Conservation of Time Theorum... reliable?

[DeweyisOverrated]

Something that's always bothered me about some games is the ability to decipher what is actually meant to be part of the game (like storywise), or meant to be somewhat of a joke, seperate from the game.

For example, I consider most easter eggs in games to be "jokes", and to not be considered part of the storyline, etc.  My best example would have to be in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight.  I think it's in the 5th level, if you jump in the sewers and swim the entire way, a door will open with that weird Lucas Art's rabbit mascot, which will run around and kill peple for you.  Obviously, not meant to be part of the game.

Other things, however, aren't as clear.  And, since this is a Chrono forum, this topic refers to if the "Conservation of Time" theorum is valid, or part of a more-subtle joke.

OLD MAN: When 4 or more beings step
   into a time warp, the Conservation
   of Time theorem states that they
   will turn up...

   ...at the space-time coordinates of
   least resistance.
   Here.

and

You can visit your friends whenever
   you wish! But you can never travel in
   groups greater than 3...

This is what Gaspar says when you step into the End of Time for the first time.  Now, it sounds like a very valid theory, but I have to bring its validty into question for a couple reasons.

1) What defines how big a "being" has to be?  I mean, technically, wouldn't I dunno, Lucca have maybe a couple bacterium on her?  By that definition, she would appear there simply by going into a time portal by herself, no?  Kind of a push, but I'm working towards the bigger points here.

2) Robo technically isn't a "being", right?  He's a robot.  Not senitent, or "living", so why would that throw them to the EoT?  Lucca has plenty of Machinery on her at previous points (think gadgets, guns, etc), those didn't throw them anywhere funky (except other random time periods).

3) Probably the biggest thing that throws the validity into question, in my opinion.  Was this just a cop-out to explain why you only get three party members, instead of 4?  It seems like if you would follow to a TRUE story of Chrono Trigger, this would never exist, because obviously in a say, novel, or movie version, you're not going to have one (or more) people staying there at all times.

Obviously, in reference to #3, I give them credit for coming up with something more clever than the traditional explanation for party switching (think cellphone, PDA, in FFVII, for example).  However, due to the fact that this falls into game engine mechanics, I'm wondering if we shoudl really consider this theory legitimate, or maybe just a very subtle joke.

Thoughts?

Edit: added a quote.[/quote]

[Lordchander]

Im going to go with number 3.

I mean theres just not really any other explanation for it.

[Legend of the Past]

Hmm, 3 wasn't an answer, it was a question.

Anyway, I think they wanted to make that 'the 3 party member' which we've seen in many games before and since. I think a being is someone with the ability and perhaps will to move through time. Crono and Marle were first thrown into the Time Gate. After that, it was all will. But then again, we've seen other Gates which can carry much more than 3 individuals, like the Time Crash or Lavos' gate it Magus' fort.

[Zaperking]

Hmm, 3 wasn't an answer, it was a question.

Anyway, I think they wanted to make that 'the 3 party member' which we've seen in many games before and since. I think a being is someone with the ability and perhaps will to move through time. Crono and Marle were first thrown into the Time Gate. After that, it was all will. But then again, we've seen other Gates which can carry much more than 3 individuals, like the Time Crash or Lavos' gate it Magus' fort.

In a way, I only think the 3 people per gate thing is only for the battle system.

I myself believe that all 7 members fought Lavos, just that they made the battle system that way.

Also, Lavos' gate at the fort was weird since Magus got pushed into one timeline, whilst the other 3 went to another, yet from the same gate.

[Chrono'99]

The Time Crash and the stuff in Magus' fort weren't normal (blue or red) Gates though. They were huge, black temporal distortions. The Magus one looked kinda like a Gate, but a very huge one with vortex and lightning, and the Time Crash seemed more like a Dark Bomb or a black Luminaire.

[Legend of the Past]

When do we see the Time Crash?

Well, that just shows there's more than one type of Gate, showing the Theorem doesn't apply for every gate... Maybe the Red Gate can only provide passage for one person. So, it applies for just one type of gate, or more.

Ah, and 'it's the battle system' doesn't really strike my as a good explanation plot-wise. >_>

[DeweyisOverrated]

We see the Time Crash in one of the FMV's in CC.

I know some people are very critical of it, but I'm a big follower oft he Aerith-Rule, wherein you can't really trust that what's going on in battle-systems is trustable.  I think the three-party member rule, and therefore the CoT Theorum, would almost be an offshoot of this.

[Sentenal]

But the CoT explination isn't a gameplay thing, although it does explain an aspect of gameplay.  That was a line of dialogue explaining something to the group.  If were going to call that into question, we might as well call everything that Gaspar says into question.

[AuraTwilight]

What defines how big a "being" has to be? I mean, technically, wouldn't I dunno, Lucca have maybe a couple bacterium on her? By that definition, she would appear there simply by going into a time portal by herself, no? Kind of a push, but I'm working towards the bigger points here.

It might have to be a being with a more-or-less human intelligence or higher, or otherwise have some kind of soul.

Robo technically isn't a "being", right? He's a robot. Not senitent, or "living", so why would that throw them to the EoT? Lucca has plenty of Machinery on her at previous points (think gadgets, guns, etc), those didn't throw them anywhere funky (except other random time periods).

Robo IS sentient. He can make his own descisions and have his own opinions. Again, Robo has a soul, so he would count as a being.

Probably the biggest thing that throws the validity into question, in my opinion. Was this just a cop-out to explain why you only get three party members, instead of 4? It seems like if you would follow to a TRUE story of Chrono Trigger, this would never exist, because obviously in a say, novel, or movie version, you're not going to have one (or more) people staying there at all times.

This is what I always figured. At the very least, couldn't they just all go to the same time period in groups of three and meet up on the other side? And of course, the campfire scene. I really doubt they summoned their friends out of the End of Time to roast some smores.

I always felt that the Conservation of Time theory was just a game mechanics thing.

[Mystik3eb]

I'm going for Number 3, for the same reasons Dewey brought up in the first post...kinda hard to judge that. And I do like that much more than other games.

...but couldn't they just go through the gates three at a time and still all travel together? -_-

[Zaperking]

I'm going for Number 3, for the same reasons Dewey brought up in the first post...kinda hard to judge that. And I do like that much more than other games.

...but couldn't they just go through the gates three at a time and still all travel together? -_-

Ofcourse, though I still say that it's kind of only done for the battle system.
I mean, if there even is a time convention theorm, how about if all 7 had a gate key, one goes in, gate closes, gate opens, next person gets in, gate closes, gate opens and so on till the last person gets in and gate closes. That works too, but seems even worse than 3 or more people going into a gate. and come on, if a gate stays open, then people can cross over as long as it lasts.

[Legend of the Past]

Ah, Zaper answered the question: You need a Gate Key to open Gates, meaning that if only three can pass, only those three can have the Gate Key. The entire party coulden't possibly pass through the gate.

[Zaperking]

Ah, Zaper answered the question: You need a Gate Key to open Gates, meaning that if only three can pass, only those three can have the Gate Key. The entire party coulden't possibly pass through the gate.

Not really. I don't believe that the pillars of light need a gate key, since otherwise other people who have ended up in the EoT wouldn't be able to get back.
Anyway, I don't remember if the Epoch flew when the Robo side quest was done, but if it wasn't, then how the hell did all 3 get there. O yeah, they open the gate, and give it to the people who aren't passing through. Simple since the gate closes by itself.

[Chrono'99]

Not really. I don't believe that the pillars of light need a gate key, since otherwise other people who have ended up in the EoT wouldn't be able to get back.

If you're refering to the quote by Gaspar about guests in the EoT, I always thought he was just speaking about the game developers. Technically, they were in the End of Time before the party comes. And logically, if you come in the EoT sooner than expected by the storyline (by seeing the Dream Project Ending), you see those guests around Gaspar (in that ending, the sprites that look like characters from the game are the developers, but Gaspar is still Gaspar the game character).

[Legend of the Past]

Hehe, never saw it that way, Chrono. That's a good explanation, I think.