless Lavos plans on shooting himself back into space to dump his load on another planet, the planet would eventually get all the nutrients back for at least fertile plant growth.  I'm guessing that by 2300 he's nearing the end of his life cycle, so he would at least leave a corpse.  He probably spent a lot of his stored energy making his babies, so he most likely doesn't have enough energy to go back into space so as not to leave a corpse on the planet.  It's entirely possible that'd he'd do it, but it doesn't seem like the logical path.

[Paradox]

I have a few words to say about this theory

1. The trees can't 'suck up' all the energy left because energy can't be created or destroyed.  The trees would use it, the fungi would decompose it, and more trees would suck up the same nutrients.  It's doubtful that the planet would be as fertile ever again because Lavos and his spawn got most of it, but there's probably enough left to keep a continuous cycle going, though rather small

2. Since we're talking about energy usage and trees being the main living thing to survive, can we asume that Lavos will keep all of the energy he ate up inside of him forever?  I mean a giant tick-like parasite has to take a dump sometime, doesn't he?  Obviously a lot of the energy would be lost forever to the spawn to go to different worlds, but unless Lavos plans on shooting himself back into space to dump his load on another planet, the planet would eventually get all the nutrients back for at least fertile plant growth.  I'm guessing that by 2300 he's nearing the end of his life cycle, so he would at least leave a corpse.  He probably spent a lot of his stored energy making his babies, so he most likely doesn't have enough energy to go back into space so as not to leave a corpse on the planet.  It's entirely possible that'd he'd do it, but it doesn't seem like the logical path.

THANK YOU >_< Okay, maybe I'm too much of an optimist, I'll admit it. It just seems to me though far too many people are into the idea of the planet just spiraling into decay and eventual cold black death. Cuh-mon! I don't even think the creators of the game wanted that! The whole scene (scenes if you count the second less climactic sprout) with the seeds was to show that there -is- a future! Just a very slow, small, and maybe depressing one where every bit of nutrients and every bit of life is precious.

The planet we are talking about is dying if not dead... the sun is completely blacked out, those trees that still exist are from earilier times. The creatures alive are scavengers... The only sign of recovery is the fact that somehow the seeds sprouted...

Okay, contradictory there... if the sun is completely "blocked out" then it'd be impossible for the seeds to sprout. No sunlight = no plantlike life. Plus, those trees can't have existed from "earlier times" unless there was a constant level of nourishment for them for the good 300-400 years they're alive. That is assuming, if they're from earlier times, they survived Lavos strike. And that of course is going against the idea that Death Peak -is- Lavos, another debated theory, which means it'd be imposible for those trees to pre-date the day of Lavos.

[Chrono'99]

The sun isn't totally blacked out. If it would be totally blocked, the earth would be in total darkness, and it just isn't the case (though it might be if you use an old emulator that doesn't show transparency ). Moreover, you can clearly see a sunlight in the Sun Keep.

[SilentMartyr]

THANK YOU[/b] [/i]>_< Okay, maybe I'm too much of an optimist, I'll admit it. It just seems to me though far too many people are into the idea of the planet just spiraling into decay and eventual cold black death. Cuh-mon! I don't even think the creators of the game wanted that! The whole scene (scenes if you count the second less climactic sprout) with the seeds was to show that there -is- a future! Just a very slow, small, and maybe depressing one where every bit of nutrients and every bit of life is precious.

You have seen the bad ending right? You know where Lavos attacks and the entire planet turns grey? That's where we got that idea.  

[AuraTwilight]

1. The trees can't 'suck up' all the energy left because energy can't be created or destroyed. The trees would use it, the fungi would decompose it, and more trees would suck up the same nutrients. It's doubtful that the planet would be as fertile ever again because Lavos and his spawn got most of it, but there's probably enough left to keep a continuous cycle going, though rather small

Nutrients aren't energy. They're two seperate things. Energy could be exhausted and lost in the process of bodily functions, and then those nutrients would lose their worth.

2. Since we're talking about energy usage and trees being the main living thing to survive, can we asume that Lavos will keep all of the energy he ate up inside of him forever? I mean a giant tick-like parasite has to take a dump sometime, doesn't he? Obviously a lot of the energy would be lost forever to the spawn to go to different worlds, but unless Lavos plans on shooting himself back into space to dump his load on another planet, the planet would eventually get all the nutrients back for at least fertile plant growth. I'm guessing that by 2300 he's nearing the end of his life cycle, so he would at least leave a corpse. He probably spent a lot of his stored energy making his babies, so he most likely doesn't have enough energy to go back into space so as not to leave a corpse on the planet. It's entirely possible that'd he'd do it, but it doesn't seem like the logical path.

Indeed, but there could be possibilities around this, like how Lavos' waste products aren't usable in ANY form, or that his body experienced massive mitosis into the race of Lavos Spawns that went off to other planets.

THANK YOU >_< Okay, maybe I'm too much of an optimist, I'll admit it. It just seems to me though far too many people are into the idea of the planet just spiraling into decay and eventual cold black death. Cuh-mon! I don't even think the creators of the game wanted that! The whole scene (scenes if you count the second less climactic sprout) with the seeds was to show that there -is- a future! Just a very slow, small, and maybe depressing one where every bit of nutrients and every bit of life is precious.

Then how come the ENTIRE CT fanbase -Except you- come to the conclusion that this is the end? Especially when the year 1999 is referred to as the Apocalypse? Even still, that "hopeful future" symbolism doesn't mean anything, because the REST of the game promotes the idea that a hopeful future can only come by making their PRESENT better, instead of waiting to make it better when things get tough (Your idea). Also, the whole thing with the Planet/Entity's life flashing through it's eyes as it's DYING.

[ChronoMagus]

Point of CT is to fix the future you must take action...

And for all you who say Lavos gives off energy eventually... he did.  It was called Apocalypse 1999 AD.  Everyone got blown up.  Convert planet's energy to massive heat energy and use it to destroy practically all life.  Its still releasing heat.
Then energy gets used to make spawn and send spawn to take out other planets...
The fact is there is still energy in the system... but the system is no longer the planet... it is Lavos and his Spawn.

[GrayLensman]

1. The trees can't 'suck up' all the energy left because energy can't be created or destroyed. The trees would use it, the fungi would decompose it, and more trees would suck up the same nutrients. It's doubtful that the planet would be as fertile ever again because Lavos and his spawn got most of it, but there's probably enough left to keep a continuous cycle going, though rather small

Nutrients aren't energy. They're two separate things. Energy could be exhausted and lost in the process of bodily functions, and then those nutrients would lose their worth.

I think there is a bit of confusion here.  In all likelihood, Lavos was draining the spiritual or magical energy of the planet.  I don't think this is directly related to the persistence of plant life.

Plants need sunlight, water and nutrients to grow.  These things were lacking in 2300 AD due to the continued, catastrophic destruction of the planet's ecosystems by Lavos.  The only living things left on the surface are mutants.  The destruction in 1999 AD was only to provide the necessary environment for Lavos's spawn to grow.  The Lavos spawn will eventually consume all the planet's remaining resources as they mature.

[Namara]

Then how come the ENTIRE CT fanbase -Except you- come to the conclusion that this is the end? Especially when the year 1999 is referred to as the Apocalypse? Even still, that "hopeful future" symbolism doesn't mean anything, because the REST of the game promotes the idea that a hopeful future can only come by making their PRESENT better, instead of waiting to make it better when things get tough (Your idea). Also, the whole thing with the Planet/Entity's life flashing through it's eyes as it's DYING.

The game itself promoted the idea of the planet coming back to life.  In both 12000 BC and 2300 AD, there is a sprout of a new plant.  The one in 12000BC showed how even after the Zeal disaster the planet managed to continue to live and produce living things.  Its pretty much the same scenario in 2300AD.  If you go back and talk to the people in the domes later on in the game when you don't necessarily have to, you'll see that their condition was improving (if ever so slightly) because the seeds sprouted and gave the people hope that the planet could come back to life.  The general plotline of the game states that to save the future one must save the past, yet at the same time it emphasizes that the planet could continue to live even after the most dire circumstances.  So we're both right.

[Paradox]

Then how come the ENTIRE CT fanbase -Except you- come to the conclusion that this is the end? Especially when the year 1999 is referred to as the Apocalypse? Even still, that "hopeful future" symbolism doesn't mean anything, because the REST of the game promotes the idea that a hopeful future can only come by making their PRESENT better, instead of waiting to make it better when things get tough (Your idea). Also, the whole thing with the Planet/Entity's life flashing through it's eyes as it's DYING.

The game itself promoted the idea of the planet coming back to life.  In both 12000 BC and 2300 AD, there is a sprout of a new plant.  The one in 12000BC showed how even after the Zeal disaster the planet managed to continue to live and produce living things.  Its pretty much the same scenario in 2300AD.  If you go back and talk to the people in the domes later on in the game when you don't necessarily have to, you'll see that their condition was improving (if ever so slightly) because the seeds sprouted and gave the people hope that the planet could come back to life.  The general plotline of the game states that to save the future one must save the past, yet at the same time it emphasizes that the planet could continue to live even after the most dire circumstances.  So we're both right.

... Eh, I could go with that. Can't we all just get along? As I said in a previous post, don't know how far back (Sheesh, I really argued this one) I said it can go either way. I can see how the remaining energy could just be there for the spawns to feed on untill they mature to leech off a new world, and I can see how the planets "life flashing before its (eyes?)" is a dead giveaway for the planets death and all those valid points given. I'm not abandoning my optimistic view, I just like the idea of leaving it as a highly debatable topic really leaning twards the planet fizzlin' out. Plus, I want to pitch out more theories that'll stir up some trouble   On with the show!

[SilentMartyr]

Then how come the ENTIRE CT fanbase -Except you- come to the conclusion that this is the end? Especially when the year 1999 is referred to as the Apocalypse? Even still, that "hopeful future" symbolism doesn't mean anything, because the REST of the game promotes the idea that a hopeful future can only come by making their PRESENT better, instead of waiting to make it better when things get tough (Your idea). Also, the whole thing with the Planet/Entity's life flashing through it's eyes as it's DYING.

The game itself promoted the idea of the planet coming back to life.  In both 12000 BC and 2300 AD, there is a sprout of a new plant.  The one in 12000BC showed how even after the Zeal disaster the planet managed to continue to live and produce living things.  Its pretty much the same scenario in 2300AD.  If you go back and talk to the people in the domes later on in the game when you don't necessarily have to, you'll see that their condition was improving (if ever so slightly) because the seeds sprouted and gave the people hope that the planet could come back to life.  The general plotline of the game states that to save the future one must save the past, yet at the same time it emphasizes that the planet could continue to live even after the most dire circumstances.  So we're both right.

Except that in 12000 Lavos only destroyed the Zeal Islands, and there was a regrowth due to the end of an ice age. In 1999 the environment was so polluted that in 2300 the group is hurt when they walk outside. If humans are hurt from walking around in it I couldn't imagine how plants could survive and grow in the same environment.

[Zaperking]

Then how come the ENTIRE CT fanbase -Except you- come to the conclusion that this is the end? Especially when the year 1999 is referred to as the Apocalypse? Even still, that "hopeful future" symbolism doesn't mean anything, because the REST of the game promotes the idea that a hopeful future can only come by making their PRESENT better, instead of waiting to make it better when things get tough (Your idea). Also, the whole thing with the Planet/Entity's life flashing through it's eyes as it's DYING.

The game itself promoted the idea of the planet coming back to life.  In both 12000 BC and 2300 AD, there is a sprout of a new plant.  The one in 12000BC showed how even after the Zeal disaster the planet managed to continue to live and produce living things.  Its pretty much the same scenario in 2300AD.  If you go back and talk to the people in the domes later on in the game when you don't necessarily have to, you'll see that their condition was improving (if ever so slightly) because the seeds sprouted and gave the people hope that the planet could come back to life.  The general plotline of the game states that to save the future one must save the past, yet at the same time it emphasizes that the planet could continue to live even after the most dire circumstances.  So we're both right.

Except that in 12000 Lavos only destroyed the Zeal Islands, and there was a regrowth due to the end of an ice age. In 1999 the environment was so polluted that in 2300 the group is hurt when they walk outside. If humans are hurt from walking around in it I couldn't imagine how plants could survive and grow in the same environment.

They were hurt when they walked outside?

[GrayLensman]

They were hurt when they walked outside?

No, that's a myth.  However, the air does look heavily polluted.